I'm no fan of this
I found out how to do it properly though
Go to #6 in Qualified listing
Look at the time the Qualify post was made
Then qualify the map at that same time
Still, I think it's not the best way to do it

Why not make it a queue?
You put your "not-yet-qualified"-map in it, and it'll automatically qualify it after it's able to (with the cap)

baraatje123 wrote:

I'm no fan of this
I found out how to do it properly though
Go to #6 in Qualified listing
Look at the time the Qualify post was made
Then qualify the map at that same time
Still, I think it's not the best way to do it

we already know that, the problem its that there are like 3 or 4 + people waiting to hit the buttom to qualify as well.

You put your "not-yet-qualified"-map in it, and it'll automatically qualify it after it's able to (with the cap)

Not a bad idea, but the problem is with the current amount of BNs + mappers that queue will become really long and will be a similar problem .

I guess a good ideas that can be done are:

1- To bring back the previous cap of 8 maps, add more QATs or reduce members in Nominator group, just my opinion about the current state of this system.

I dislike the fact that there is no surefire way of determining when the cap will be gone. We can estimate based on the forum post, but often times people end up posting and then qualifying, only to realize that they can't actually qualify. Therefore, their post will say its been ~30 hours since qualification, but the map may only be in qualified for 18 hours.

The current system only benefits those who have a lot of free time and/or a flexible schedule. Those who can adjust their schedule to be available at/around the time of the cap reset will be able to rank as they wish. It doesn't matter what time zone you are at, because the window of time where you can qualify a map will change every day based on how long it took for the previous day's BN's to qualify after the cap.

Lets say I qualify a map at 1:00. The next day someone qualifies a map at 1:30 because they don't have time to refresh for an hour straight. Now the day after, someone needs to wait until at least 1:30 to qualify their map, maybe they miss it and qualify at 2:00. Now the next BN has to wait at least 1 hour past the original 1:00 before he can qualify.

Could just make one slot open every 4 hours like xxdeathx said. And then we can all practice being ninja's or snipers who qualify exactly on 4:00:00.

AR-240 minutes sounds cool .

Reason I post this because I din't find any announcement...

Previous system work well, everything runs regularly, reset in time.

We all have our own works, I do not want a timetable for games.

Don't like how maps being hung there for days, literally

Revert back to the previous system (8 max, 1 per person, every 1 day), increasing the QAT work, and slow down the process of inviting BNs would be appropriate, if you ask me.

ZiRoX wrote:

The other day we were discussing this with Irre on #nominators and I think a nice idea came out: to change the limit from 6 beatmaps each 24 hours to 3 beatmaps each 12 hours. It's the same in terms of number of maps, but it doesn't favor nominators in certain timezones THAT much.

Good idea, but 6 maps a day? Why decrease cap (from 8) when more BNs are invited?

There will be only more bubbled and popped icons in the forum, increasing everyday, can't be cleared.

Also, please don't make the system so complicated, I used a while to understand how the current system works.

More suggestions?

Rakuen wrote:

Good idea, but 6 maps a day? Why decrease cap (from 8) when more BNs are invited?

Good thing I'm not the only one who thought this was weird
I also said this in #nominators and we got a little discussion (didn't save chatlog tho)

Remember the high amount of last-minute-disqualifies that happened, because the QATs couldn't keep up with 8 maps a day. It works much better now atleast.

Keep in mind that other BNs drop out, as well. We just didnt purge the group yet, due to the wait for the real-time data...

Just a suggestion, why don't to make qualifications queued ?
I mean when we can't qualify a map because the limit has been reached, the map will be queued and when a slot will be free it will be automatically qualified.
I just think about something like this, but there are drawbacks as well, like who will post in the beatmap's thread with the heart/flame icon or, the large amount of queued maps etc.

This is to prevent from "i will be the first that will qualify this map when it will be reset" or "eeeeh you ninja'ed me, my map was supposed to be qualified before your map" etc.

That's just my idea.

Cherry Blossom wrote:

Just a suggestion, why don't to make qualifications queued ?
I mean when we can't qualify a map because the limit has been reached, the map will be queued and when a slot will be free it will be automatically qualified.
I just think about something like this, but there are drawbacks as well, like who will post in the beatmap's thread with the heart/flame icon or, the large amount of queued maps etc.

This is to prevent from "i will be the first that will qualify this map when it will be reset" or "eeeeh you ninja'ed me, my map was supposed to be qualified before your map" etc.

That's just my idea.

I also just said that ;w;

baraatje123 wrote:

Why not make it a queue?
You put your "not-yet-qualified"-map in it, and it'll automatically qualify it after it's able to (with the cap)

Ah well, Then Natsu replied and said

Natsu wrote:

baraatje123 wrote:

You put your "not-yet-qualified"-map in it, and it'll automatically qualify it after it's able to (with the cap)

Not a bad idea, but the problem is with the current amount of BNs + mappers that queue will become really long and will be a similar problem .

I guess a good ideas that can be done are:

1- To bring back the previous cap of 8 maps, add more QATs or reduce members in Nominator group, just my opinion about the current state of this system.

Cherry Blossom wrote:

Just a suggestion, why don't to make qualifications queued ?

100 beatmaps get queued and remain untouched in that time.
300 beatmaps get queued and you have to wait a month.
Etc.

As far as I saw here in past, now the system works better - I think waiting a day to qualify the map is not that critical, you anyway have to put 5 icons per month, for example you might put 3 bubbles and qualify 2 maps - Other BNs have the opportunity to qualify those 3 bubbles and you definitely have chance to wait for time to qualify 2 maps within 30 days.

I suppose we are getting more BNs because currently BN scores are not count in the previous "BNG Ranking" thread and we are just waiting for real-time scoring. I guess there are some inactive BNs who will be kicked when the real-time system is released, before that I guess BNs will be kicked only for abusing of power or inappropriate behavior, which does not seem to be happening, at least we do not see it in public. I would not change much, my opinion though.

baraatje123 wrote:

Not a bad idea, but the problem is with the current amount of BNs + mappers that queue will become really long and will be a similar problem

Just said why it isn't that big problem above, but as well as that, I think before we would increase the count of maps which could be qualified per day, we would need to get more very reliable QATs so they are able to handle so many maps. I am not saying QAT is slow now or something, definitely not, but I think they might be overloaded if checking that many maps a day and doing other job - That would be prevented if we had more reliable people to do this job. Maps rarely pass with unrankable issues, if we consider there are QATs for different game modes, there is really not huge amount of people who check those maps. In my humble opinion, we should not haste about qualifying maps as long as we have just few QATs - checking maps actually is not any better than modding them, so this would force them to rush even more. But I dunno, I am not QAT, my opinion is that they do not want to check huge amount of maps everyday.

So why don't to use the star priority ?
I mean, when the star priority is high, there will better chances to see the map qualified fastly. That will avoid speedqualification, and that will show the interests of the mapper and the community they have for the qualified map when they shoot stars on it. But there will be also abuse....
i don't have other ideas.


Or just, find another solution to be more efficient in both sides (BNs and QATs) to allow more qualified maps per day..

Just so that you all know, make sure you put a new reply when qualifying after hours or days, please do not use edit!

Don't do like this (just an example, no offence): p/4369493

(edited in the post)

Honestly, a simple timer on "There are no Qualifying slots available at the moment. The next one will open in x:xx" is all I want...

Yes. That would simplify stuff by a lot

Cherry Blossom wrote:

So why don't to use the star priority ?
I mean, when the star priority is high, there will better chances to see the map qualified fastly. That will avoid speedqualification, and that will show the interests of the mapper and the community they have for the qualified map when they shoot stars on it. But there will be also abuse....
i don't have other ideas.

I don't think it is nice idea to use star priority because it is unfair to those who actually have perfect maps from submission. For example when I wanted to get one of my map qualified, I couldn't just get mods - Not because modders were lazy or I was lazy, but I was getting "Sorry I cannot find anything or Sorry I don't think it needs more modding" messages from multiple modders. It was problem to achieve 12SP, imagining I would need really a higher amount of it would be unbelievable. This just prevents speedqualification, but that is different problem, which is really subjective, if map is really okay, it doesn't deserve to wait for stars. Yes, it would avoid QATs overload, but would completely kick some mappers in face, because they would have to achieve more and more SP, because there new bubbles are coming daily, those bubbled 12SP maps would most likely not be qualified, no matter whether there are no issues. What Yauxo said would be enough, the amount of allowed maps to qualify can be higher after some time, but when there are more people to handle them, focusing on SP would just make mess and fights between mappers and modders. Speedqualification is not bad unless it is abusing of power.

Cherry Blossom wrote:

So why don't to use the star priority ?
I mean, when the star priority is high, there will better chances to see the map qualified fastly. That will avoid speedqualification, and that will show the interests of the mapper and the community they have for the qualified map when they shoot stars on it. But there will be also abuse....
i don't have other ideas.


Or just, find another solution to be more efficient in both sides (BNs and QATs) to allow more qualified maps per day..

Yes please.
sorry

But actually, why did the cap got lowered?
So far I've only seen trouble from it

Desperate-kun wrote:

Remember the high amount of last-minute-disqualifies that happened, because the QATs couldn't keep up with 8 maps a day. It works much better now atleast.

They lack the manpower to keep up with 8 maps. They are people with freetime activities and mappers as well and not quality check machines.
This is a game why should that Qat position drain most of your spare time? Everyone was pissed at the last day dqs because they couldnt keep up with the amount of maps we qualify and now we are annoyed that they want less workload??

Are we serious?

More QATs
Cap up
Problem solved I hope

I will just assume that if we had suitable candidates for the position we wouldnt have this situation.

Okoratu wrote:

I will just assume that if we had suitable candidates for the position we wouldnt have this situation.

Exactly this.

Also stop propagating the idea that you need to do a certain amount of icons or mods in a specific time span. I do not know where this number "5" is spawning from the entire time, but you can very well stay a BN if you just post 1 icon every now and then.

We prefer quality over quantity. The real-time system makes the idea of "x icons per month" obsolete anyways. It pays attention to consistent activity, but it doesn't force you to put x amounts of icons in x time. It just tells you to do it every now and then, else you are useless.

Yauxo wrote:

Honestly, a simple timer on "There are no Qualifying slots available at the moment. The next one will open in x:xx" is all I want...

Score farmers would stalk the timer no matter what. I did that as a simple JS+PHP project and got told to keep it for myself due to that reason.

Okoratu wrote:

I will just assume that if we had suitable candidates for the position we wouldnt have this situation.

And disqualifications on day 7 also caused this, I guess. Now, they're getting done on day 6/5 which is barely better. I think the best case scenario would be day 1/2 ?

Still better than pushing people towards burnout for our interests

_Gezo_ wrote:

Okoratu wrote:

I will just assume that if we had suitable candidates for the position we wouldnt have this situation.

And disqualifications on day 7 also caused this, I guess. Now, they're getting done on day 6/5 which is barely better. I think the best case scenario would be day 1/2 ?

Well about this I think is fine to take like 5 - 7 days to DQ, since players need time to test stuff, and I guess that's the purpose of the Qualified section, if I'm not wrong.

This is slightly relevant, slightly not:

What about giving an incentive for people to find and point out objective errors pre-qualification? Currently it's considered rude to bubble pop, and a lot of time and work also have to be invested into bubble-popping, so I rarely ever see BN's bubble popping now... Additionally, there doesn't seem to be an incentive anymore to bubble-popping (I remember there used to be, but apparently that's no longer the case, after talking to a few QATs). If more BN's were willing to bubble-pop, there wouldn't be so many bubbled maps in pending, and that would translate to more time in between qualified cap because less BN's will be actively trying to qualify maps.

However, right now there is a responsibility attached to bubble-popping when I feel there shouldn't be. There is certainly no responsibility attached to disqualification. QAT's are not in any way obligated to help you get your map back into qualified. Bubble-popping will cause far less drama than disqualification if some error is found, because player and BN score will be unaffected. But right now, not only is there no incentive to bubble-popping, it is also very time-consuming having to commit to a mapset whose quality you may not even think is ready.

Anyways, just my two cents. I hope we can find a system that can allow the cap to return to 8/9 without burning out the QAT's.

monstrata wrote:

What about giving an incentive for people to find and point out objective errors pre-qualification? Currently it's considered rude to bubble pop, and a lot of time and work also have to be invested into bubble-popping, so I rarely ever see BN's bubble popping now... Additionally, there doesn't seem to be an incentive anymore to bubble-popping (I remember there used to be, but apparently that's no longer the case, after talking to a few QATs). If more BN's were willing to bubble-pop, there wouldn't be so many bubbled maps in pending, and that would translate to more time in between qualified cap because less BN's will be actively trying to qualify maps.


However, right now there is a responsibility attached to bubble-popping when I feel there shouldn't be. There is certainly no responsibility attached to disqualification. QAT's are not in any way obligated to help you get your map back into qualified. Bubble-popping will cause far less drama than disqualification if some error is found, because player and BN score will be unaffected. But right now, not only is there no incentive to bubble-popping, it is also very time-consuming having to commit to a mapset whose quality you may not even think is ready.

Anyways, just my two cents. I hope we can find a system that can allow the cap to return to 8/9 without burning out the QAT's.

By objectivity you mean formally unrankable issues like objects that are snapped wrongly, right ? (because mapping quality is not objective at all and it couldn't be)
That's BN's job to find them, when you check a map, don't trust the mapper, and always say to yourself that there are issues to find out, that will give you motivation to find unrankable issues instead of thinking that a beatmapset is 100% safe.
Concerning bubble popping, I take my time and I always want to help, i don't consider bubble popping funny, and i think that it helps a lot the mapper because he will learn from his mistakes, and he will be more careful next time. And note that I never let the mapper and his mapset die because of a bubble pop, I already saw disgusting cases when the BN revokes the bubble he set by bubble popping it.
I'm willing to bubble pop because there are many things that are messed up during the ranking process, and that will also avoid a future DQ for obvious reasons.

the best way is to just add a timer.. please...
otherwise, I don't think it's hard for someone to even make a 3rd party qualify timer.

queue idea > I don't working. just instead of things being stacked up in qualified, they would be stacked up in the queue.

raise cap > no.. that's probably not going to happen unless we get more QATs. and seeing most of us atm.. idk if that's going to happen lol.

1 slot every 4 hours > that would probably help a bit for some people.

Kibbleru wrote:

the best way is to just add a timer.. please...
otherwise, I don't think it's hard for someone to even make a 3rd party qualify timer.

And get it impossible to qualify the map due to score farmers that stalk the timer, while random tries make chances to qualify a map equal for everyone.

Kyubey wrote:

Kibbleru wrote:

the best way is to just add a timer.. please...
otherwise, I don't think it's hard for someone to even make a 3rd party qualify timer.

And get it impossible to qualify the map due to score farmers that stalk the timer, while random tries make chances to qualify a map equal for everyone.

some BNs already have timers anyways lol.

Natsu wrote:

some BNs already have timers anyways lol.

Still not that many as could be possible with official timer.

Kyubey wrote:

And get it impossible to qualify the map due to score farmers that stalk the timer, while random tries make chances to qualify a map equal for everyone.

it's not like so-called "score farmers" didn't stalk 18:00 or now don't go look when 6th map got qualified. its all the same thing

I Always thought you could look at the 6th map of the qualified listing and look at that time
But that doesn't say when it qualified, only when last updated, making it incredibly useless
Any way to quickly find that?

baraatje123 wrote:

I Always thought you could look at the 6th map of the qualified listing and look at that time
But that doesn't say when it qualified, only when last updated, making it incredibly useless
Any way to quickly find that?

look at qualifiying post...

Aka wrote:

it's not like so-called "score farmers" didn't stalk 18:00 or now don't go look when 6th map got qualified. its all the same thing

Still not that many people do this as it was with 18:00 reset. But some timer will make more people to do it.

Now I must admit it doesn't work any comfortable. Firstly I thought it might take a while to get to qualify the map, but then I find out it is literally impossible for me. I was smashing the qualify button all day yesterday and today, but map couldn't be qualified - What is wrong isn't that I couldn't qualify the map, but I was trying it constantly, didn't work and even when I tried it after I saw one beatmap is qualified, I tried it, nothing, but after one 20 minutes another map was qualified (by post, not by when it appears in Qualified section), I cannot even check the 6th qualified map for that day, because it is whole messed up, I cannot determine whether it is 6th or not, because beatmaps are just coming, qualification button doesn't work for me, and because I don't know the reset, it's obvious that I had to sped all day clicking qualify, but even though people were happily qualifying maps, I couldn't at same time as they did. I find this really tiring to almost not sleep two days to qualify a map and then find out that qualification doesn't work for you at all. Dunno what's happening, but something either changed or it is bugged currently.

Well
I recall I qualified a map 2 days ago at 18:09
Yesterday I also qualified a map, and because I remembered I did it at 18:09, I could easily 'ninja' it
Hint: Go qualify a map at 16:09 UTC
Whenever I am going to qualify, I look at all recent qualified maps, and look at the time
Then it's just a matter a patience
Perhaps a tip for you as well
Just look for the time, and you need to press the qualify button a max of 1-3 times until it gets qualified

The qualification system isn't even linear or 24 hours based.

Once your map gets qualified, an event will be posted on your "Recent-Activity".

Let's look at Tari's Recent Activity: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/1779172.
>about 24 hours ago
capitaro - Karen Aikyou Hanasaka gumi by Tari has just been qualified!

Now lets look at Peachtree's Recent Activity: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/2633955
>about 5 hours ago
Hoobastank - The Reason by Peachtrees has just been qualified!

And finally, lets look at how many maps are in between these two:

Yea, that's right. There are 6 maps in between, but yet, Peachtrees' map was qualified only 19 hours after Tari's. So this system isn't bound by some sort of 24 hour rule. The 24 hour rule works, yes, but sometimes you can qualify before the 24 hours is up. So what's really up with this system?

Monstrata
That talks about last updated
NOT about date qualified
If you check it more, some qualiied maps which got qualified later, the others are still lower on the list
Also, I made an f-req about that (to show it in order of getting qualified, not updated)

But it literally says xxx by xxx has just been qualified! Also, the forum posts reflect this, if you prefer checking via forum posts.

Yep, glad many of you guys understand why this post is here

Quality takes time, and we don't have to bother ranking it tomorrow, the day after tomorrow

But for me the current one it's a bit more like wasting time, now BN have to stab each other because "hey you ninja'd" me, and spend some unnecessary time tracking the 6th qualified map, or even making timer for it (I mean, why?), or maybe just luck

It's like work, you wanna get this job done as quickly as you can, and then go home, right?

May be a totally pointless discussion all the time, maybe staffs got a decision already, but just don't kill me XD

baraatje123 wrote:

Well
I recall I qualified a map 2 days ago at 18:09
Yesterday I also qualified a map, and because I remembered I did it at 18:09, I could easily 'ninja' it
Hint: Go qualify a map at 16:09 UTC
Whenever I am going to qualify, I look at all recent qualified maps, and look at the time
Then it's just a matter a patience
Perhaps a tip for you as well
Just look for the time, and you need to press the qualify button a max of 1-3 times until it gets qualified

This happens to me with Secretpipe and Wafu's maps.When I checked everything (on these mapset ), I went to qualify but it was that message with too many qualified maps in the last 24 hours so I had to wait.It takes me many times to qualify those mapsets.Even the qualified mapsets list were refreshed,again that message with too many qualified maps was still there.

baraatje123 wrote:

Well
I recall I qualified a map 2 days ago at 18:09
Yesterday I also qualified a map, and because I remembered I did it at 18:09, I could easily 'ninja' it
Hint: Go qualify a map at 16:09 UTC
Whenever I am going to qualify, I look at all recent qualified maps, and look at the time
Then it's just a matter a patience
Perhaps a tip for you as well
Just look for the time, and you need to press the qualify button a max of 1-3 times until it gets qualified

I know this everything, but I am pretty sure I was on time and I couldn't qualify, but other people could happily qualify, so I was camping there for no reason actually.

Also yup, ordering by qualified would make this much easier if the timer cannot be there. That would be even useful for QATs - It is easier to divide qualified into sections and you would be like: "I will check all maps below this today, all maps below this tomorrow" etc. and if one map just appeared on the bottom of list, because it was not updated long time, then it mixes between other maps and there is no logical order then.

Additionally it is whole confusing because people post the heart and then wait for qualification available, thus you might not even find those last 6 qualified maps.

This change is not about last-minute-disqualifies because last-minute-disqualifies still happens and this is better to give the QAT time to discuss and unqualify on last minute rather then get fast decision from them.

Yes, I think reducing limit to 6 is great for quality control, however real-time thing forces BNs to stalk and spam qualify button to get one chance to overclick fellow mates... quite ridiculous way to work for BNG. Also this talks "We just didnt purge the group yet" are not related to the topic at all because you know dead people don't qualify beatmaps now and then (no matter will they be purged or not) -> so this will be even harder to qualify stuff in future because active part of BNG is increasing.
The most fair decision as was mentioned will be queue based on SR.

I think the 24hrs already failed
A few days ago, between 16:00-18:00 UTC, 4 maps were qualified
4, in only 2 hours
I don't think that should be the case right?

For now, spend more effort and time in modding and polishing mapsets instead of setting icons. Be picky with what you bubble or qualify. I know this is easier said than done, but it is the best way until there may be a better solution.

its hard to say no when people come begging you for bubbles ><

Desperate-kun wrote:

For now, spend more effort and time in modding and polishing mapsets instead of setting icons. Be picky with what you bubble or qualify. I know this is easier said than done, but it is the best way until there may be a better solution.

It shouldn't be. A mapper should definitely respect when a BN advises him that a map needs more time, if he disagrees he can find someone else as it's not the current BNs business anymore.

Kibbleru wrote:

its hard to say no when people come begging you for bubbles ><

What's wrong with saying no? You should stand your point, if the persons you talk to with does not agree, they are free to look for someone else.

Anyways, I've seen that there is lots of discussion about when you can actually qualify maps, also about ninja'ing etc.
Have you ever tried contacting the other BN, asking him to give you priority (in case you are waiting for a longer time already)? I am sure we are all mature enough to see when a case like this happens, and to set priorities accordingly.

So please, communicate with each other, and everything will work better, I am sure.

Irreversible wrote:

So please, communicate with each other, and everything will work better, I am sure.

=>

Desperate-kun wrote:

this is easier said than done

So, we just have to yell on #nominators : "Hello guys, please don't qualify anything, there is a map that is waiting since last month, and i couldn't qualify it because i'm always ninja'ed" . Yes this could be a solution.

But why it is easier said than done ?
=> Because a lot of active BNs doesn't care about #nominators , you can pm them but, due to the amount of maps that are waiting for their qualification, it could be just impossible to save a free slot. And there could be conflicts everywhere, like "eeeh it was my turn" => "sorry i didn't see your message" => "eeeeh i said it 12 hours before you" => "eeeh guys don't joke with me i was here before all of you" etc. That won't arrange anything.

My solution could be : Create a thread called "QUEUED MAPS", each BN HAS TO post the map that is waiting for its qualification, and the only rule : Qualify the map only if the linked map on the previous post has been qualified. When the map has been qualified, just use [ strike] [ /strike].
Just simple, fair, and that will avoid confusion and that could give a qualification log.

Irreversible wrote:

Have you ever tried contacting the other BN, asking him to give you priority (in case you are waiting for a longer time already)? I am sure we are all mature enough to see when a case like this happens, and to set priorities accordingly.

I definitely isnt that easy.
How is one BN supposed to know which random other BN (out of the mass we've gained in the past few months) is going to possibly qualify a random map? I couldnt be bothered to pm every single BN to "leave a spot to me" every two-or-so hours just because of the current system. Then even if I found a BN that was about to qualify something but leaves to spot to me - how can I make sure that none of the other BNs comes online out of nowhere to hit the button for one of their maps?

You simply dont know which BN is doing what. Some BNs are communicative, some arent. Either you're lucky with this system or youre not.

I do see your concern, I was thinking of PMing them directly to avoid this issue, but I was not quite aware how big BN was at this moment. I do agree that there must be a solution, but I do not think a thread where people are forced to post is set up that easily. I will investigate further tomorrow and see if there could be another solution.

Yauxo wrote:

Irreversible wrote:

Have you ever tried contacting the other BN, asking him to give you priority (in case you are waiting for a longer time already)? I am sure we are all mature enough to see when a case like this happens, and to set priorities accordingly.

I definitely isnt that easy.
How is one BN supposed to know which random other BN (out of the mass we've gained in the past few months) is going to possibly qualify a random map? I couldnt be bothered to pm every single BN to "leave a spot to me" every two-or-so hours just because of the current system. Then even if I found a BN that was about to qualify something but leaves to spot to me - how can I make sure that none of the other BNs comes online out of nowhere to hit the button for one of their maps?

You simply dont know which BN is doing what. Some BNs are communicative, some arent. Either you're lucky with this system or youre not.

yea.. the group is simply too big for that lol.