TicClick wrote:
Excuse me? These are two different syllables with two absolutely differently sounding vowels.
Problem is I didn't talk about syllables. I know де is not the same as дё - There is difference of 2nd letter. BUT I talked about letter, not syllable. However д in both cases reads soft and that's not caused by Y, that's just accent, you have to get used to it no matter where are you from, everyone will find out after reading multiple words, this is thing which people must deal with.
Let's compare to Japanese. 今日 is きょう in Hiragana, which is Kyou after transliteration - You do not read U but you read long O, so in this case people also had to get used to this - These are just rules of the language itself. You might say people will be confused then and will read it wrong, but many languages have these problems. Even English does, for example read and read - Seems like the same words, but one of this might be past tense, that means both are written the same way, but one reads with long I instead of 'ea' and one reads only E instead of 'ea'. That's just getting to know the language.
TicClick wrote:
I still think you have trouble getting the pronounciation right, and at this point I'd like to ask where you take it from, considering the flag in your profile.
I don't to be offensive, I'll just take this calm way. What you are providing is not an argument but a fallacy (not the extreme point, but you pull unrelated things there). Firstly, you judge that I have problem with pronunciation without further explanation, secondly, you decrease my right to discuss about this based on the fact I am not Russian nor from country using Cyrillic. I'd appreciate if we don't change topic to "You are not Russian, you don't know anything about our pronunciation." but keep providing arguments that are really related, everyone is equal there.
To be more accurate, for example Scientific transliteration, which was then turned to GOST (and partialy to ISO 9), was based mostly on Czech alphabet and pronunciation.
That means google translate could be a good tool to show difference between the ways of romanizing the уйдёшь word. Only bad thing and inaccuracy here is that google is using retarded accents, so sometimes it might be messed up. Play the pronunciation and see the difference.
1st way of romanization was
uidesh2nd way was mine,
uidosh (though it should've been uydosh) - If you imagine the Russian accent, isn't it similar to
уйдёшь3rd was yours
uidyosh (or uydyosh if we refer to the BGN/PCGN, that's not problem we solve now, nothing to talk about now) However, in the original Russian version, there is nothing what sounds like yo, just the D is soft, which is just the accent, same as above mentioned "read" & "read" which reads different in 2 exactly the same forms. If you don't agree that it's just accent, then removing the caron (in this case caron=accent), your romanization would sound like
this, so it would be simpler to just swap to
IPA to avoid confusion with accent if you disagree that accent and the language's rules must be considered when reading as I already mentioned twice with "read" & "read" thingy.
Aka wrote:
would you pronounce дёшево as doshevo?
if you just put o after do, nobody would understand that d is supposed to be soft. it would look completely same as dozhdik (дождик) but these 2 words has completely different vowels, they are pronounced differently. its ё and о. yo and о
yes, you can hear a tiny o at the end of ё but its completely not similar to straight о vowel, its rather soft and more emphasis goes on y sound, which makes the whole syllable sound softer
Already explained above - Each language has different accent thus words which are written the same way could have different pronunciation. I agree that the difference
might be shown better, but D would not be softened by Y after it, because that's in conflict with the chosen romanization rules, where Y reads as I or J (in Slavic languages) and there are no cases where Y softened the letter before it, the accent just does, that's not thing which you afflict by writing.
That would even force us to make complete transliteration of
all Russian words, because there are many exceptions where it reads different way than it's written.
For example Южный
Поток - Where it is romanized as Potok, but 1st O with accent makes it sound A, but the second O is still normal O.
On the other hand
почка is romanized to pochka, where O after P reads like O, not like A in first case, same case.
Same applies to the пот - definitely reads pot, not pat.
Seriously I just took 3 random words starting on по - now consider how many words starting with по could exist. As I said, it depends, accent changes in most languages even though the non-Unicode transcription doesn't.
