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The Werewolf Game 4 (Broken/Shut Down)

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AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
Okay, I believe all current questions are answered (please correct me by asking again if I'm wrong), and all necessary edits/clarifications have been edited into the rules (please point it out again if I'm wrong).

o.o Apparently, suddenly: Lots of people want to play. (This is a good thing, I'm just a bit surprised I got so many so fast.)

Also, Adam, Strager, a wolf? I don't know that, and neither do you, as the game hasn't even begun yet (hell, I haven't even assigned roles yet). However, if he ends up being a wolf, I shall, proverbially, eat my hat. With mustard (because mustard is delicious). :3

Status is updated and stuffiz.
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

I do state in the rules that some games force you to blow your cover if a GA protect is successful; if I am using the Touhou theme (which it looks like I am), I kinda have a choice, I guess, but I'll rule that the gem must be in close proximity, so if the Wolves select a protected target to kill, they'll discover the GA's identity. ...and come to think of it, if I rule that way for this theme, then the GA would have to know the identity of a Wolf also, as they'd realistically be within sight of each other.
I'm assuming only the wolves will get the "Hey, this guy's the GA," and not the entire population?

Also, can the Scientist drink his own Vial(s)? And if so, in the case where there is 2 or more vials, will the Scientist still have vials left over if he turns into a wolf/a different role?
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
Rolled: Both good questions.

Wolf/GA Discovery: Yes. Just the Wolves would get that heads-up.

Mad Scientist: I didn't even consider that the MS would even want to take their own poison; a good question as well. I suppose if I wanted to allow it, there'd be no good reason not to allow it (outside of the possibility of turning themselves into a Wolf), but I'm going to say no, the MS is not going to be ingesting their own concoctions (not this time, anyway). Isn't it more fun to shove it down someone else's throat anyway? :3

Extra Ruling: In the future, if I do allow the MS to ingest their own vials, if it turns them into a Wolf, extra vial(s) will be destroyed by accident as they transform; if it alters their Aux Role but they remain human, they keep any vial(s) they may have had remaining.
adam2046
1,653 posts
Joined April 2008
adam2046

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

Adam/Priest comment: In the last completed game (WWG2), the Humans won, as I recall. And in neither WWG1 nor WWG2 was the Priest's ability ever actually even used in the first place, so you effectively have zero point of reference (from my games, anyway).
Yeah, it was Pasonia's game (constant priest revives are hilarious).

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

Also, Adam, Strager, a wolf? I don't know that, and neither do you, as the game hasn't even begun yet (hell, I haven't even assigned roles yet). However, if he ends up being a wolf, I shall, proverbially, eat my hat. With mustard (because mustard is delicious). :3
He totally is.
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
1) They may be hilarious (actually, I can very much imagine exactly why you say that :3), but it gives the humans far too much of an advantage, which is why standard rulesets limit the Priest to one resurrection per game. I support adding new roles for human advantage only if risk is involved; if you have an informed Priest who is allowed to resurrect people as many times as he wants, then there's no risk because he could just keep reviving a human until he himself dies. And by that time it will probably be too late for the Wolves.

2) I would not be surprised if:

* Day 1: Adam votes for Strager, Strager doesn't die
* Day 2: Adam votes for Strager, Strager doesn't die
* Day 3: Adam votes for Strager, Strager is lynched
* Day 4: "Uhhhhhh....Iunno lol my purpose in life has been fulfilled" *votes for self or refuses to vote*

This would be lol.
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun

adam2046 wrote:

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

Adam/Priest comment: In the last completed game (WWG2), the Humans won, as I recall. And in neither WWG1 nor WWG2 was the Priest's ability ever actually even used in the first place, so you effectively have zero point of reference (from my games, anyway).
Yeah, it was Pasonia's game (constant priest revives are hilarious).


as was Rolled and I breaking one of Pas's games with our 'special' interrogation techniques mirite fun times

HIGH FIVE ME ROLLED
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
o/

Also, @ Mad Scientist drinking own vial, it's really a win/win situation for the scientist if they do it asap. They'll either get a more useful role, or they'll get to be a wolf which would give wolves an advantage since -1human +1wolf (and they'll be on the advantageous team, obviously) I know I'd do it.

Also, will the Mad Scientist remain anonymous after forcing someone to drink a vial? Based on the current description of the role, I would assume no. It would be kind of hard to "force" something down somebody's throat while remaining unnoticed. I think a fair way to go about it would be for the drinker to know who the scientist is, and the scientist will still be oblivious to the person's old/new role.

Moar scientist questions (it's an interesting role to me ;x) I know you've said the potential results of a vial differs from game to game. Will you be giving us any sort of probability? For example, I wouldn't even want to use a vial if it's a coin flip whether or not the person remains on the human side. Especially if I've done a lot of hard work convincing myself User X is a human. Giving someone a vial wipes the slate clean.

Honestly, I think the negatives of using a vial on someone outweigh the positives. I believe it would be a much better, and useful role, if it could not change a human into a wolf - just change a user's role, or give a wolf added abilities.

If we compare it to something like Vigilante, the flaws of scientist become more clear. Of course every role has a negative and positive effect. Best case scenario for Vigilante is he shoots a wolf (and lets the population know he can be trusted.) Worst case scenario is he shoots a human (yet also letting the human population know he can be trusted). These are pretty much the only two outcomes of this role.

Scientist, on the other hand, their bads outweigh the goods. It will be stressful enough finding a player who you are near certain is human. Then once you find this human (preferably just a vanilla civvie,) your hard work could be out the door, because he could potentially become an enemy. In this case, it would be more useful and safe to just keep him role-less, as it will definitely keep one more human on your team and you know he can be trusted. So the only good thing that comes from Mad Scientist is a probable event that a human will change their role into something more useful. The bad things, however:
  1. Turn a trusted human into a wolf
  2. Give a wolf a bigger advantage
Okay, so it's just 2v1. I still think the negative outcomes outweigh the positive ones. Not to mention, if it's late-game, I'm a human, and I'm hell-bent to beat the Wolves, if the next day I magically become a wolf, why expect me to jump ship? Thoughts?

TL;DR: Remove a Vial's chance of turning a human into a wolf.

If there's a 5% chance of a vial turning someone into a wolf, I would much rather there just be a 5% chance of out-right killing the human instead.
nardii
271 posts
Here since the beginning
nardii
Wii would like to join!

Well, just me really, but you get what I mean.

Also, to the above: I agree, I would probably not want to use my ability if there's a high chance it turns a trusted person into a wolf that then has a huge advantage.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

Also, any target being up-and-about at night cannot prevent them from being killed by a Wolf (only a GA protect can shield someone from a Wolf kill).
But what about a Ninja kill?

Rolled: You bring up a good argument. I have two "solutions":

You can promote like this:
Vanilla Townie => Aux Townie => Vanilla Wolf => Aux Wolf => Aux Aux Wolf => ...

If you give someone a vial, their role shifts one to the right. So, if you know someone is Vanilla Townie, you'll be giving them an Aux role. But if you know someone is Townie, you'll be giving them an Aux role or turning them into a Wolf.

Another solution is to kill the player instead of turning that player into a Wolf.

Both these solutions can combine to form a better solution; 25% chance the player dies, 12% chance the player is an Aux Townie (varies depending upon the game), leads to a 38% chance something bad happens if you randomly vial a Townie.

But how about we just remove the MS outright? ;P
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
Don't remove it :( It's one of my favorite role ideas. It's a game make or breaker.

I like the first solution. One thing to add though.
The sure-most way to effectively use a vial would be to give it to the vigilante after he has used his bullet (hence, having no current abilities.) Using strager's first solution, would this make him wolf or have an another role?
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Rolled wrote:

The sure-most way to effectively use a vial would be to give it to the vigilante after he has used his bullet (hence, having no current abilities.) Using strager's first solution, would this make him wolf or have an another role?
Wolf, of course. Whether or not he has a gun does not determine if he holds an Aux role.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Rolled wrote:

Don't remove it :( It's one of my favorite role ideas. It's a game make or breaker.
That's kinda one reason why I don't like this role. =]
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
You support your arguments well, Rolled, but still, you have not convinced me to remove MS vials' ability to turn Humans into Wolves. The necessary risk factor would result in more careful thinking on the part of the MS. Also, I haven't used the role yet (and as stated before, don't intend to unless we get a ridiculous number of signups), but I really don't think it'd be a 50/50 coinflip-type chance between human aux vs. wolf transformation. It'd probably be more 80/20 or 85/15-ish I think I like 90/10-ish better, leaning toward different Aux roles the player could gain (with the 10% being a transformation into a Wolf).

As for the anonymity of the MS when they use their ability, that depends on the nature of the theme (because it depends on the nature of the administration of the concoction). For example, in a typical WWG, if you literally did have a vial to shove down their throat, this, clearly, would awaken them, and they'd see you. You would not retain your anonymity. However, in themes like this one, or high-tech stuff like small needle guns that might not wake the subject, you would remain anonymous because the method of administration would (presumably) not wake the subject.

As for the MS drinking their own vial being a win/win: Thank you for unwittingly supporting my decision to not let MSs do that. :3

Also, status is updated with Nardi's signup.
Mashley
2,042 posts
Joined September 2008
Mashley
I'd join if it wasn't touhou themed.
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun
what are you talking about ash this game is going to be so fun when you don't know any of the references :U
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

strager wrote:

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

Also, any target being up-and-about at night cannot prevent them from being killed by a Wolf (only a GA protect can shield someone from a Wolf kill).
But what about a Ninja kill?
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
Also only stoppable by a GA protect.
DJblackthorne
2 posts
Joined May 2010
DJblackthorne
If you don't mind having a new guy i would like in.

Also, what was talked about during the days while the game was active, was it roleplay chatter or a variant of normal off-topic discussion?
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled

DJblackthorne wrote:

If you don't mind having a new guy i would like in.

Also, what was talked about during the days while the game was active, was it roleplay chatter or a variant of normal off-topic discussion?
A few people got pretty into the role-playing aspect of the game. Don't feel inclined, though.
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
You may, of course, roleplay (a decent portion of players always do, and I'd suggest it, it helps the mood of the game, in my opinion), but you don't have to. Some people just place their mandatory vote and say nothing else all Day, or use cold hard logic to determine the best choice of player for their vote (nothing wrong with either of those things either; the variety of players is what makes every WWG unique).

Also: Status is updated.
Pasonia
osu! Alumni
1,199 posts
Joined October 2008
Pasonia
-
Last edited by Pasonia , edited 1 time in total.
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
1. That was the only thing I really thought hard about. I coulda done Yuyuko (as she's the princess of that realm), I coulda said Komachi, but in the end, I chose Youmu. She does deal occasionally with ghosts, so I figured it was at least somewhat appropriate, unless you guys want Komachi instead or something.

2. Your signup is noted.
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
I will play
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old
Sign me up.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
fff Two
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Two wrote:

I will play
omg<#
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun

Two wrote:

I will play
who
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
Status updated with Two and Chris's signups.

We have 2 more days until the stated deadline, but I may allow another 2-3 days if we seem a bit closer to 20 players.
nardii
271 posts
Here since the beginning
nardii
You know, your timezone is actually GMT -4. GMT is the UK, and then to the left is negative and to the right is positive. I remember seeing it in earlier games as well and it's starting to bother me :?
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun
he's right, also we (east coast) are on EDT, not EST because of daylight savings
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

nardi11011 wrote:

You know, your timezone is actually GMT -4. GMT is the UK, and then to the left is negative and to the right is positive. I remember seeing it in earlier games as well and it's starting to bother me :?
I told A<3 about this a while (few days) ago. She's too lazy to change it, I guess.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: #3
4,845 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
God I had completely forgotten I had signed up for this
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
I think I'll sign up.
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
1) Status is updated with PieGuy's signup.

2) Corrected my timezone indication again. Is it quite right now? o.O My mental math sucks; though I think it's awesome to have people from other countries playing, I've always hated trying to do timezone math. -.-

3) I'd like 20 players, which I think is pretty realistic by 11 PM; although, I might extend the deadline just a bit to Sunday or something if I get no more signups and still have 17 people by the original deadline. (Maybe.)

Edit-in 4) Strager: I thought you'd heard by now, that I'm a guy? o.o
jockeytiyan
1,269 posts
Joined July 2009
jockeytiyan
Ace is a girl, yet I tend to nudge if I will sign-up or not...



BTW, long time no see, Ace. :P



SPOILER
I might as well give it a go then...

SPOILER
If you're wondering...

SPOILER
I just want to annoy you...

SPOILER
Yes I'm signing up.

SPOILER
I like chili fries. <3
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
It has been a long time.

Joining since School Holidays are coming up.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
That brings it to 19 players...

That's a lot.
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
Signups are updated with JockeyTiyan and MarioBros (and by the way Jockey, I like chili dogs, myself).

I'm hoping for one more at some point in the next 11 hours.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
BTW, you should also consider having replacements - those who want to join the game (maybe when it's starting already), but since the game has started, an impossibility.

In case someone quits or something, the replacement could fill in.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

Strager: I thought you'd heard by now, that I'm a guy? o.o
He does that with everyone (or at least those with female/girly avatars) :p
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