selcYc wrote:

doesn't this part use 3/4? no need to use many red lines.

Bonsai wrote:

selcYc wrote:

doesn't this part use 3/4? no need to use many red lines.

Just look at what those red lines do exactly, the first one is changing the time signature from the previous 4/4 to 6/4, and for the others you gotta listen to it slowed down and you'll hear that all notes except the major downbeats are delayed by one 1/8-beat, some diffs map 1/3s there which would be impossible to snap without those timing sections that are resetting the offset back and forth by 1/8.

Ranking Criteria wrote:

When perfectly overlapping two slider bodies, the first slider must be fully faded out before the second slider is fully faded in.

Shyotamaze wrote:

on the Infinite diff
01:16:060 (3,3) - 01:34:345 (3,1) - Pretty sure it's unrankable

Ranking Criteria wrote:

When perfectly overlapping two slider bodies, the first slider must be fully faded out before the second slider is fully faded in.

Timorisu wrote:

no

Kaifin wrote:

placeholder this will be a mod in a couple hours

Kaifin wrote:

placeholder this will be a mod in a couple hours

Timorisu wrote:

no

yes

this is going to be a heavy mod so don't be alarmed or overly defensive just because your map was qualified, i'll point out some small nazi things as well as issues I feel are major fundamental problems with the diffs so hopefully it will be helpful

BEGINNER

• 01:13:203 (4,1) - blanket, be sure to fix the positioning of 01:16:631 (3) - when you fix this
  SPOILER

  

1. 01:29:203 (2,3) - i could see this flow being a bit confusing to the new player because the target audience of this map (seeing as its like -1 stars) has a hard time distinguishing between slider heads/slider ends but there might be so much time in between the beats which might make this misleading flow not really matter: your thoughts? it's easy enough to fix the pattern to be as non confusing as possible, besides: 01:28:060 (1,2,3) - isn't even and you're going for the whole parallel thing so its off anyways, and the flow of the pattern itself really isn't all that great to begin with i think youre largely over-dramatizing how bad newcomers to this game are at reading simple patterns like this. sure, mistakenly hitting a sliderend instead of a sliderhead happens on time to time, but a basic and simple pattern like this should not create any problems by itself regarding this. furthermore players who dont have a concept of "flow"
   yet wouldnt even expect that a more common and "easier" pattern would have the third slider ctrl+g'd. also this pattern is much much easier to read than,
   say, 01:33:774 (2,3,4) - since this pattern has varying placement; you go up/sideways from the previous slidertail for the first few objects and the sideways motion slowly shifts into a downwards motion, ending in the player having to move their cursor downwards and being confronted with a slider which has an overlapping point with a previous one, which ALSO moves in a completely different direction than the previous three sliders did. if you dont see a problem with this pattern there should be no reason for you to be worried about the former pattern you've pointed out

BASIC

1. 00:19:488 (3,4,1,2,3) - your grid here gets messed up because 00:20:345 (4,1,2) - is not straight
2. 00:28:345 (2,3) - blanket
   SPOILER

   
3. 00:32:060 (1,2) - blanket (top left side)
   SPOILER

   
4. 00:41:203 (1) - DS, it's not for emphasis cause you don't do it anywhere else in the map so please don't say that there are quite a few objects which dont perfectly fit into distance snap; 00:27:488 (1) - 00:32:060 (1) - 00:41:203 (1) - 00:44:631 (2) - 01:00:060 (1) - , a 1.1 difference is not something which would make a player at this level instantly miss. you're over-dramatizing how bad players are at this game again
5. 01:14:345 (1,2) - why are the curve of these two sliders different? ctrl g the first one twice to snap the slider tick to make them the same shaping, that's a good tool for making your sliders even easily you seem like should know that osu sometimes messes up object/node placements by itself which is probably what happened here
6. 01:31:488 (2,3,4) - pretty small complaint but this would look a lot better if the angle of 01:32:060 (3,4) - was the same angle as 01:31:488 (2) - which it currently is not they are; https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7917349
7. 01:56:631 (1,1,2) - wouldn't putting the circle on the other end look a lot better so that it doesn't have the weird not blanket interaction with 01:56:631 (1) - ? like this no
   SPOILER

   

NOVICE

1. so taking a look at this spread of diffs, there is clickable 1/2 in your Normal at 210 bpm? this spread is so confusing, you go from bare minimum 1/1 rhythm to 1/1 spam to near constant 1/2? how can a spread with this many diffs do such a poor job of actually functioning like a spread is supposed to, this map is an UNDERWEIGHTED 2 stars which is the first time i've ever seen that to be honest i mean yes, this is a normal diff with clickable 1/2 beats mapped at 210 bpm because this is a progression difficulty spread of a song at 210 bpm. the spread used to go 4/1 2/1 1/1 1/2 1/4 with slightly more progression towards the next beat divisor by introducing some patterns on a higher snap. in this whole diff i counted the player having to click 1/2 beats 10 times, which averages out to one 1/2 pattern every 11 seconds. furthermore many of these patterns aren't even triples but rather two objects after a slider or a circle inbetween two sliders. again, this diff spread is not based on star progression but on progressively introducing new beat snaps by adding some of them in the first place and making the previously uncommon snap more common in the following diff(s)
2. you can try to tell me this isn't a Normal, but what the hell else is it supposed to be? your spread how i see it is Beginner ---> Easy ---> Normal ----> Advanced ----> Hard -----> Hyper for the first 6 diffs it's a normal. look at the description. stop being so assumptious.
3. however, even if you don't want to get caught up on the specifics of whether this is a normal or advanced or whatever, the issue here is the spread + difficulty of this map relative to its place in the spread and its intended target audience
4. other than this glaring issue here are some blankets and other issues
5. 00:25:203 (1,3) - blanket
   SPOILER

   
6. 00:27:488 (1,2) + 00:29:774 (1,2) - blanket
   SPOILER

   
7. 00:37:631 (3) - DS???? breaking DS here makes this rhythm even more confusing for the player this is to keep in line with the previous 1/2 patterns which were either placed at 0.3 or 0.5 DS. you should've noticed that the 1/2 patterns only accelerate to 1.0 DS in the kiai times and only do this because they do not rely on the player still having to click three times-
8. 00:45:774 (1,3) - blanket thank u for this empty spoilerbox
   SPOILER
9. 01:18:917 (1) - since theres a 2/1 gap here it doesn't matter as much but i'm going to point out the DS anyways becasue you don't have any consistent special emphasis on this same sound when 01:23:488 (1) - comes so it is inconsistent to break DS here even if it is for your pattern i wonder why you would say that this "issue" has no relevance but still point it out? besides, this was cleared with bonsai irc and we agreed on this being a non-issue due to the 2/1 gap
10. 01:24:060 (2,3) - blanket
    SPOILER

    
11. 01:47:487 (4,1) - ????????????????? same spacing 1/2 as 1/1 in a low diff.... this is NOT a subjective complaint this is literally unreadable for the new player, ESPECIALLY considering that its a stack too which makes these twice as hard
12. 01:49:202 (4,1) - ^
13. 01:50:916 (4,1) - ^
14. 01:52:630 (4,1) - okay so i don't really care if you don't fix the blankets cause of pride, or you don't agree with my distance snap complaints because they're relatively minute, but if you take ONE thing from this mod PLEASE change these just to be distance snapped, this is literally unreadable for the new player and by the time new players would be able to read this, they'd be playing hards, this flow is difficult for even a hard difficulty
    
15. the ds is kind of fucked at the end but it makes sense for the slider art or whatever so doesn't really matter too much the ds looks messed up due to the reduced slider velocity but should actually be spaced like the previous objects. see 01:58:345 (1,2) - where it goes back to 1.00x slider velocity and how 01:56:631 (1,1,2) - make an evenly distance snapped triangle even though the game says they're snapped differently

no real complaints about AMETUER/INTERMEDIATE, other than why have 2 seperate difficulties when half of intermediate is litearl copy pasting from ametuer, you don't really need 2 diffs for the spread but hey more diffs more happy so its not really an issue just a note

ADVANCED

1. 00:10:345 - okay so this is kind of a general point, but what exactly are you doing with the rhythm varience from here to 00:27:345 - ? its the same rhythm the whole time but every single bar you use a new rhythm for it with seemingly no pattern or logic that i can see: just looking for an explanation to the logic behind it because both the rhythm and the objects used to convey the rhythm change on a bar by bar basis im doing what you said; variance.
   why should i use the same patterns over and over again when i can switch things up and make this section more comfortable to play?
2. 00:50:345 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - isn't this a pretty massive difficulty spike from the last diff, even taking the map on its own this is a huge spike and probably the hardest thing in the whole map, how did we go from triples last diff to an 8 note 1/4 slider rhythm when there wasn't even 1/4 sliders before this point in any of the difficulties, including this one, to me this just isn't fairly introduced in both the spread and this map on its own it's 1/2 clicking dude
3. 01:00:917 - there is a bunch of rhythms going on here and it just kind of seems lazy to me that you follow a simple 1/1 clicking rhythm with no complexity for 10 seconds in an uninteresting unchanging pattern: i can understand why but if you're using patterns like 00:50:345 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and then oversimplifying to this degree it's pretty ridiculous and bores the player to tears the spread actually goes from 1/1 + spinner to 1/1 to 1/2 with a side of 1/4 to tapping the full 1/2 to 1/4 but thank you for pointing that out again
4. 01:35:774 - you just don't follow the song here at all and make your own rhythm which i cannot discern, the beat that is the most important isn't clickable 01:36:060 - and the 1/2 spam just doesn't really follow the song, there should be 2 1/3 sliders as there is 6 1/3 notes prominent in the songs melody, here's an example of a better rhythm you could use that fits the song a lot closer 01:35:488 (3,1,2,4) - is the high pitched object and 01:36:203 (3) - is whatever you want to call that background noise. i simply tried avoiding two 1/3 sliders like there are in the other diffs for this part not to become too stale. also there definitely is a circle on 01:36:060 (2) - so i dont know what diff you're looking at but it seemingly is not the right one.
   SPOILER

   

EXHAUST

1. 00:23:488 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - what kind of shape are you trying to make here? 00:24:345 (6) - is uneven with it, as well as it doesn't make a straight line with 00:24:345 (6,7,8) - which kind of breaks your heavily structured aesthetic + consistency
2. here the kick slider pattern is fitting because it is well introduced before it happens in the map
   
   i like this diff

INFINITE

1. 00:16:917 (5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - this is where i begin to not understand your intention behind flow: flow like this is both incredibly uncomfortable to play and aesthetically unpleasing: let me explain exactly why through paint because i already know there is a lot of this flow coming up in the top difficulty so it would be best to get this explanation out now you're heavily over-dramatizing how players supposedly play this game; according to your explanation of how this pattern "does not have sufficient flow" you're making perfect lines inbetween the points which anchor right in the middle of each circle, implying normal users play as though they're an auto bot. if you'd anchor the point on 00:17:060 (6) - a little higher and then make the line towards 00:17:203 (1) - a little more right leaning so it progresses evenly into the stream there are little to no problems at all, and this is probably how the majority of players play this game; simplified reading and acting on patterns, not trying to perfectly snap every note. well, most everyone besides azer.
   
2. here is your current pattern and how it flows: the pink line is the cursor movement and the red X's are where the player needs to stop to snap to reach the next note
   SPOILER

   
3. now, you may notice that there is a snap from 1 to 2 in the stream: this is because the angle is so uncomfortable that the player needs to physically snap to start the stream, which is super awkward feeling and all around isn't a good feeling unless it is emphasizing something in the music which to my ears, it is not
   
4. as for a solution, here is an example of a much friendlier flow you could use to avoid this disconnect, ESPECIALLY at this bpm the kind of flow you are using is both uncomfortable and seemingly random: here's the kind of flow that is a lot more comfortable and just feels a TON better for the player to play,
   with no snap to the first object of the stream needed like in the current flow because it follows the same circular motion as the jump
   SPOILER

   
5. however, if your intended flow was to have a SHARP transition to the stream, theres another way to do that without uncomfortable flow! if that was your intention, here is a much more suitable option looks + flows a lot better, while still keeping the "punchy" flow you might have been looking for
   SPOILER

   
6. 00:32:631 (2,4) - still unrankably overlapped, it is easier to check this if you NC the 4 temporarily to see that it is already faded in while the 2 is ended, just move one of them a pixel for rankability
7. 00:52:917 - making this note a 1/2 slider would both improve the flow to the player by removing the awkward gap in the rhythm by having this huge space here, and also fit the song better as there is a faint note at 00:53:060 - that is other wise ignored: the song sounds too busy to just leave this 1/1 gap here and it doesn't really provide you with any special emphasis imo this is where subjectivity kicks in again; i think for this diff it is more appropriate to leave a gap there and pronounce the break in the high pitched sounds than it would be to fill the gap and make the progression into the following streams rather harsh
8. 00:54:917 (1,2,3) - blanket, just pointing it out cause it's obvious due to the pattern
   SPOILER

   
9. 01:32:203 (5,6,7,8,9,1) - this flow is also quite uncomfortable for the player, the snap from 01:32:488 (9,1) - is such a weird angle and doesn't match either the flow of 1's slider body or the circular flow the map has been following up to this point i don't know how much more often i'm going to say this, bu you're being overly dramatic about the supposed way to play this game again; a linear sideways progression from 01:32:488 (9,1) - is definitely possible
10. 01:41:203 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - can you buff this spacing so it's not so much like the 1/4 spacing? very very easy to misread for seemingly no reason
11. 01:45:203 - it's super weird that you just stop mapping these notes here break > unnecessary filler

just going to focus on your diffs in this mod because it is long enough as is

HAVOC

1. usually i'm all for lower AR, but it seems kinda weird that this diff is ar 9.5 at 210 bpm with 1/3 vs 1/4 reading and dense rhythm, just a point
   i'm not even going to reply to this in detail because it's just you dismissing straighter patterns yet again. i've explained my reasoning for these above.
2. 00:29:631 (8,1,2) - motions like this are not sharp enough to avoid being too linear like 00:26:917 (1,2,3,4) - does: since this motion is so so linear its very uncomfortable for the player to play, especially at this high of BPM: the patterning is both uncomfortable and lacks any sort of real emphasis to distinguish any of the 3 notes as well, which are all vastly different sounds and should be emphasized as such
   
3. 00:32:060 (1,2,3) - what is this slider flow trying to do? the flow the player is following is the opposite of the direction of the slider, this would be 10000x more comfortable then what is currently there
   SPOILER

   
4. 00:36:560 (1) - this note does not exist: i understand what you're trying to do with the "woooosh" sound that comes but it simply just isn't there, maybe this overmapping is okay because of the sound? thats up to you and the BNs but this note clearly is not there and giving it a circle which means it is an acc judged object and is supposed to be tangible seems unfair to the player
   
5. 00:53:916 (1,2,3) - this linear flow is incredibly uncomfortable coming out of two curved streams , making the angles more sharp is the solution, even if you just slightly changed the placement of 3 it would be a nominal improvement, here is an example of how it could look if the angles were just sharper
   SPOILER

   
6. 00:55:488 - why simplify the rhythm here? its a 7 star map what is the harm in following the song to its maximum potential when this is an intense segment and is practically begging for interesting rhythms recovery break after shit hit the fan and before shit's going to hit the fan again
   
7. 01:19:774 (6,1) - why break circular flow in this awkward way here? it would be better if the slider was more angled, you use this 45 degree aesthetic all over the place so it wouldnt really be unfitting, i rotated it by 40 degrees in this screenshot, something like this strictly flow wise would be a big improvement but i honestly think the pattern itself is kind of inherently flawed so make of that what you will
   SPOILER

   
8. 01:22:917 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - the flaw in the flow with this 1/3 stream lies in the transition between 01:23:107 (3,4) - the linear movement makes it super uncomfortable for the player, having some more snap between the 2 parts of the stream would make it flow a TON better then it does rn, right now it just feels poorly handled/executed especially while playing
   
9. 01:24:631 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - this is an example of a much better 1/3 pattern because the snap between 01:24:821 (3,4) - is a lot more defined and clearer
   
10. 01:37:203 - why is the note not a 1/2 slider here like all the other times? if you want this note to have extra emphasis, making it a circle instead of a 1/2 slider does the exact opposite, you could space the last note apart from the stream and make it a slider if you wanted it to have more emphasis? i do not have made a single diff that has a 1/2 slider starting on 01:37:203 - and ending on 01:37:345 - and i will not.

overall, on top of everything i've mentioned in this mod, i still think this mapset needs a lot of work before ranking

things seem unpolished, unclean, the flow is questionable at best and you'll find from anyone who play tests this (as i've asked several of my friends AND can play the map myself) that is feels quite uncomfortable in its current state

trying to help with the mapset before it gets qualified again as not to mod a qualified map, good luck with your set and please take everything i've said into consideration instead of just dismissing it

- Yoshimaro - wrote:

(4.1*) ADVANCED: 00:50:345 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -

(5.73*) INFINITE: 00:50:345 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -

lol nice

Timorisu wrote:

it's 1/2 clicking dude

Sinnoh wrote:

Timorisu wrote:

it's 1/2 clicking dude

by that logic this can also be fine because it's just 1/2 clicking
screenshot
Instead of repeating what the pattern is, can you give a reason as to why it should remain what it is and that it's better than any alternative options that are available

what you didn't address about Yoshi's point was that he was saying that if it's playable on Advanced, then why isn't it harder on Infinite?

Antares- wrote:

01:20:345 (2) - i guess that sliderwhistle on ktg's diff was unintended

baocanhsat wrote:

01:00:060 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - on HAVOC
well idk but is this pattern doable normally w/ HR or do players have to do pixel aiming..

Timorisu wrote:

Hmm, I'll take this second dq as a chance then I guess. Will finish up my finals this week and report back with fixes some time later this week or next week. And if I'm alread being offered the chance to, I'll probably give INFINITE's kiai a makeover because the map honestly looks as dated as it is. Might change some minor stuff in EXHAUST's kiai too, not quite sure yet.

Also, if possible, I'd like for Leader and ktg to fix the snappings themselves since me diving into that would require changes that'd probably interfere with their respective mapping styles o/

Alternate post: "How to ruin a BNs and QATs score with one simple trick! Staff hate him!"
Sorry for all the trouble you two :L

ouranhshc wrote:

You need to change the snapping on your diffs for those section.

pishifat wrote:

the guys who repeatedly bubble popped and nominated this map must be pretty embarrassed by this point hahahaha

ha