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kddk versus ddkk [Pro/Con/Your Opinions]

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Total Posts
54
Intelli
842 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
Intelli
I just wanted to see what everyone else thought. I believe the majority of everyone uses kddk, but I myself prefer ddkk, so I've decided to make a pro/con chart for both.

kddk

Pro
  1. Fast BPM streams easier to do, as dddddddd and kkkkkkkk can be done with 2 hands

  2. It looks like the HUD drum

  3. It's the default, so everyone usually starts out with it

  4. dkdkdk can be done with 1 hand in slow sections, in order to give the other hand a rest
Con
  1. Little bit awkward to learn

  2. Finishes in general are more complex at first

  3. Shakers/Spinner can't be done with 2 index fingers

  4. Fast patterns that switch between d and k (like kkkdddkkkddd) are awkward (at least for me)
ddkk

Pro
  1. Finishes much more simple to learn how to do

  2. Less harsh learning curve

  3. dkdkdkdkdk patterns are really easy

  4. ONE HAND FINISHES BB

  5. Shakers/Spinners can be done with 2 index fingers

  6. Fast patterns that switch between d and k (such as kkkdddkkkddd) are easier
Con
  1. dddddd and kkkkkkk are death

  2. Dd, dD, kK and Kk are also death

  3. 2 hands. Always.

  4. Harder to understand at a glance as it looks completely different then the HUD drum

  5. Did I mention that dddddd and kkkkkk are death? 'Cos they are.
Those are just my thoughts, and my bindings are zx for d and nm for k. What do you guys think?
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
karterfreak
dkdkdkdkdkdkd patterns are the same for ddkk and kddk (both involve switching from one hand to the other when played properly)

Shortened version of this is that monocolour streams like dddddddddd / kkkkkkkkkkkk kinda suck to play with ddkk, but there are ways around it and you can learn to play up to 240bpm without many issues.

kddk any patterns that have heavy hand switching kinda suck (kddkddk is a good example when played full alt) and complex 1/6 patterns can be a pain in the butt. When learned properly however, it is easily the best playstyle.

tl;dr play with what you want, only the end score matters, though if you're aiming to be a top 10 player, you might want to learn kddk.
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun

Tasha wrote:

and complex 1/6 patterns can be a pain in the butt
lolatmyakashafail

played both playstyles so i'll lolstuff

IntelliTroodon wrote:

kddk

Pro
  1. Fast BPM streams easier to do, as dddddddd and kkkkkkkk can be done with 2 hands -> except that they still are painful and end up residing in your jackhammer speed (and hand speed difference can be very brutal)

  2. It looks like the HUD drum uh yes

  3. It's the default, so everyone usually starts out with it uh yes too

  4. dkdkdk can be done with 1 hand in slow sections, in order to give the other hand a rest or, you could just say 1/2. except when you yolo like me and you do that up to 145-150 bpm
Con
  1. Little bit awkward to learn not really, since your hands are as symmetrical as the layout you'll end up associating middle = k and index = d

  2. Finishes in general are more complex at first i can't say anything i can hit DDDD 1/4 at 155

  3. Shakers/Spinner can't be done with 2 index fingers every 2-finger player ever will beg to differ

  4. Fast patterns that switch between d and k (like kkkdddkkkddd) are awkward (at least for me) it's easier once you get the hang of fullalt, but yeah the 3-point based patterns (ddkddk/dkkdkk/kddkdd/kkkddd/dddkkk/kkdkkd) are harder
ddkk

Pro
  1. Finishes much more simple to learn how to do jackhammer skills enter in

  2. Less harsh learning curve um

  3. dkdkdkdkdk patterns are really easy actually like kddk

  4. ONE HAND FINISHES BB JACKHAMMER SKILL BB

  5. Shakers/Spinners can be done with 2 index fingers i use my middle and index :D

  6. Fast patterns that switch between d and k (such as kkkdddkkkddd) are easier probably
Con
  1. dddddd and kkkkkkk are death rip

  2. Dd, dD, kK and Kk are also death unless you just yolo out and ONE HAND FINISHES BB

  3. 2 hands. Always. firce beg— oh wait he's both kddk and ddkk

  4. Harder to understand at a glance as it looks completely different then the HUD drum what HUD

  5. Did I mention that dddddd and kkkkkk are death? 'Cos they are. rip
Juuryoushin
2,491 posts
Joined December 2010
Juuryoushin
Since I play with 2 index only i'll give my opinion too. So please note that my answers are from a 2-index point of view (lewd lol), exclude the rest.
I can only do it with kddk however ;_;

IntelliTroodon wrote:

kddk

Pro
  1. Fast BPM streams easier to do, as dddddddd and kkkkkkkk can be done with 2 hands => Kinda, until you hit a very high bpm like 240+, it becomes extremely tiring to do.

  2. It looks like the HUD drum => Remember that you have only 2 sticks with a real HUD drum, exactly like my config does in term of numbers.

  3. It's the default, so everyone usually starts out with it => Yeah, naturally.

  4. dkdkdk can be done with 1 hand in slow sections, in order to give the other hand a rest => Maybe similar to the 1/2 thing, it's all about speed.
Con
  1. Little bit awkward to learn => It remains pretty logical so not really. I admit that the learning curve becomes shit later on.

  2. Finishes in general are more complex at first => The real pain starts here, try to get an almost-simultaneous hit with only 2 index, it's laughably hard.

  3. Shakers/Spinner can't be done with 2 index fingers => You can learn how to spin fast seprarately, it's not really a problem if you know how to quickly shift from 4 fingers to 2 while doing that. (lol it feels like cheating on that point)

  4. Fast patterns that switch between d and k (like kkkdddkkkddd) are awkward (at least for me) => Agreed, these are one of my primary sources of shitmisses because I keep misexecuting them while reading correctly.
I'd like to add, I seriously think that 1/6s are real killers, if you fail to get the right rhythm/speed (and switching colours at the same time) you're gonna have a hard time recovering from your misses since you can't really freely spam like a 4-finger player would do. Even a high BPM endless stream has that, it's extremely hard to keep a balance when it lasts for too long. (look at Shinsekai or its Haya version for instance.)
XK2238
2,066 posts
Joined October 2011
XK2238
just wanna add a tiny bit that ddkk configs make uber-high BPM kkddkkddkkddkkdd... streams a piece of cake :U mashing spinners becomes (slightly, at least) harder though
kddk goes the other way around

(yeah, I played both styles too)
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

IntelliTroodon wrote:

I just wanted to see what everyone else thought. I believe the majority of everyone uses kddk, but I myself prefer ddkk, so I've decided to make a pro/con chart for both.

kddk

Pro
  1. Fast BPM streams easier to do, as dddddddd and kkkkkkkk can be done with 2 hands yup

  2. It looks like the HUD drum yah

  3. It's the default, so everyone usually starts out with it kinda true

  4. dkdkdk can be done with 1 hand in slow sections, in order to give the other hand a rest I'd never do that as a full alt player
Con
  1. Little bit awkward to learn REALLYawkward

  2. Finishes in general are more complex at first kind of, ye

  3. Shakers/Spinner can't be done with 2 index fingers I spam all buttons kd kd kd kd kd kd or viceversa, so it's not a problem anymore

  4. Fast patterns that switch between d and k (like kkkdddkkkddd) are awkward (at least for me) yessss I thought I was the only one. I mean, ddkkddk is easy for me, but dddkkkdddk is NOTTTT!!!!!!111oneone
ddkk

Pro
  1. Finishes much more simple to learn how to do

  2. Less harsh learning curve

  3. dkdkdkdkdk patterns are really easy

  4. ONE HAND FINISHES BB

  5. Shakers/Spinners can be done with 2 index fingers

  6. Fast patterns that switch between d and k (such as kkkdddkkkddd) are easier
Con
  1. dddddd and kkkkkkk are death

  2. Dd, dD, kK and Kk are also death

  3. 2 hands. Always.

  4. Harder to understand at a glance as it looks completely different then the HUD drum

  5. Did I mention that dddddd and kkkkkk are death? 'Cos they are.
Those are just my thoughts, and my bindings are zx for d and nm for k. What do you guys think?

You forgot to separate single tappers and full alternaters in both sides. Yes it might be a bit weird to full alternate in ddkk, but hey, some poeple do.

I myself play kddk in full-alternate style. And yes, I've hit a wall (skill-wise) as high as the Empire State. Can't advance for sh** right now, and it gets really frustrating.


PS: didn't mention pros and cons of ddkk because I've never played it sooo...
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
I only play kddk so I will talk about that. This is more of a general consensus instead of my personal views.

Pros: (ST = singletap ALT = full alternate)
This is all assuming you are using 4 fingers to play.

ST/ALT - Single color patterns can be done with both hands for better stability/accuracy and comfort.

ST/ALT - Spinners can be done with ease alternating dkdkdkd across 4 fingers. (v c z x v c z x v c z x for example)

ST/ALT - 1/6 combos are generally easier with two hands. ddkkddkkddkk 1/6 being the only exception, much easier on ddkk style using the same technique as spinners.

ST - Finishers won't ruin your rhythm/flow because you keep rhythm on 1 hand.

ALT - Stamina on high BPM won't be a huge issue compared to ST.

ST - Accuracy is generally easier because you aren't focusing on alternating each note. (This probably won't count after playing ALT for a long time though)

Cons:
Still assuming you are using 4 fingers.

ST - Stamina will be your downfall at higher BPM. Going into the higher 200's while using your left/right hand for the majority rhythm will hurt and require practice.

ST - Offbeat patterns like doubles and quads can be annoying because you will start patterns/maintain rhythm on your opposite hand sometimes.

ALT - Finishers will usually destroy your constant alternating note flow/rhythm unless the finisher has a break after it. But more dense patterns with finishers will be a pain.
Intelli
842 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
Intelli
I agree with you for the most part, but as for the mashing spinner thing, I think it's equal because (using the keys zxcv as an example for both styles, just different orders), zczc/xvxv fels just as easy as xcxc/zczc/xvxv/zvzv, at least to me.

Also that avatar is 8/8 MMzz.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

MMzz wrote:

I only play kddk so I will talk about that. This is more of a general consensus instead of my personal views.

Pros: (ST = singletap ALT = full alternate)
This is all assuming you are using 4 fingers to play.

ST/ALT - Single color patterns can be done with both hands for better stability/accuracy and comfort.

ST/ALT - Spinners can be done with ease alternating dkdkdkd across 4 fingers. (v c z x v c z x v c z x for example)

ST/ALT - 1/6 combos are generally easier with two hands. ddkkddkkddkk 1/6 being the only exception, much easier on ddkk style using the same technique as spinners.

ST - Finishers won't ruin your rhythm/flow because you keep rhythm on 1 hand.

ALT - Stamina on high BPM won't be a huge issue compared to ST.

ST - Accuracy is generally easier because you aren't focusing on alternating each note. (This probably won't count after playing ALT for a long time though)

Cons:
Still assuming you are using 4 fingers.

ST - Stamina will be your downfall at higher BPM. Going into the higher 200's while using your left/right hand for the majority rhythm will hurt and require practice.

ST - Offbeat patterns like doubles and quads can be annoying because you will start patterns/maintain rhythm on your opposite hand sometimes.

ALT - Finishers will usually destroy your constant alternating note flow/rhythm unless the finisher has a break after it. But more dense patterns with finishers will be a pain.

Yeah, I must corroborate that. Bignotes (or Finishers) are my doom and will always be my doom. Take for example the song Burn from Ellie Goulding. It's only 4,0X stars yet I can't even pass it, when I've passed (not FCd obviously) 200bpm 4,5+ songs (Freedom Dive, Tokyo Teddy Bear for example).

Those Bignotes just destroy everything I love. Satan himself created the finishers
ikin5050
586 posts
Joined February 2014
ikin5050

IntelliTroodon wrote:

I just wanted to see what everyone else thought. I believe the majority of everyone uses kddk, but I myself prefer ddkk, so I've decided to make a pro/con chart for both.

kddk

Pro
  1. Fast BPM streams easier to do, as dddddddd and kkkkkkkk can be done with 2 hands so? it's still rape

  2. It looks like the HUD drum performance > aesthetics

  3. It's the default, so everyone usually starts out with it not true but yea

  4. dkdkdk can be done with 1 hand in slow sections, in order to give the other hand a rest
true true

Con
  1. Little bit awkward to learn

  2. Finishes in general are more complex at first yes

  3. Shakers/Spinner can't be done with 2 index fingers who even does that?

  4. Fast patterns that switch between d and k (like kkkdddkkkddd) are awkward (at least for me)
ALTERNATION D:

most of the time really fast notes can be done better with kddk than dd kk

ddkk

Pro
  1. Finishes much more simple to learn how to do it feels more natural to me

  2. Less harsh learning curve

  3. dkdkdkdkdk patterns are really easy err NOOOOOO, it requires a lot of precision to do long patterns that alternate colors especially at higher bpm

  4. ONE HAND FINISHES BB exactly

  5. Shakers/Spinners can be done with 2 index fingers or just use all 4?

  6. Fast patterns that switch between d and k (such as kkkdddkkkddd) are easier
just roll 'em off the keyboard

Con
  1. dddddd and kkkkkkk are death they are as well with kddk

  2. Dd, dD, kK and Kk are also death but that's only in converts, not in ranked taiko sets

  3. 2 hands. Always. two hand training, requires both hands to train equally to prevent 1 becoming dominant

  4. Harder to understand at a glance as it looks completely different then the HUD drum performance > aesthetics

  5. Did I mention that dddddd and kkkkkk are death? 'Cos they are.
yesyou did

Those are just my thoughts, and my bindings are zx for d and nm for k. What do you guys think?

for some converts with really fast like 1/8 i play with g hj k so i can put both index fingers on either color quickly :D, makes me feel special
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
As a full alt kddk player, here's my view:

Pros:
  1. Insane stamina.
  2. Streams are easier to read, because you play them as everything else you do, just faster.
  3. 1/6 inside streams are not as complicated because you shouldn't have a dominant hand (I still do though ;_;)
  4. dddkkkdddk patterns are easier than without alternating, because when you have ddd kkk ddd kkk (which can be common) or ddk kkd ddk kkd, you are already doing what you would do at dddkkkdddk, just with breaks in between, but it's still more difficult than with ddkk.
Cons:
  1. Finishers are death. If you play with a reset after it, when you have multiple in a row with some notes in between, things get really really complicated (for example, Burn). If you don't play with a reset after it, it gets even more confusing because you have to memorize what hand did you use before and spam using that hand, which essentially doesn't feel like alternating anymore.
  2. Streams are harder to perform.
  3. Short consecutive 1/6 bursts can be very confusing because you start the next pattern with the same hand you did the last one.
  4. Doubles, quads and other even-numbered rhythms can be really awkward to do, especially at higher bpm.
  5. Offbeat kats during streams can ruin the balance and then you start missing.
  6. More difficult to keep accuracy in check.
  7. Really difficult to learn, especially if you have to spread the rhythm to both hands.
I'd say, just because of the stamina, it's worth trying full alt.
With enough practice, I suppose everything is doable with full alt. :p
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

lolcubes wrote:

As a full alt kddk player, here's my view:

Pros:
  1. Insane stamina.
  2. Streams are easier to read, because you play them as everything else you do, just faster.
  3. 1/6 inside streams are not as complicated because you shouldn't have a dominant hand (I still do though ;_;)
  4. dddkkkdddk patterns are easier than without alternating, because when you have ddd kkk ddd kkk (which can be common) or ddk kkd ddk kkd, you are already doing what you would do at dddkkkdddk, just with breaks in between, but it's still more difficult than with ddkk.
Cons:
  1. Finishers are death. If you play with a reset after it, when you have multiple in a row with some notes in between, things get really really complicated (for example, Burn). If you don't play with a reset after it, it gets even more confusing because you have to memorize what hand did you use before and spam using that hand, which essentially doesn't feel like alternating anymore.
  2. Streams are harder to perform.
  3. Short consecutive 1/6 bursts can be very confusing because you start the next pattern with the same hand you did the last one.
  4. Doubles, quads and other even-numbered rhythms can be really awkward to do, especially at higher bpm.
  5. Offbeat kats during streams can ruin the balance and then you start missing.
  6. More difficult to keep accuracy in check.
  7. Really difficult to learn, especially if you have to spread the rhythm to both hands.
I'd say, just because of the stamina, it's worth trying full alt.
With enough practice, I suppose everything is doable with full alt. :p

Everything is doable in any playstyle imo, they just got their cons and their pros. I personally think the limits on every playstyle are put on by the player itself, not the playstyle.

Anyway it's good to see a full alternater like me *high five*
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
karterfreak

Raiden wrote:

Everything is doable in any playstyle imo, they just got their cons and their pros. I personally think the limits on every playstyle are put on by the player itself, not the playstyle.
This is true up until physical limitations of the tendons in your fingers (though I don't feel any players have reached this point yet, at least for ddkk). Certain things become a lot more complicated with some playstyles over others (1/4+1/6+1/3 switching on monocolour patters with ddkk is almost impossible to manage your speed while still playing 1/6 sections properly)
[Ayase Eli]
42 posts
Joined May 2013
[Ayase Eli]
I also feel like this can be expanded a bit into how you use your key-layout. Some people use only one hand to play single-tap patterns in kddk, and some use right index and left ring finger (or vice versa) which changes things a little... Also there's a difference between people who use only 2 fingers for single-tapping patterns and people who use all 4; double-tapping I think they call it in standard (heaven forbid).

I personally feel like I play weird because I use kddk, but I start all my don patterns with my right index finger, and all my kat patterns with my left ring finger. So when people say "X pattern is hard for me (like kkkdddkkkd)," it sounds really weird to me because my easy patterns often end up being hard patterns for other kddk players.
Valth
4 posts
Joined March 2015
Valth
Hello so i nicely got send here and i was thinking .... do the dddddddd / kkkkkkkk pattern really IMPOSSIBLE humanly to do with a ddkk playstyle ??

I really like that way to play and i maneged to get quit good for a beginner with it, i'm trying to change to the kddk system is a bit weird now !
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

Valth wrote:

Hello so i nicely got send here and i was thinking .... do the dddddddd / kkkkkkkk pattern really IMPOSSIBLE humanly to do with a ddkk playstyle ??

I really like that way to play and i maneged to get quit good for a beginner with it, i'm trying to change to the kddk system is a bit weird now !
Imho, if you already got good at that, keep improving on ddkk. I just started full alternating after months without playing, so it was basically like starting from 0, but I got to the level I was before in less than a week. Good luck and keep improving! :)
ikin5050
586 posts
Joined February 2014
ikin5050
ddddddddddd or kkkkkkkkkkk is not impossible, it is just a bit harder to get used to and takes more practice
Valth
4 posts
Joined March 2015
Valth
He he he thanks for the good mood :) I WAS THINKING : Hmmmmm it's maybe a little cheating (?) but i saw that in taiko the right/left mouse clicks are still activated, if i get a program that translate to my PC that 2 keys on my keyboard are the same keys for the right/left mouse it could be nice to put a K near the DD and a D near th KK to easly change to the 8 same-color in a row. Did anyboby tought about that ?
Intelli
842 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
Intelli

Valth wrote:

He he he thanks for the good mood :) I WAS THINKING : Hmmmmm it's maybe a little cheating (?) but i saw that in taiko the right/left mouse clicks are still activated, if i get a program that translate to my PC that 2 keys on my keyboard are the same keys for the right/left mouse it could be nice to put a K near the DD and a D near th KK to easly change to the 8 same-color in a row. Did anyboby tought about that ?
I think there would be a problem with this because the game is designed for 4 keys. It would be like hitting the same key 2 times at once.
Valth
4 posts
Joined March 2015
Valth

IntelliTroodon wrote:

Valth wrote:

He he he thanks for the good mood :) I WAS THINKING : Hmmmmm it's maybe a little cheating (?) but i saw that in taiko the right/left mouse clicks are still activated, if i get a program that translate to my PC that 2 keys on my keyboard are the same keys for the right/left mouse it could be nice to put a K near the DD and a D near th KK to easly change to the 8 same-color in a row. Did anyboby tought about that ?
I think there would be a problem with this because the game is designed for 4 keys. It would be like hitting the same key 2 times at once.

Yeahhhh but you already can ! I mean if you just do understant to the computer that (exemple) D and F would be mouseclick1 and mouseclick2 the game will see NO difference .... if i'm not wrong xD I should give that a test to see if it works at least
verto
307 posts
Joined October 2012
verto

Valth wrote:

He he he thanks for the good mood :) I WAS THINKING : Hmmmmm it's maybe a little cheating (?) but i saw that in taiko the right/left mouse clicks are still activated, if i get a program that translate to my PC that 2 keys on my keyboard are the same keys for the right/left mouse it could be nice to put a K near the DD and a D near th KK to easly change to the 8 same-color in a row. Did anyboby tought about that ?
An old taiko player I knew played a bit similarly to that - he used to keep one of his hands on all the keyboard keys, like you would do with 8K mania, and he used his other hand with the mouse.
StephenLovesJig
7 posts
Joined January 2015
StephenLovesJig
Me being a person who always uses DDKK, I can let you players in on a few tricks I figured out when streaming tons of d's or k's. Only been playing for a little more than 2 months.

Like, when I am tapping fast streams of one color, depending if it switches to another color or not, I use both my index fingers on the keys with the appropriate color. I use the zxcv keys to do DDKK, I know it is super awkward to play with your hands uptight and sometimes rubbing towards each other, my hands aren't very big so the space between my hands when I play is almost as big as doing something like zxnm, askl, or even qwop. Another trick I have for myself which is more of a preference I think, I look a bit to the left of the middle of the game screen, so I can read a bit better. You would be curious how I can time the notes when my eyes are barely looking at the judgement circle where you hit drum notes. I just seem to have a bit of skill to do that.

Now, if you wonder if I always try to hit the big D and K notes, there are many circumstances where I don't do so. Many cases include the Taiko Oni of Freedom Dive, or if there is a stream of D and a mix of little d in that too. An example myself would be similar to the last stream in the aforementioned beatmap difficulty:
dddddddDdddddddKdddddddK
For this, I just hit the big D notes as if they are regular d, as my hands can't stream D notes unless the note per second speed is a bit slow, like 5-7 D or K a second is near my max.

I don't do kddk at all, so I can't really tell you anything about using that scheme.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

StephenLovesJig wrote:

Now, if you wonder if I always try to hit the big D and K notes, there are many circumstances where I don't do so. Many cases include the Taiko Oni of Freedom Dive, or if there is a stream of D and a mix of little d in that too. An example myself would be similar to the last stream in the aforementioned beatmap difficulty:
dddddddDdddddddKdddddddK
For this, I just hit the big D notes as if they are regular d, as my hands can't stream D notes unless the note per second speed is a bit slow, like 5-7 D or K a second is near my max.

I don't do kddk at all, so I can't really tell you anything about using that scheme.
Finishers in the middle of a stream are just converted bu******* and should not exist. In fact, no converted maps should count to the ranking, except the Taikosu! ones. There are many people who have tons of ranks above me yet they can't play a proper Oni. Besides, the Oni from Freedom Dive (4.66 stars) doesn't have any streams of that sort. You probably played a converted version of it.

I mean, the SV changes are unrankable in the Taiko mapsets, so why the heck allow them in converted maps??

Anyway this wasn't the topic to discuss, so I better shut up a bit :^)
NeonPhoenix_old
5 posts
Joined March 2014
NeonPhoenix_old
I've played kddk since I started taiko and I would always play patterns with just my right hand if it wasn't too fast. Now I've come to the point where I have to play these patterns with both hands and I just can't do it. So today I switched to ddkk, I think it will be better for me in the long run.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

NeonPhoenix wrote:

I've played kddk since I started taiko and I would always play patterns with just my right hand if it wasn't too fast. Now I've come to the point where I have to play these patterns with both hands and I just can't do it. So today I switched to ddkk, I think it will be better for me in the long run.
That's what happened to me at first place. I hit a wall as high as the Empire State and couldn't advance, so I first thought of quitting. But then some people talked about "different playstyles" and I decided to try the "full alternate" style as a kddk player. I never felt so badass. I mean, focusing on alternate every note is complicated to learn, but when you learn it, you're able to spread the rhythm to both hands and streams become easier to read, even tho heavy hand changing streams (dddkkkdddk) still screw up my flow, I've managed to advance more than I was first with singletapping.
NeonPhoenix_old
5 posts
Joined March 2014
NeonPhoenix_old

Raiden wrote:

That's what happened to me at first place. I hit a wall as high as the Empire State and couldn't advance, so I first thought of quitting. But then some people talked about "different playstyles" and I decided to try the "full alternate" style as a kddk player. I never felt so badass. I mean, focusing on alternate every note is complicated to learn, but when you learn it, you're able to spread the rhythm to both hands and streams become easier to read, even tho heavy hand changing streams (dddkkkdddk) still screw up my flow, I've managed to advance more than I was first with singletapping.
I alternate all the time when I play standard and I can't do it any other way. So I tried doing the same with taiko but I just couldn't get used to it no matter how much I practiced. I'm finding ddkk a lot more natural to play so I think I'm going to stick with it.
oxxoxooxxxoxo
14 posts
Joined July 2014
oxxoxooxxxoxo
With time and effort kddk outperforms kkdd/ddkk. Also it's pretty.
[Ayase Eli]
42 posts
Joined May 2013
[Ayase Eli]

oxxoxooxxxoxo wrote:

Also it's pretty.
^^^
Why does no one else notice this?
ikin5050
586 posts
Joined February 2014
ikin5050
with time and effort both can be equally good although some have advantages in some areas, like 1/6 is easier kddk but kkddkkddkkddkkdd is much easier ddkk
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

ikin5050 wrote:

with time and effort both can be equally good although some have advantages in some areas, like 1/6 is easier kddk but kkddkkddkkddkkdd is much easier ddkk

I'm a kddk player and ddkkddkkddkkddkk... is hella easy for me. dddkd is not however.
Conor
229 posts
Joined May 2013
Conor
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Last edited by Conor , edited 1 time in total.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
Really fast ddkkddkkddkkddkk can be hit MUCH easier with ddkk though. Same technique as spinners in kddk.
[Ayase Eli]
42 posts
Joined May 2013
[Ayase Eli]

MMzz wrote:

Really fast ddkkddkkddkkddkk can be hit MUCH easier with ddkk though. Same technique as spinners in kddk.
I don't get this at all. Regardless of whether you use kddk or ddkk, you use the same finger motion to do this pattern right? Maybe I'm the only one that does it this way, but it looks to me that the pattern is played the exact same with the only difference being your starting and ending position...
ikin5050
586 posts
Joined February 2014
ikin5050
no for me i use jk as red and gh as blue it is just rolling my fingers jkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkgh and it's really easy, if i were using jh as red and kg as blue it'd be jhkgjhkgjhkgjhkgjhkgjhkgjhkgjhkg
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
karterfreak

Potatocracy wrote:

MMzz wrote:

Really fast ddkkddkkddkkddkk can be hit MUCH easier with ddkk though. Same technique as spinners in kddk.
I don't get this at all. Regardless of whether you use kddk or ddkk, you use the same finger motion to do this pattern right? Maybe I'm the only one that does it this way, but it looks to me that the pattern is played the exact same with the only difference being your starting and ending position...
Gotta agree here with Potatocracy. ddkkddkk repeated is just as easy with ddkk or kddk, as is kddkkddkk or its inverse. Anything in doubles is relatively easy to play and understand for both playstyles. It only gets confusing for kddk when there's a lot of hand swapping for what is considered dominant hand (assuming full alternate here due to talking about streams). That's where ddkk gets an advantage as hand swapping doesn't need to be learned in the same way with ddkk.
[Ayase Eli]
42 posts
Joined May 2013
[Ayase Eli]
Haha I actually came to taiko from mania, so I don't full alternate patterns... In mania you aren't ever allowed the luxury of bouncing your hands back and forth in rhythm thanks to all the complicated patterns, so I'm used to playing with my "fingers" as opposed to my "hands". That probably changes everything since ddkk is for all intensive purposes impossible to full-alt in the same spirit that kddk is...
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

Tasha wrote:

Gotta agree here with Potatocracy. ddkkddkk repeated is just as easy with ddkk or kddk, as is kddkkddkk or its inverse. Anything in doubles is relatively easy to play and understand for both playstyles. It only gets confusing for kddk when there's a lot of hand swapping for what is considered dominant hand (assuming full alternate here due to talking about streams). That's where ddkk gets an advantage as hand swapping doesn't need to be learned in the same way with ddkk.
This.

Hand swapping is much more intuitive with ddkk than with kddk.

Also, patterns or streams that start in d or k are always going to be started with the same hand (meaning if a pattern starts with k you're going to start it with your right hand, whereas if it starts with d you start it with left and so on)

For kddk singletappers this is the same, however for full-alters like me, I have to know how to start every pattern and every stream with both hands. That's why it's a bit awkward to learn. But hey, I chose it, cannot complain so far, I really like this style :)
[Ayase Eli]
42 posts
Joined May 2013
[Ayase Eli]
I have this thing where I have to know what hand/finger to start in order to do patterns right. It's rough sometimes but I definitely like it the most. Unfortunately, I get destroyed by any pattern with rapid dd kk kd or dk. I don't know if those are hard for every keystyle or not, but my kddk single-tapping does not fare well against many doubles.

Does anyone just find rapid uses of dd kk dk and kd flat out easy? If so do tell :cry: :cry:
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

Potatocracy wrote:

I have this thing where I have to know what hand/finger to start in order to do patterns right. It's rough sometimes but I definitely like it the most. Unfortunately, I get destroyed by any pattern with rapid dd kk kd or dk. I don't know if those are hard for every keystyle or not, but my kddk single-tapping does not fare well against many doubles.

Does anyone just find rapid uses of dd kk dk and kd flat out easy? If so do tell :cry: :cry:
I don't. Consecutive doubles that alternate (for example dk dk dd kd dk kd...) are just a straight up pain in my hand.

This because I have to start all of them with the same hand, and you might say "but that would be easier" well it is NOT, because if they're followed by more notes (or specially a triplet or a stream) it just ruins all my rhythm.
salumeca
23 posts
Joined May 2014
salumeca
what if the player also plays std or osu mania? I feel that ddkk would be easier for std players, but what about mania?
Conor
229 posts
Joined May 2013
Conor
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Last edited by Conor , edited 1 time in total.
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
karterfreak

salumeca wrote:

what if the player also plays std or osu mania? I feel that ddkk would be easier for std players, but what about mania?
I actually learned ddkk because I found it easier to understand coming from 4k stepmania. They obviously don't play the exact same but it helped me understand the patterns a lot easier.
Sy[K]es
63 posts
Joined July 2010
Sy[K]es
Am I the only person that uses dk dk?;3;
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

Sy[K]es wrote:

Am I the only person that uses dk dk?;3;
No. If I remember correctly there was a top player who used it (was it TimmyAkmed?)
Nofool
Elite Mapper
1,108 posts
Joined February 2011
Nofool
dkdk = kddk
yeah Timmy mainly plays dkdk
he can decently play kddk or ddkk since he tried pretty much every possible playstyle tho
Eeneehaww30PH
71 posts
Joined July 2014
Eeneehaww30PH
I was really playing The Arcade Taiko no Tatsujin, so It's obvious I'm Using the kddk way.

Pros:
-Yep, As many said, One-colour streams are easy.
-fingertaps are spread, I mean not only one finger does more work than the other.
-can lessen the pain in Fast BPM'S (unsure)
-spinners are good for me tho. as I use the Left K and the Right D.
-1/3 or 1/6 was kinda confusing, But I can ride on, as I alternate the hits from left to right and V/V.
-I have more experience in the arcade, and single handed might not be a good idea, (also the above comment) I alternate the hits to Lefts and Rights.

-Cons:
-hard to relocate the position. especially when close.
-Big Notes or Finishes are hard to Achieve.
-One Color streams are dangerous, especially to some who have a bit of experience, the hands can synchronize the hits instead of alternating.
-mostly of these saying: it's hard to coordinate your hands in some patterns. :D

I use zxcv also.
BabySnakes
89 posts
Joined July 2014
BabySnakes
As a kkdd player kkddkkddkkdd combos seem very easy to me. Even though I tried to swap to kddk,the frustation of doing all from the beginning isnt what im looking for. In kkdd style I find kkkkkkkkkk streams easy to do because I use k to do sliders. But when it comes the ddddddd stream, I can barely alternate because I made my left hand dominant.
Kkdd learning curve is easier to overcome if you dont let one of your hands become dominant. And if it does, you can have a very tough time getting out of that hole.
Besides being a complete sh** in kddk. Kddk is harder to understand at beginning. Meanwhile as kkdd is easier for a new player, in the long run it can make you have a bad time later on
Catgirl
472 posts
Joined June 2013
Catgirl
I've been playing ddkk for almost 2 years now so I guess I'm qualified to give my feedback and suggestions for anyone who is starting out as ddkk/kkdd.

If you've not been playing very long:
Try to switch to kddk. Commit yourself to learning. There isn't much difference between ddkk and kddk at lower levels. It's harder to learn at the beginning, but if you are able to learn it then you'll have an easier time adjusting to harder maps later on.

If you've been playing ddkk for a while and can't switch:
Play maps that challenge you. Play maps with difficult but playable patterns. Have fun with some deathstream maps. Don't torture yourself by trying to FC long 200bpm monocolor 1/6 streams. You can always get better as long as you have the right mindset and enjoy playing.


For me, the learning curve going back to learning kddk was way too difficult, and I didn't enjoy struggling to FC 3-4* when I can pass 6-7* Oni as ddkk. There was a time when I could barely pass 5* maps and now I can read almost any kind of pattern. Even though ddkk is a more difficult playstyle at higher levels and it's harder to make quick improvements, you can definitely improve if you just keep playing more.

In terms of reading ddkk, I look at patterns by the number of consecutive monocolor notes in a row. Because of this, I have some difficulties with longer monocolor patterns such as kdddddk, ddkkkkk, and anything in 1/3 with more than 3 notes of the same color. When I get more used to a map I can judge a pattern's length by knowing which finger to end the pattern on.

When I try to play kddk I have a hard time with reading though, because in my opinion the reading style for streams with kddk is completely different than ddkk. Assuming you play full alternating streams (I use 2 index fingers as kddk), you either have muscle memory for the pattern, or you split every pattern into groups of 2 or 4 notes and kind of read every other note to know which key to press on each hand. Now I'm no kddk expert but I feel like the major change in reading is the main reason switching to kddk from ddkk is so difficult for a lot of people.

So yeah, kddk is the superior playstyle, there's no question there. It feels more natural for me to play ddkk because I'm more used to it, and while it definitely has its limitations, you shouldn't force yourself to switch unless you're pretty early on in your playing career. I personally want to see how far I can climb as a ddkk player. Unless you have serious aspirations to reach #1 (even top 50 would be a challenge), just play whatever's comfortable for you, and keep enjoying the game, and you'll improve. :D
Dargin
133 posts
Joined September 2015
Dargin

MMzz wrote:

I only play kddk so I will talk about that. This is more of a general consensus instead of my personal views.
Pros: (ST = singletap ALT = full alternate)
This is all assuming you are using 4 fingers to play. k
ST/ALT - Single color patterns can be done with both hands for better stability/accuracy and comfort. unless you play standard a lot, then one hand would possibly be more cozy
ST/ALT - Spinners can be done with ease alternating dkdkdkd across 4 fingers. (v c z x v c z x v c z x for example) Das fun times
ST/ALT - 1/6 combos are generally easier with two hands. ddkkddkkddkk 1/6 being the only exception, much easier on ddkk style using the same technique as spinners. Sorta, goes both ways
ST - Finishers won't ruin your rhythm/flow because you keep rhythm on 1 hand. All the bonus points!
ALT - Stamina on high BPM won't be a huge issue compared to ST. Unless you're me.. 260bpm singletapping FTW!
ST - Accuracy is generally easier because you aren't focusing on alternating each note. (This probably won't count after playing ALT for a long time though) All tha points dude!
Cons:
Still assuming you are using 4 fingers.
ST - Stamina will be your downfall at higher BPM. Going into the higher 200's while using your left/right hand for the majority rhythm will hurt and require practice. *cough* "Practice"
ST - Offbeat patterns like doubles and quads can be annoying because you will start patterns/maintain rhythm on your opposite hand sometimes. unless you have like an alternating single-tappy sense. sorta, idk im ambidextrous
ALT - Finishers will usually destroy your constant alternating note flow/rhythm unless the finisher has a break after it. But more dense patterns with finishers will be a pain. RIP Bonus points :(
Brimothy
5 posts
Joined December 2013
Brimothy
I'm playing with xbox controller on kddk style.
Joke :) well it DOES work somehow tho.
I can play ddkk quite on a decent level ( at least in my opinion) and kddk for some easy Oni maps that aren't too fast.
I gotta say that kddk definitely improved my accuracy and i hope that I will get way better with it but ddkk is quite a funny
playstyle for complex streams patterns that proof somewhat easier to read that way.
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