Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. osu!
  3. Development
  4. Feature Requests

Taiko Skinning: Option to make Dons/Kats different shapes

posted
Total Posts
22
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +40
Minhtam
550 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
Minhtam
I can't begin to tell you how many times I drop a combo because I thought red was blue, or blue was red. And it got me thinking as to how I can fix this so that I don't have to rely on color, or at the very least, use different colors (brighter red, darker blue) to help me read the map easier. And as of this moment, there is no such option.

I thought about saying something about it, but I can understand that part of the difficulty of reading a Taiko map was that the colors red and blue used in the game are extremely close in terms of lightness and saturation. So I thought, "Ok, I guess that could fly as an excuse to not give us that option for skinning in Taiko." Then I found this thread: t/202885

So let me get this straight. A colorblind player can play osu (black background, white hitcircles), catch the beat (black background, white shapes), and osu!mania (different columns), but he can't play Taiko because the red dons and the blue kats appear the same color to him? How in the world is that fair?

Hence I feel that there should be an option for the Dons and Kats should be different shapes. No, not by default, of course, but if a skinner wishes to make Dons and Kats of different shapes, he or she should have the ability to do so. Just make a don.png or kat.png to include in the skin folder. That's all it should take.
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
karterfreak
Colour blindness isn't really a good reason for this as only 1 in 33,000 people end up suffering from Monochromacy, which is the only form of colour blindness that would impact someones taiko playing (as other forms of colour blindness can see reds and blues, even if one of them ends up being a different colour).

I also feel like changing the shapes of don and kat would cause more clutter than anything and make the game quite hard to read. I do feel that we should be able to set our own colours for dons and kats though just for more customization options.
Minhtam
550 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
Minhtam

Tasha wrote:

Colour blindness isn't really a good reason for this as only 1 in 33,000 people end up suffering from Monochromacy, which is the only form of colour blindness that would impact someones taiko playing (as other forms of colour blindness can see reds and blues, even if one of them ends up being a different colour).
1 in 33,000. and we have 60,000 people playing on the client per day. Chances are high one of them is monochromatic. And that's enough of a reason to implement (optional) different shapes for Taiko.

Seriously, compare the two!



Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-
Regardless of the triviality, increasing accessibility is almost always a good thing.

A middle-ground that might not require nearly as much time is to simply implement a mode that changes the Taiko notes to gray scale, but creates two notes that are inverses from one another.
Minhtam
550 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
Minhtam

Halogen- wrote:

Regardless of the triviality, increasing accessibility is almost always a good thing.

A middle-ground that might not require nearly as much time is to simply implement a mode that changes the Taiko notes to gray scale, but creates two notes that are inverses from one another.
I would take that option as well.
TomoAlien
13 posts
Joined January 2010
TomoAlien
I support this due to both being helpful for the colorblind people, but also for being useful for making more creative skins.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
Sounds cool.

Lolcubes could have a cube taiko skin.
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun

Tasha wrote:

I also feel like changing the shapes of don and kat would cause more clutter than anything and make the game quite hard to read.
Or, instead, as one of my old Algorithmics teacher used to do in tests, put a shaped pattern within the don/kats so the player can differentiate. However at higher speeds, it will be much more difficult to read. The idea itself is the same thing. For instance, having, let's say, a O shape for don and a X shape for kat would help the player differentiate, if he does have monochromacy.


something like this, for instance, wouldn't cause clutter at all yet let the player differentiate.
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
karterfreak
I feel like Gezo's way would be a lot less clutter and would assist people quite a bit.

Also wanting to mention I didn't have anything against the idea itself. I personally support having different colours for the notes. I just don't feel that the reason given (colourblindness) is a very valid one, as there are other paths that could be taken to address the issue.

Simply put, maybe have a colour bilndness option for taiko where when checked, notes become white and black and have different markers
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

MMzz wrote:

Sounds cool.

Lolcubes could have a cube taiko skin.
I sure would.
Minhtam
550 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
Minhtam

_Gezo_ wrote:

Tasha wrote:

I also feel like changing the shapes of don and kat would cause more clutter than anything and make the game quite hard to read.
Or, instead, as one of my old Algorithmics teacher used to do in tests, put a shaped pattern within the don/kats so the player can differentiate. However at higher speeds, it will be much more difficult to read. The idea itself is the same thing. For instance, having, let's say, a O shape for don and a X shape for kat would help the player differentiate, if he does have monochromacy.


something like this, for instance, wouldn't cause clutter at all yet let the player differentiate.
That would be a great idea, but it may require different files for dons and kats, which opens up the possibility of different shapes.
tatatat
922 posts
Joined March 2015
tatatat
Why isn't this a thing yet? I have a friend who is colorblind who just can't play Taiko because of this. It'd be such a simple change that wouldn't be that big of a deal but would definitely increase the accessibility for taiko.
pastelite
16 posts
Joined September 2015
pastelite

tatatat wrote:

Why isn't this a thing yet? I have a friend who is colorblind who just can't play Taiko because of this. It'd be such a simple change that wouldn't be that big of a deal but would definitely increase the accessibility for taiko.
Red + Blue = Black

Just make taikohitcitcle.png have that two color on it.
Like TaikoMania skin (t/404353)

I hope this can help :)

I'm bad at grammar. Sorry....

Why I edited?
I forget to add quote!

But isn't this 2 year old thread yet. So, I think it better to open new thread!
Last edited by pastelite , edited 2 times in total.
_Meep_
1,707 posts
Joined April 2014
_Meep_

tatatat wrote:

Why isn't this a thing yet? I have a friend who is colorblind who just can't play Taiko because of this. It'd be such a simple change that wouldn't be that big of a deal but would definitely increase the accessibility for taiko.
You do realise this gamemode is derived from somewhere else right? It's not native to osu! itself like CtB
It was never supposed to be different in shapes because that'd make reading 10x easier
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

_Meep_ wrote:

It was never supposed to be different in shapes because that'd make reading 10x easier
How did you jump to that conclusion?
fam22_old
1 post
Joined March 2017
fam22_old

Minhtam wrote:

I can't begin to tell you how many times I drop a combo because I thought red was blue, or blue was red. And it got me thinking as to how I can fix this so that I don't have to rely on color, or at the very least, use different colors (brighter red, darker blue) to help me read the map easier. And as of this moment, there is no such option.

I thought about saying something about it, but I can understand that part of the difficulty of reading a Taiko map was that the colors red and blue used in the game are extremely close in terms of lightness and saturation. So I thought, "Ok, I guess that could fly as an excuse to not give us that option for skinning in Taiko." Then I found this thread: t/202885

So let me get this straight. A colorblind player can play osu (black background, white hitcircles), catch the beat (black background, white shapes), and osu!mania (different columns), but he can't play Taiko because the red dons and the blue kats appear the same color to him? How in the world is that fair?

Hence I feel that there should be an option for the Dons and Kats should be different shapes. No, not by default, of course, but if a skinner wishes to make Dons and Kats of different shapes, he or she should have the ability to do so. Just make a don.png or kat.png to include in the skin folder. That's all it should take.
_Meep_
1,707 posts
Joined April 2014
_Meep_

Endaris wrote:

_Meep_ wrote:

It was never supposed to be different in shapes because that'd make reading 10x easier
How did you jump to that conclusion?
It's hard to read because differentiating between multiple red and blues in a small timeframe is hard
By utilizing shapes, it'd be easier to make out which are which
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

_Meep_ wrote:

It's hard to read because differentiating between multiple red and blues in a small timeframe is hard
By utilizing shapes, it'd be easier to make out which are which
That's what you think but did you actually try it?
What could be advantageous is a difference in color AND shape but I am pretty sure that it doesn't matter at all if the notes differ by color OR shape.
darkmiz
407 posts
Joined August 2011
darkmiz
I want pink and purple
_Meep_
1,707 posts
Joined April 2014
_Meep_

Endaris wrote:

_Meep_ wrote:

It's hard to read because differentiating between multiple red and blues in a small timeframe is hard
By utilizing shapes, it'd be easier to make out which are which
That's what you think but did you actually try it?
What could be advantageous is a difference in color AND shape but I am pretty sure that it doesn't matter at all if the notes differ by color OR shape.
Well it's not really proven, but more of an assumption
However, this mania is the same case.
For example, compare t/539048 and your default osu skin
The notes are clearly different, however I read both of them in a totally different way.
I played the love live one because I have played the game before and have got myself used to seeing these circles fall down rather than blocks of mania notes
This could easily be replicated if this request was approved, which is why I say it may make it easier for many others.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
That's a matter of conditioning though. You are already used to it, therefore you do better with it.
At the same time I'm 100% sure that the slim design of manianotes has a huge advantage for reading dense and complex charts at higher skilllevels.
You can already change the shape of Taiko notes right now (to squares for example), just not for differentiation between don and kat. Yet none does that.
PyrosaurusRex
5 posts
Joined January 2017
PyrosaurusRex
As a colorblind person myself, this would be very helpful. I am not monochromatic, I have Deuteranopia (think of it like RGB, but without the G).

I've found that I don't really associate things with colors. For example, for the longest time I didn't know that the Hulk was green. I just thought he got really big and angry, lol. Then one day, someone mentioned that the Hulk was green, and that's when I realized it. Now that I know he's green I can see that if I'm looking for it, but my brain isn't wired to associate color with things, I would have never noticed he was green if someone didn't bring it up. Another example is with a stop sign. When I see a stop sign, the first thing that jumps out to me is that its a hexagon, not that its red. In the same way, I find Taiko to be hard to read because both Don and Kat are the same shape.

I would love to be able to change the shapes via skinning, I think it would be much easier for me and other colorblind people to read. However I don't want it to give an unfair advantage. I think it raises the question of "Is part of Taiko's difficulty in learning to read the colors?" I would love to have some top players try it out, and see if they think its fair.

Also, for non-colorblind people, does reading Don and Kat by color come just as naturally as other reading in rhythm games? Or was learning to read the colors part of the process?

For monochromatic people, I imagine that Don and Kat look pretty much identical, making Taiko unplayable. I think what would be completely fair, would be to add a Taiko colorblind mode. This would change the colors from red and blue, to maybe a brighter red and a darker blue, or even yellow and dark blue. Anything that would make it playable in grayscale would be a godsend for people with monochromatic colorblindness.
Last edited by PyrosaurusRex , edited 1 time in total.
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 22