This is true up until physical limitations of the tendons in your fingers (though I don't feel any players have reached this point yet, at least for ddkk). Certain things become a lot more complicated with some playstyles over others (1/4+1/6+1/3 switching on monocolour patters with ddkk is almost impossible to manage your speed while still playing 1/6 sections properly)Raiden wrote:
Everything is doable in any playstyle imo, they just got their cons and their pros. I personally think the limits on every playstyle are put on by the player itself, not the playstyle.
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kddk versus ddkk [Pro/Con/Your Opinions]
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I also feel like this can be expanded a bit into how you use your key-layout. Some people use only one hand to play single-tap patterns in kddk, and some use right index and left ring finger (or vice versa) which changes things a little... Also there's a difference between people who use only 2 fingers for single-tapping patterns and people who use all 4; double-tapping I think they call it in standard (heaven forbid).
I personally feel like I play weird because I use kddk, but I start all my don patterns with my right index finger, and all my kat patterns with my left ring finger. So when people say "X pattern is hard for me (like kkkdddkkkd)," it sounds really weird to me because my easy patterns often end up being hard patterns for other kddk players.
I personally feel like I play weird because I use kddk, but I start all my don patterns with my right index finger, and all my kat patterns with my left ring finger. So when people say "X pattern is hard for me (like kkkdddkkkd)," it sounds really weird to me because my easy patterns often end up being hard patterns for other kddk players.
Hello so i nicely got send here and i was thinking .... do the dddddddd / kkkkkkkk pattern really IMPOSSIBLE humanly to do with a ddkk playstyle ??
I really like that way to play and i maneged to get quit good for a beginner with it, i'm trying to change to the kddk system is a bit weird now !
I really like that way to play and i maneged to get quit good for a beginner with it, i'm trying to change to the kddk system is a bit weird now !
Imho, if you already got good at that, keep improving on ddkk. I just started full alternating after months without playing, so it was basically like starting from 0, but I got to the level I was before in less than a week. Good luck and keep improving!Valth wrote:
Hello so i nicely got send here and i was thinking .... do the dddddddd / kkkkkkkk pattern really IMPOSSIBLE humanly to do with a ddkk playstyle ??
I really like that way to play and i maneged to get quit good for a beginner with it, i'm trying to change to the kddk system is a bit weird now !
ddddddddddd or kkkkkkkkkkk is not impossible, it is just a bit harder to get used to and takes more practice
He he he thanks for the good mood I WAS THINKING : Hmmmmm it's maybe a little cheating (?) but i saw that in taiko the right/left mouse clicks are still activated, if i get a program that translate to my PC that 2 keys on my keyboard are the same keys for the right/left mouse it could be nice to put a K near the DD and a D near th KK to easly change to the 8 same-color in a row. Did anyboby tought about that ?
I WAS THINKING : Hmmmmm it's maybe a little cheating (?) but i saw that in taiko the right/left mouse clicks are still activated, if i get a program that translate to my PC that 2 keys on my keyboard are the same keys for the right/left mouse it could be nice to put a K near the DD and a D near th KK to easly change to the 8 same-color in a row. Did anyboby tought about that ?
Topic Starter
I think there would be a problem with this because the game is designed for 4 keys. It would be like hitting the same key 2 times at once.Valth wrote:
He he he thanks for the good mood
IntelliTroodon wrote:
I think there would be a problem with this because the game is designed for 4 keys. It would be like hitting the same key 2 times at once.Valth wrote:
He he he thanks for the good mood
Yeahhhh but you already can ! I mean if you just do understant to the computer that (exemple) D and F would be mouseclick1 and mouseclick2 the game will see NO difference .... if i'm not wrong xD I should give that a test to see if it works at least
An old taiko player I knew played a bit similarly to that - he used to keep one of his hands on all the keyboard keys, like you would do with 8K mania, and he used his other hand with the mouse.Valth wrote:
He he he thanks for the good mood
Me being a person who always uses DDKK, I can let you players in on a few tricks I figured out when streaming tons of d's or k's. Only been playing for a little more than 2 months.
Like, when I am tapping fast streams of one color, depending if it switches to another color or not, I use both my index fingers on the keys with the appropriate color. I use the zxcv keys to do DDKK, I know it is super awkward to play with your hands uptight and sometimes rubbing towards each other, my hands aren't very big so the space between my hands when I play is almost as big as doing something like zxnm, askl, or even qwop. Another trick I have for myself which is more of a preference I think, I look a bit to the left of the middle of the game screen, so I can read a bit better. You would be curious how I can time the notes when my eyes are barely looking at the judgement circle where you hit drum notes. I just seem to have a bit of skill to do that.
Now, if you wonder if I always try to hit the big D and K notes, there are many circumstances where I don't do so. Many cases include the Taiko Oni of Freedom Dive, or if there is a stream of D and a mix of little d in that too. An example myself would be similar to the last stream in the aforementioned beatmap difficulty:
dddddddDdddddddKdddddddK
For this, I just hit the big D notes as if they are regular d, as my hands can't stream D notes unless the note per second speed is a bit slow, like 5-7 D or K a second is near my max.
I don't do kddk at all, so I can't really tell you anything about using that scheme.
Like, when I am tapping fast streams of one color, depending if it switches to another color or not, I use both my index fingers on the keys with the appropriate color. I use the zxcv keys to do DDKK, I know it is super awkward to play with your hands uptight and sometimes rubbing towards each other, my hands aren't very big so the space between my hands when I play is almost as big as doing something like zxnm, askl, or even qwop. Another trick I have for myself which is more of a preference I think, I look a bit to the left of the middle of the game screen, so I can read a bit better. You would be curious how I can time the notes when my eyes are barely looking at the judgement circle where you hit drum notes. I just seem to have a bit of skill to do that.
Now, if you wonder if I always try to hit the big D and K notes, there are many circumstances where I don't do so. Many cases include the Taiko Oni of Freedom Dive, or if there is a stream of D and a mix of little d in that too. An example myself would be similar to the last stream in the aforementioned beatmap difficulty:
dddddddDdddddddKdddddddK
For this, I just hit the big D notes as if they are regular d, as my hands can't stream D notes unless the note per second speed is a bit slow, like 5-7 D or K a second is near my max.
I don't do kddk at all, so I can't really tell you anything about using that scheme.
Finishers in the middle of a stream are just converted bu******* and should not exist. In fact, no converted maps should count to the ranking, except the Taikosu! ones. There are many people who have tons of ranks above me yet they can't play a proper Oni. Besides, the Oni from Freedom Dive (4.66 stars) doesn't have any streams of that sort. You probably played a converted version of it.StephenLovesJig wrote:
Now, if you wonder if I always try to hit the big D and K notes, there are many circumstances where I don't do so. Many cases include the Taiko Oni of Freedom Dive, or if there is a stream of D and a mix of little d in that too. An example myself would be similar to the last stream in the aforementioned beatmap difficulty:
dddddddDdddddddKdddddddK
For this, I just hit the big D notes as if they are regular d, as my hands can't stream D notes unless the note per second speed is a bit slow, like 5-7 D or K a second is near my max.
I don't do kddk at all, so I can't really tell you anything about using that scheme.
I mean, the SV changes are unrankable in the Taiko mapsets, so why the heck allow them in converted maps??
Anyway this wasn't the topic to discuss, so I better shut up a bit :^)
I've played kddk since I started taiko and I would always play patterns with just my right hand if it wasn't too fast. Now I've come to the point where I have to play these patterns with both hands and I just can't do it. So today I switched to ddkk, I think it will be better for me in the long run.
That's what happened to me at first place. I hit a wall as high as the Empire State and couldn't advance, so I first thought of quitting. But then some people talked about "different playstyles" and I decided to try the "full alternate" style as a kddk player. I never felt so badass. I mean, focusing on alternate every note is complicated to learn, but when you learn it, you're able to spread the rhythm to both hands and streams become easier to read, even tho heavy hand changing streams (dddkkkdddk) still screw up my flow, I've managed to advance more than I was first with singletapping.NeonPhoenix wrote:
I've played kddk since I started taiko and I would always play patterns with just my right hand if it wasn't too fast. Now I've come to the point where I have to play these patterns with both hands and I just can't do it. So today I switched to ddkk, I think it will be better for me in the long run.
I alternate all the time when I play standard and I can't do it any other way. So I tried doing the same with taiko but I just couldn't get used to it no matter how much I practiced. I'm finding ddkk a lot more natural to play so I think I'm going to stick with it.Raiden wrote:
That's what happened to me at first place. I hit a wall as high as the Empire State and couldn't advance, so I first thought of quitting. But then some people talked about "different playstyles" and I decided to try the "full alternate" style as a kddk player. I never felt so badass. I mean, focusing on alternate every note is complicated to learn, but when you learn it, you're able to spread the rhythm to both hands and streams become easier to read, even tho heavy hand changing streams (dddkkkdddk) still screw up my flow, I've managed to advance more than I was first with singletapping.
With time and effort kddk outperforms kkdd/ddkk. Also it's pretty.
^^^oxxoxooxxxoxo wrote:
Also it's pretty.
Why does no one else notice this?
with time and effort both can be equally good although some have advantages in some areas, like 1/6 is easier kddk but kkddkkddkkddkkdd is much easier ddkk
ikin5050 wrote:
with time and effort both can be equally good although some have advantages in some areas, like 1/6 is easier kddk but kkddkkddkkddkkdd is much easier ddkk
I'm a kddk player and ddkkddkkddkkddkk... is hella easy for me. dddkd is not however.
Really fast ddkkddkkddkkddkk can be hit MUCH easier with ddkk though. Same technique as spinners in kddk.
I don't get this at all. Regardless of whether you use kddk or ddkk, you use the same finger motion to do this pattern right? Maybe I'm the only one that does it this way, but it looks to me that the pattern is played the exact same with the only difference being your starting and ending position...MMzz wrote:
Really fast ddkkddkkddkkddkk can be hit MUCH easier with ddkk though. Same technique as spinners in kddk.
no for me i use jk as red and gh as blue it is just rolling my fingers jkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkghjkgh and it's really easy, if i were using jh as red and kg as blue it'd be jhkgjhkgjhkgjhkgjhkgjhkgjhkgjhkg
Gotta agree here with Potatocracy. ddkkddkk repeated is just as easy with ddkk or kddk, as is kddkkddkk or its inverse. Anything in doubles is relatively easy to play and understand for both playstyles. It only gets confusing for kddk when there's a lot of hand swapping for what is considered dominant hand (assuming full alternate here due to talking about streams). That's where ddkk gets an advantage as hand swapping doesn't need to be learned in the same way with ddkk.Potatocracy wrote:
I don't get this at all. Regardless of whether you use kddk or ddkk, you use the same finger motion to do this pattern right? Maybe I'm the only one that does it this way, but it looks to me that the pattern is played the exact same with the only difference being your starting and ending position...MMzz wrote:
Really fast ddkkddkkddkkddkk can be hit MUCH easier with ddkk though. Same technique as spinners in kddk.
Haha I actually came to taiko from mania, so I don't full alternate patterns... In mania you aren't ever allowed the luxury of bouncing your hands back and forth in rhythm thanks to all the complicated patterns, so I'm used to playing with my "fingers" as opposed to my "hands". That probably changes everything since ddkk is for all intensive purposes impossible to full-alt in the same spirit that kddk is...
This.Tasha wrote:
Gotta agree here with Potatocracy. ddkkddkk repeated is just as easy with ddkk or kddk, as is kddkkddkk or its inverse. Anything in doubles is relatively easy to play and understand for both playstyles. It only gets confusing for kddk when there's a lot of hand swapping for what is considered dominant hand (assuming full alternate here due to talking about streams). That's where ddkk gets an advantage as hand swapping doesn't need to be learned in the same way with ddkk.
Hand swapping is much more intuitive with ddkk than with kddk.
Also, patterns or streams that start in d or k are always going to be started with the same hand (meaning if a pattern starts with k you're going to start it with your right hand, whereas if it starts with d you start it with left and so on)
For kddk singletappers this is the same, however for full-alters like me, I have to know how to start every pattern and every stream with both hands. That's why it's a bit awkward to learn. But hey, I chose it, cannot complain so far, I really like this style
I have this thing where I have to know what hand/finger to start in order to do patterns right. It's rough sometimes but I definitely like it the most. Unfortunately, I get destroyed by any pattern with rapid dd kk kd or dk. I don't know if those are hard for every keystyle or not, but my kddk single-tapping does not fare well against many doubles.
Does anyone just find rapid uses of dd kk dk and kd flat out easy? If so do tell
Does anyone just find rapid uses of dd kk dk and kd flat out easy? If so do tell
I don't. Consecutive doubles that alternate (for example dk dk dd kd dk kd...) are just a straight up pain in my hand.Potatocracy wrote:
I have this thing where I have to know what hand/finger to start in order to do patterns right. It's rough sometimes but I definitely like it the most. Unfortunately, I get destroyed by any pattern with rapid dd kk kd or dk. I don't know if those are hard for every keystyle or not, but my kddk single-tapping does not fare well against many doubles.
Does anyone just find rapid uses of dd kk dk and kd flat out easy? If so do tell
This because I have to start all of them with the same hand, and you might say "but that would be easier" well it is NOT, because if they're followed by more notes (or specially a triplet or a stream) it just ruins all my rhythm.
what if the player also plays std or osu mania? I feel that ddkk would be easier for std players, but what about mania?
I actually learned ddkk because I found it easier to understand coming from 4k stepmania. They obviously don't play the exact same but it helped me understand the patterns a lot easier.salumeca wrote:
what if the player also plays std or osu mania? I feel that ddkk would be easier for std players, but what about mania?
No. If I remember correctly there was a top player who used it (was it TimmyAkmed?)Sy[K]es wrote:
Am I the only person that uses dk dk?;3;
dkdk = kddk
yeah Timmy mainly plays dkdk
he can decently play kddk or ddkk since he tried pretty much every possible playstyle tho
yeah Timmy mainly plays dkdk
he can decently play kddk or ddkk since he tried pretty much every possible playstyle tho
I was really playing The Arcade Taiko no Tatsujin, so It's obvious I'm Using the kddk way.
Pros:
-Yep, As many said, One-colour streams are easy.
-fingertaps are spread, I mean not only one finger does more work than the other.
-can lessen the pain in Fast BPM'S (unsure)
-spinners are good for me tho. as I use the Left K and the Right D.
-1/3 or 1/6 was kinda confusing, But I can ride on, as I alternate the hits from left to right and V/V.
-I have more experience in the arcade, and single handed might not be a good idea, (also the above comment) I alternate the hits to Lefts and Rights.
-Cons:
-hard to relocate the position. especially when close.
-Big Notes or Finishes are hard to Achieve.
-One Color streams are dangerous, especially to some who have a bit of experience, the hands can synchronize the hits instead of alternating.
-mostly of these saying: it's hard to coordinate your hands in some patterns.
I use zxcv also.
Pros:
-Yep, As many said, One-colour streams are easy.
-fingertaps are spread, I mean not only one finger does more work than the other.
-can lessen the pain in Fast BPM'S (unsure)
-spinners are good for me tho. as I use the Left K and the Right D.
-1/3 or 1/6 was kinda confusing, But I can ride on, as I alternate the hits from left to right and V/V.
-I have more experience in the arcade, and single handed might not be a good idea, (also the above comment) I alternate the hits to Lefts and Rights.
-Cons:
-hard to relocate the position. especially when close.
-Big Notes or Finishes are hard to Achieve.
-One Color streams are dangerous, especially to some who have a bit of experience, the hands can synchronize the hits instead of alternating.
-mostly of these saying: it's hard to coordinate your hands in some patterns.
I use zxcv also.
As a kkdd player kkddkkddkkdd combos seem very easy to me. Even though I tried to swap to kddk,the frustation of doing all from the beginning isnt what im looking for. In kkdd style I find kkkkkkkkkk streams easy to do because I use k to do sliders. But when it comes the ddddddd stream, I can barely alternate because I made my left hand dominant.
Kkdd learning curve is easier to overcome if you dont let one of your hands become dominant. And if it does, you can have a very tough time getting out of that hole.
Besides being a complete sh** in kddk. Kddk is harder to understand at beginning. Meanwhile as kkdd is easier for a new player, in the long run it can make you have a bad time later on
Kkdd learning curve is easier to overcome if you dont let one of your hands become dominant. And if it does, you can have a very tough time getting out of that hole.
Besides being a complete sh** in kddk. Kddk is harder to understand at beginning. Meanwhile as kkdd is easier for a new player, in the long run it can make you have a bad time later on
I've been playing ddkk for almost 2 years now so I guess I'm qualified to give my feedback and suggestions for anyone who is starting out as ddkk/kkdd.
If you've not been playing very long:
Try to switch to kddk. Commit yourself to learning. There isn't much difference between ddkk and kddk at lower levels. It's harder to learn at the beginning, but if you are able to learn it then you'll have an easier time adjusting to harder maps later on.
If you've been playing ddkk for a while and can't switch:
Play maps that challenge you. Play maps with difficult but playable patterns. Have fun with some deathstream maps. Don't torture yourself by trying to FC long 200bpm monocolor 1/6 streams. You can always get better as long as you have the right mindset and enjoy playing.
For me, the learning curve going back to learning kddk was way too difficult, and I didn't enjoy struggling to FC 3-4* when I can pass 6-7* Oni as ddkk. There was a time when I could barely pass 5* maps and now I can read almost any kind of pattern. Even though ddkk is a more difficult playstyle at higher levels and it's harder to make quick improvements, you can definitely improve if you just keep playing more.
In terms of reading ddkk, I look at patterns by the number of consecutive monocolor notes in a row. Because of this, I have some difficulties with longer monocolor patterns such as kdddddk, ddkkkkk, and anything in 1/3 with more than 3 notes of the same color. When I get more used to a map I can judge a pattern's length by knowing which finger to end the pattern on.
When I try to play kddk I have a hard time with reading though, because in my opinion the reading style for streams with kddk is completely different than ddkk. Assuming you play full alternating streams (I use 2 index fingers as kddk), you either have muscle memory for the pattern, or you split every pattern into groups of 2 or 4 notes and kind of read every other note to know which key to press on each hand. Now I'm no kddk expert but I feel like the major change in reading is the main reason switching to kddk from ddkk is so difficult for a lot of people.
So yeah, kddk is the superior playstyle, there's no question there. It feels more natural for me to play ddkk because I'm more used to it, and while it definitely has its limitations, you shouldn't force yourself to switch unless you're pretty early on in your playing career. I personally want to see how far I can climb as a ddkk player. Unless you have serious aspirations to reach #1 (even top 50 would be a challenge), just play whatever's comfortable for you, and keep enjoying the game, and you'll improve.
If you've not been playing very long:
Try to switch to kddk. Commit yourself to learning. There isn't much difference between ddkk and kddk at lower levels. It's harder to learn at the beginning, but if you are able to learn it then you'll have an easier time adjusting to harder maps later on.
If you've been playing ddkk for a while and can't switch:
Play maps that challenge you. Play maps with difficult but playable patterns. Have fun with some deathstream maps. Don't torture yourself by trying to FC long 200bpm monocolor 1/6 streams. You can always get better as long as you have the right mindset and enjoy playing.
For me, the learning curve going back to learning kddk was way too difficult, and I didn't enjoy struggling to FC 3-4* when I can pass 6-7* Oni as ddkk. There was a time when I could barely pass 5* maps and now I can read almost any kind of pattern. Even though ddkk is a more difficult playstyle at higher levels and it's harder to make quick improvements, you can definitely improve if you just keep playing more.
In terms of reading ddkk, I look at patterns by the number of consecutive monocolor notes in a row. Because of this, I have some difficulties with longer monocolor patterns such as kdddddk, ddkkkkk, and anything in 1/3 with more than 3 notes of the same color. When I get more used to a map I can judge a pattern's length by knowing which finger to end the pattern on.
When I try to play kddk I have a hard time with reading though, because in my opinion the reading style for streams with kddk is completely different than ddkk. Assuming you play full alternating streams (I use 2 index fingers as kddk), you either have muscle memory for the pattern, or you split every pattern into groups of 2 or 4 notes and kind of read every other note to know which key to press on each hand. Now I'm no kddk expert but I feel like the major change in reading is the main reason switching to kddk from ddkk is so difficult for a lot of people.
So yeah, kddk is the superior playstyle, there's no question there. It feels more natural for me to play ddkk because I'm more used to it, and while it definitely has its limitations, you shouldn't force yourself to switch unless you're pretty early on in your playing career. I personally want to see how far I can climb as a ddkk player. Unless you have serious aspirations to reach #1 (even top 50 would be a challenge), just play whatever's comfortable for you, and keep enjoying the game, and you'll improve.
MMzz wrote:
I only play kddk so I will talk about that. This is more of a general consensus instead of my personal views.
Pros: (ST = singletap ALT = full alternate)
This is all assuming you are using 4 fingers to play. k
ST/ALT - Single color patterns can be done with both hands for better stability/accuracy and comfort. unless you play standard a lot, then one hand would possibly be more cozy
ST/ALT - Spinners can be done with ease alternating dkdkdkd across 4 fingers. (v c z x v c z x v c z x for example) Das fun times
ST/ALT - 1/6 combos are generally easier with two hands. ddkkddkkddkk 1/6 being the only exception, much easier on ddkk style using the same technique as spinners. Sorta, goes both ways
ST - Finishers won't ruin your rhythm/flow because you keep rhythm on 1 hand. All the bonus points!
ALT - Stamina on high BPM won't be a huge issue compared to ST. Unless you're me.. 260bpm singletapping FTW!
ST - Accuracy is generally easier because you aren't focusing on alternating each note. (This probably won't count after playing ALT for a long time though) All tha points dude!
Cons:
Still assuming you are using 4 fingers.
ST - Stamina will be your downfall at higher BPM. Going into the higher 200's while using your left/right hand for the majority rhythm will hurt and require practice. *cough* "Practice"
ST - Offbeat patterns like doubles and quads can be annoying because you will start patterns/maintain rhythm on your opposite hand sometimes. unless you have like an alternating single-tappy sense. sorta, idk im ambidextrous
ALT - Finishers will usually destroy your constant alternating note flow/rhythm unless the finisher has a break after it. But more dense patterns with finishers will be a pain. RIP Bonus points
I'm playing with xbox controller on kddk style.
Joke well it DOES work somehow tho.
I can play ddkk quite on a decent level ( at least in my opinion) and kddk for some easy Oni maps that aren't too fast.
I gotta say that kddk definitely improved my accuracy and i hope that I will get way better with it but ddkk is quite a funny
playstyle for complex streams patterns that proof somewhat easier to read that way.
Joke
well it DOES work somehow tho.
I can play ddkk quite on a decent level ( at least in my opinion) and kddk for some easy Oni maps that aren't too fast.
I gotta say that kddk definitely improved my accuracy and i hope that I will get way better with it but ddkk is quite a funny
playstyle for complex streams patterns that proof somewhat easier to read that way.
Does anyone use dkdk?
I've used both kddk and ddkk and I didn't like them
With kddk, I found that having the same colours on different fingers (d is on the left index but on the right middle finger) was extremely confusing. I then thought that I could make it easier by playing as ddkk. It was much easier to read but I found it was much less practical than kddk because of single-handed trills (those are fun to play on mania, though).
I've used both kddk and ddkk and I didn't like them
With kddk, I found that having the same colours on different fingers (d is on the left index but on the right middle finger) was extremely confusing. I then thought that I could make it easier by playing as ddkk. It was much easier to read but I found it was much less practical than kddk because of single-handed trills (those are fun to play on mania, though).