The recent 2 maps I notified/qualified was dequalified due to "quality issues", however this quality issue is equivocal and never been specified generally. I raise this topic in ordered to help BNs to check the maps in a more careful and efficient way, which leads to the reduction of future disqualification and modding work.

Question: What should BN check when determining whether a map is quality-guaranteed?

Possible answer:
1. distance snap. the distance of adjacent note should be visually consistent, that is, streams, or consequent 1/2 (1/1) notes should follow a consistent distance, unless it's aesthetically intended. Snapping with large grid should be avoided, as they often make stream notes space inconsistent.
2. blanketing. if the mapper intends to blanket notes, then they must make the blanket neat.
3. flow. the map should have a good flow, and should avoid inconsistent spacing in jumps when not confident.
4. neatness. the adjacent notes should not be overlapped randomly, and should be placed with a neat spacing to make them readable.

I feel there's much space of improvement to go. Please help to make the spread better, and also will give a brief guide to mappers.

Edit: I'll try to collect the ideas below. Hope other moderators can help me doing this.

Sieg wrote:

1. care about playability from a target audience view
2. care about reasoning (how mapping reflects the song)
3. do not justify questionable spots
4. do not force mappers to change anything also remember that you are not obligated to nominate every map you mod
5. ask others if you are not sure

Cherry Blossom wrote:

Rhythm : There are some basic things like making the strongest note on the song played by a circle or a sliderhead to give a better impression etc. Or being consistent with rhythm, I mean, for example, when there is a song with vocals, the mapper follows the instruments, not the vocals. And a section later, he follows vocals only, not the instrument, when you can hear the same thing, i mean, when the song is the same. And many confusing things like this.

Aka wrote:

reasonable spacing changes
(most of time better to stick to ~one spacing. track goes more intense - increase it track goes more calm - decrease it)

reasonable sv changes
(avoid short and sudden sv changes, it must be reasonable. most of time something like sudden 1.0 -> 0.5 for a short ~aaa~ in lyrics is compeletely "ew" which causes sliderbreaks, awkward feeling, flow breaks)

sukiNathan wrote:

Correlation with the music: Spacing, flow, and patterns should be constructed to accurately represent the intensity/melody of a song. Accentuated beats would be complimented with a momentum change or an increase in spacing. Weaker sections of a song might be less harsh in movement and lower in spacing.

-Bakari- wrote:

1. Is everything in this map reasonable and does it all make sense with the music? (this includes hitsounds, jumps, hitobjects, storyboarding and skinning)
2. Does the map feel good to target players? (You can test it yourself, but I suggest getting a few more testplayers whenever you feel unsure)
3. Is everything fine from the technical side? (Metadata, SB, Skinning)

I just kinda want to add some input here, sorry if that's somewhat offtopic(?)

Flower wrote:

3. flow. the map should have a good flow, and should avoid inconsistent spacing in jumps when not confident.
4. neatness. the adjacent notes should not be overlapped randomly, and should be placed with a neat spacing to make them readable.

First of all, thanks for trying to clear things up. The "quality issues" thing got me kinda furious because it's so subjective and yet not many can spot them when checking (obviously, since theyre subjective). This might help some BNs in that case.

But then again, these two things are still not clear as in terms of what is possibly okay and what's not.

Flow - What is a good flow?
- Rounded Sliders, straight Sliders. Which one is better?
- How long do I have to continue the current flow to it to be a "good" flow?
- When can I break the flow to initiate a jump or direction change?
- Can I have my own kind of flow in my map or does that count as "bad" flow? Would that hinder the mapper in mapping his/her style?
- Does the Slider Leniency (on high SV maps for example) count as flow if you are forced to follow the Slider at least a set minimum lenght? (reverse kicksliders)

- In general, what would you define as good flow? Everyone has a different view on flow and how the player should move the cursor. If the song is strong, bass heavy and crazy in general, then the song should be crazy ... or should it not? That's up to the mapper and his creativity.

Neatness - Is my "looks good" also your "looks good"?
- If there's a slowdown, can I break the "neatness" of the Stream or Circle combo?
- Pitchmapping -> Will it hurt the map if I use multiple different Distance Snaps where some might overlap seemingly "randomly"?
- I think the map looks good, will the BNs and QATs also think that the map looks good or will they try to force a (possibly ugly) change on me?
- Are overlaps just a damn ugly mapping element or do they make sense with the song/mapping style?
- Do straight Sliders look better than curved Sliders? Which one can you make more use out of?

etcpp.
I really dislike how subjective ranking/dqs have become. Ofcourse, everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone should respect that, but then people should also create some kind (any kind, really) of a norm of what to do and what not.
There have been multiple dq's and non-dq's where Im wondering what kind of "quality issue" people are looking at to determine whether a map is good or not. There are some maps that were good in my opinion, but still got dq'd. On the other hand, other maps burst through the qualified state and reach ranked w/o any kind of problem where I thought that they shoulve been dq'd long time ago.

We (BNs + QATs) dont work together, I know that, but isnt there any way to atleast clear things up as a team? A thread to add some input to what should be good, what shouldnt be (as a basic general idea)? I know I'd be happy about it ...

... eh. I guess we'll just see what happens in the future. As far as I know, the QATs want to be more strict, so let's see if things change to the good.

Can I add really obvious and simple things? Because I'm a bit afraid that some of my mates will go and force distant snap, round flows and blankets on every single difficulty after reading this (:

1. care about playability from a target audience view
2. care about reasoning (how mapping reflects the song)
3. do not justify questionable spots
4. do not force mappers to change anything also remember that you are not obligated to nominate every map you mod
5. ask others if you are not sure

Awh well, I'll explain how/why I bubble pop for quality issues.

First, I never do it lonely, I mean, I always ask people for more opinions and then I act, because IM NOT ALWAYS RIGHT.
I care of the overall playability, that includes consistency in difficulty/patterns, visual & flow, and rhythm. I don't really care of the difficulty excepted when patterns look really overdone and too difficult to play for what the song provides.

Visual : I think people are more exigent with visual since 2013 or 2014, ugly patterns can be considered as a "quality issue", but in my opinion, it is subjective. People have different viewpoints concerning what is pretty or what is ugly as hell. But i agree that the map should be neat, at least, blankets should be done properly.
Flow : Same as Visual, people have different opinions about it, about how to enjoy the map at its maximum. But, nothing is perfect, everything has a flaw and it's up to the modder to point it out and suggest something which plays better on his own opinion, but he must be reasonable and as objective as possible.
Rhythm : There are some basic things like making the strongest note on the song played by a circle or a sliderhead to give a better impression etc. Or being consistent with rhythm, I mean, for example, when there is a song with vocals, the mapper follows the instruments, not the vocals. And a section later, he follows vocals only, not the instrument, when you can hear the same thing, i mean, when the song is the same. And many confusing things like this.

flow
(also a part of 2nd paragraph) ( suitable flow breaks, pauses, stacks; a good flow is (as i see it and to what i have always been paying a lot of attention) something connected to the feels. like a pleasant, smooth movements of the hand, when you feel like everything is playable in a comfortable way. slider shapes are also a part of flow, rounded sliders help players to get your intended flow, sometimes just straight ones is not enough)

a kind of visual connectivity between patterns
(one slider/note flows into another, one complements another in a visual way. slider shapes are also a part of it. not just 3-4 objects here and sudden breaking flow there from another part of the screen)

neatness
(possible overlaps visible during the gameplay better be avoided; a lot of variable slider shapes in one short part is also not something "neat" but random to eyesight; also using the same corner for quite a long time is a thing to avoid)

reasonable spacing changes
(most of time better to stick to ~one spacing. track goes more intense - increase it track goes more calm - decrease it)

reasonable sv changes
(avoid short and sudden sv changes, it must be reasonable. most of time something like sudden 1.0 -> 0.5 for a short ~aaa~ in lyrics is compeletely "ew" which causes sliderbreaks, awkward feeling, flow breaks)

rhythm
(suitable objects for suitable parts: sliders for long sounds, etc.. also usage of red/blue/white ticks is important. silenced downbeats by slider ends, 1/4 sliders from blue ticks, those polatiry issues are the things to pay attention. invented rhythm, like, placing notes/streams where are no sounds at all is not a good thing)

hitsounds
(...)

i wud like some qats to clear this stuff up for us :X

Will observe this thread. The general idea is good, but we are yet to define the questioned terms as well, clear enough to proclaim them. (proclaiming unfinished and undefined things is a bit edgy). It's not that we do not know what they mean, but it is hard to describe them intersubjectively understandable.

The direction that Flower, Sieg and Aka are going is overall correct. I will release a general idea of what the QAT is having, as soon as I compiled the thought we gathered on Sunday into a proper wording, labeling out the terms that are yet to be defined in a more detailed way.

Loctav wrote:

Will observe this thread. The general idea is good, but we are yet to define the questioned terms as well, clear enough to proclaim them. (proclaiming unfinished and undefined things is a bit edgy). It's not that we do not know what they mean, but it is hard to describe them intersubjectively understandable.

The direction that Flower, Sieg and Aka are going is overall correct. I will release a general idea of what the QAT is having, as soon as I compiled the thought we gathered on Sunday into a proper wording, labeling out the terms that are yet to be defined in a more detailed way.

Thanks for that, Im really looking forward to that.

I'd like to ask one thing though; Will QATs be the only one to give input on what's good and what's not or will the BNs be able to question/discuss/suggest improvement on (very) subjective rules?

Correlation with the music: Spacing, flow, and patterns should be constructed to accurately represent the intensity/melody of a song. Accentuated beats would be complimented with a momentum change or an increase in spacing. Weaker sections of a song might be less harsh in movement and lower in spacing.

Here's a good example where a DQ occurred over lack of correlation. This doesn't really apply to lower difficulties though, since mappers have less freedom with them.

p/4078528

Hi hi~

Just posting some ideas here, hope you guys dont mind, will add some more in future posts if I think of any:

1. Avoid complicated stacks. If you have lesser experience in mapping, it makes your map messy especially in lower diffs like Easy and Normal
   
2. Avoid complexly structured slider. Do not try to make your map interesting just by making some pretty weird shapes, and ending up with some not well-polished sliders. Simple curve or maybe a sharp end would be pretty fine.
   
3. Take a careful use of huge jumps, they are not for how crazy you can go, they are for how good you can stick with the song, and its change. If you are not confident, use a smaller jump.
   
4. Triplets and Streams are important elements of a map, but it does not mean that you can abuse its usage. Excessive streams in songs without fast drums, especially low BPM, would give players a more annoying experience.
   Add: Overmapping sometimes fit the change of music, for example lead before KIAI, leading KIAI, middle KIAI and sort.

Quoted this from mapping forum, because I think it's a good guideline and inspiration (edited the last sentence).

Pho wrote:

Put more reason and consistency in your spacing and stop spamming jumps like there's no tomorrow.

You really need to learn to reflect on your own mapping more and not just soak up every suggestion thrown at you from BNs and QATs without keeping it in mind. Do not repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

Talking about "quality", BNs and mappers should not be afraid of DQs. Take everything carefully, do what you could, when it gets DQ fix it.

Others: No pain no gain, this actually works. If you're afraid of it, take things "too carefully", like "hey I'm not confident to rank this," and you'll never learn.

Lastly, everything in the community is basically by opinions and what could you do better, including DQs. Please do not blame QAT for subjective DQs, take them as an improving mods.

Ahha...dunno if I wrote it well or not, feel free to decline any of this

Sorry if I'm a little late, but I just though that I could throw a couple of ideas.

These are the questions I ask myself while looking at every map.

1. Is everything in this map reasonable and does it all make sense with the music? (this includes hitsounds, jumps, hitobjects, storyboarding and skinning)
2. Does the map feel good to target players? (You can test it yourself, but I suggest getting a few more testplayers whenever you feel unsure)
3. Is everything fine from the technical side? (Metadata, SB, Skinning)

So far, most of my DQs were because I overlooked something from the pointed above things.

It's been mentioned before, I just tried to put it all together and make it simple.

It's good to see the contest form, but I am still waiting for a more direct instruction... I really want to cover everything but myself won't have mind of everything. Waiting for another weekend.

I don't think there will be more detailed input since all this is really subjective
hm, lately I've come to conclusion that the best way for mappers, your effort and time spend is just push-push-push beatmaps without any hard quality control and just fix all objective\subjective disqualifies after if they occurred, also this way is well appreciated by the system
or just work with your friends only :3

Never limit yourself to friends only, that's kind of unfair and it just locks you in a certain "standard" of you and your friends styles. Which also prevents you from making your own and others' mapping styles better/more interesting and makes the whole modding process boring.

Speaking about DQs, it's impossible to cover everything, with such a variety of genres, styles and patterns we can't catch everything all the time. Just do what you believe is the right thing to do and check maps carefully. As long as you give your best to every map you check, the chances of DQs are really low.

Everything mentioned above is just my opinion, of course.

@-Bakari- you are quite naive

Frequently, the naive ones are both right (correct) and misunderstanded / sometimes hated (like Asselyum from Aldnoah Zero).

Quality is a whole world, which is naturally hard to fully achieve. We do the possible (the impossible is up to God hehe).

Nazi mods are generally hated; however, should there are some nazi suggestions on every comprehensive mod (especially for blankets and streams). Even they don't help to improve flow.

(In fact, every map should have an Easy diff. At least, this was the only non-offensive word that Luanny told me.)