Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. osu!
  3. Tournaments & Contests
  4. Tournaments

NAT 2015 Preparation / Discussion Thread

posted
Total Posts
59
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
MMzz
Hello all! With NAT 2015 starting in a few months myself and current staff are starting preparations. This thread will serve for ideas, feedback, staff applications and general discussion. We (the staff) would like to know what you (the players) want to see this year. This means maps, rules, streaming, etc. We also want to hear feedback on what we can improve on from the previous years.

[What is NAT?]
NAT is a tournament for players in North America. This means The United States, Canada, Mexico, United States Territories and all other countries in the North America region. (Click for a list of countries) This will be the 3rd annual NAT. Results of previous NAT can be found here: NAT 2013, NAT 2014. The current NAT champion is Azer. This tournament is held over the summer so the majority of players have more time to play. (No school basically) The idea of NAT started after USAT (A tournament for The United States) concluded. I wanted to have a tournament on a larger scale and more variety of players from the same region.

[Current standings for the tournament]
Registrations starting in May. (No exact date)
Tournament starting in June. (No exact date)
Registrations open to all players from North American countries.
Quarterfinalist from NAT 2014 are guaranteed a slot. (Unless user declines)
1v1 matches.
Every match will be best of 7. (Minimum of 4 games, maximum of 7 games)
64 player bracket + loser bracket seeded by pp.
Map pools containing Nomod, Hidden, Hardrock, Doubletime and Tiebreaker (nomod) maps.

[Staff's Ideas]
Freemod for tiebreaker maps. (High risk high reward scenario)
Performance rank of 10k or higher required to register.
A custom osz package with every map from respective rounds bundled into one package.
Unranked maps in map pools.
Not losing the match if you fail, win still possible if you can recover.
Use of a custom skin for streaming. (Will need someone to design it) Something that reflects the average users skin. (No 300's, Transparent circles, dimmed/black BG)

[Player's Ideas]
None yet.

[Staff]
General Manager: MMzz
Bracket Management: Tasha
Map selectors: Lach, RLC
Referees: Position needs to be filled.
Streamers: Position needs to be filled.

[Miscellaneous]
Suggest maps here!
Staff application!
Azer
World Cup Organiser
1,105 posts
Joined December 2012
Azer
I feel like NAT was run pretty well last year, not much to touch on in terms of ideas but I can chip in my opinion if we want to discuss things.

MMzz wrote:

Freemod for tiebreaker maps. (High risk high reward scenario)
Performance rank of 10k or higher required to register.
Not losing the match if you fail, win still possible if you can recover.
I completely agree on all of these. Last years it felt like you had to rush your registration to make sure you were part of the first 64, with the 10k rank rule that should be gone

MMzz wrote:

Unranked maps in map pools.
This is very important, by now I honestly believe a tournament needs this, there are only so many ranked mapsets with challenging difficulties and anyone who has played in numerous tournaments can spot the repetition, not because it's intentional but because there are no choices. Not too long ago I picked maps for a tournament and I felt like I exhausted everything I had and that there was no possible way I could pick different maps for another round/tournament. There are also so many mappers who do not bother getting their maps ranked and only map the insanes/extras and I have good trust in RLC & Lach's ability to pick the right ones.

I've discussed it with MMzz already but if there's one thing NAT needs, it's an upgrade in commentary.
uzzi
786 posts
Joined September 2012
uzzi
I'd say unranked maps are definitely a must. Having only participated in both 2013 and 2014, all I can really say is the repetition is noticeable.

Also regarding the 10k requirement, I feel like this can be a bit more lenient, but to compensate the tournament should probably be double elimination rather than the traditional single elimination, that way those who are of lower rank can still feel a sense of belonging in the tournament.

Regarding the "not losing if you fail" suggestion, I have to disagree. Rather, we could have it so that if one person fails within a % of time of the map that has passed, they can call up a redo of that map. I feel like having a person recover may be more suitable in the later rounds, but definitely not in the 2 or 3 rounds.
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach
Something I've noticed from the three map suggestions so far is that one of them is fairly rough for the proposed rounds. Something to note is that this will be double elimination with a planed 64 participants, which means a minimum of 7 rounds will take place. The beginning round for this year will likely be around the same difficulty range as last year. But as there will be more rounds taking place, the curve will be steady, preferably with no sudden spike and plateau compared to last year.

- [ U z z I ] - wrote:

Regarding the "not losing if you fail" suggestion, I have to disagree. Rather, we could have it so that if one person fails within a % of time of the map that has passed, they can call up a redo of that map. I feel like having a person recover may be more suitable in the later rounds, but definitely not in the 2 or 3 rounds.
While interesting, I'd say this is far too easily abused. While only a few of the ideas are set in stone, this is not one of them as we're unsure of weather or not we can even do this with the tournament client as it divides the players using teams, which might not currently work for FFA multiplayer rooms.
Niko-nyan
1,990 posts
Joined June 2011
Niko-nyan
This would be good for North America player btw if it's ready i can be the referee
Te Amo
246 posts
Joined January 2013
Te Amo

MMzz wrote:

Unranked maps in map pools.
Not losing the match if you fail, win still possible if you can recover.
Use of a custom skin for streaming. (Will need someone to design it) Something that reflects the average users skin. (No 300's, Transparent circles, dimmed/black BG)
1. I personally think unranked maps should not be played because people will find any little excuse as to why a map was unfair to be in a mappool
2.This is confusing, do you mean that if you fail within the middle or anywhere else of the song and revive your score still counts or if you fail and the song ends your score still counts?
3. Custom skin for streaming is nice

DOUBLE elimination should be implemented
How about voting on who we want to commentate matches?
Also starting a little fundraiser to have a little prizepool and make things a bit more exciting :)
Minhtam
550 posts
Joined September 2014
Minhtam
I would be willing to referee this tournament.
CptHampton
66 posts
Joined August 2013
CptHampton

MMzz wrote:

Freemod for tiebreaker maps. (High risk high reward scenario)
Performance rank of 10k or higher required to register.
Yes and yes. Both will do nothing but make the competition better and more exciting.

MMzz wrote:

Unranked maps in map pools.
As long as they fit in with the rest of the map pool and aren't terribly gimmicky, I see no good reason not to include some.

MMzz wrote:

Not losing the match if you fail, win still possible if you can recover.
This one I could go either way on. On one hand it feels cheap if a clearly losing player gets a win because of a missed stream, but on the other hand does a player who doesn't pass really deserve a win? I'm sure other people will chime in, I just see arguments from both viewpoints being plausible.

Other than that, I might consider making semis/finals bo9 to add to the gravity (plus with fewer matches in the later rounds the match length won't matter as much). I also think it would be a positive thing to see streaming coverage of every round like OUKT has been doing this year, at least a few games (closely matched opponents and high profile players in earlier rounds), but I completely understand that's entirely dependent on a LOT of scheduling headaches.

Super pumped to see how the tournament goes this year! And if I'm feeling crazy enough I might even register...but we'll see.
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach

KevEz wrote:

1. I personally think unranked maps should not be played because people will find any little excuse as to why a map was unfair to be in a mappool
They will? If people want to do that, they don't have to play in the tournament. It's not as if we're going to include absurdly difficult and gimmicky maps. The main reason for including unranked maps is to bring in fresh map pools for later rounds as the current ranked pool of difficult maps is rather small. Ones that haven't been used in tournaments, that is.

KevEz wrote:

2.This is confusing, do you mean that if you fail within the middle or anywhere else of the song and revive your score still counts or if you fail and the song ends your score still counts?
We're proposing free-for-all scoring so that players can fail on a section, but if they recover health by the end of the map they can still win in the event they have more score than their opponent. Fail and do not recover; you lose.

KevEz wrote:

DOUBLE elimination should be implemented
It is.

KevEz wrote:

Also starting a little fundraiser to have a little prizepool and make things a bit more exciting :)
There's already a prize pool. Last year is was 12 months supporter and a profile badge for first place.
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
karterfreak
Hi, bracket manager here.

As Lach mentioned, this is going to be a double elimination tournament where initial seedings are determined by pp / ranking. For anyone not familiar with how a double elimination tournament works, feel free to ask any questions here and I'll try to simplify it as much as I can.
Support
28 posts
Joined October 2013
Support
I'm willing to help as referee if there's a spot
Toy
Former osu! Champion: 2019 / Grilled Dodongo
1,505 posts
Joined June 2013
Toy
I can't even begin to describe how excited I am for this
Synchrostar
866 posts
Joined July 2010
Synchrostar
why cant i join this
Toukai
79 posts
Joined April 2012
Toukai
Oh so hyped for this ;w;
Ayachi-
2,261 posts
Joined November 2013
Ayachi-
woah
Kaitou Kid
162 posts
Joined June 2013
Kaitou Kid
I swear to god if I have to vs azer in the first round -.-
MiruHong
92 posts
Joined June 2013
MiruHong
Cutie Panther Watashi... Doko Demo Iku Yo..... Kimi No.... Kimi No...
Yarissa
587 posts
Joined September 2010
Yarissa
I 100% agree that unranked maps need to be included and trust that the map selectors' discretion on these maps will be good.

I personally think that even with a 10k rank cutoff that the slots for the tourney will fill too fast. It's still possible to miss the registration because nobody told you about it or you weren't checking the tournament sub forums actively enough (which would technically be your fault, but STILL, that's besides the point). It would be a shame to have some of the top players excluded because of this. This DID happen last year with more than a few players. Xilver didn't join at all, and Silynn barely made it in because someone else deferred their slot to him. My suggestion for accommodating these top players is allowing reservations for anyone above rank 1k that expresses interest beforehand (in a preregistration of sorts). An alternative would be increasing the tournament size and having a really large group stage.

Either way I'm looking forward to this year's NAT and I'm hoping to get much further than last year. Cheers gents
Zodiaack
Former osu! Champion: 2015
11 posts
Joined August 2013
Zodiaack
Dude hype
darklord142
23 posts
Joined May 2013
darklord142
Dude nice hype
Raiku
238 posts
Joined April 2012
Raiku
I'd be hyped to commentate this with someone like Ztrot.
CptHampton
66 posts
Joined August 2013
CptHampton

Kaoru wrote:

An alternative would be increasing the tournament size and having a really large group stage.
I wouldn't be opposed to a 128 person bracket...

Then again that's potentially a lot more work for the staff of this tournament
Dirdam
27 posts
Joined November 2013
Dirdam

MMzz wrote:

The idea of NAT started after USAT (A tournament for The United States) concluded. I wanted to have a tournament on a larger scale and more variety of players from the same region.
Nice idea in general to involve more people in the tournament, but in the previous edition of the tournament (In which I participated), there where not many participants of the rest of the region, and most of them where from the USA, and only 4 countries where represented on the tournament (USA, Canada, Mexico and Honduras). I am by no means making a rant about this or hating about this. I'm just making this as a suggestion. But maybe reserving at least a spot for the top player of each of the countries on the list and only if they meet the 10k requirement of course, and it might seem too much as well, but that would put more spice and little more variety of players to the tournament and make it feel more regional if we give the rest of the players in the less known region of North America a chance. Because there are a couple of good players in these other countries.
Just To Name a few:
-Ekik-
Genolo
Koromo
JFRN
JaaiMiTo
gmate

Kaoru wrote:

100% agree that unranked maps need to be included and trust that the map selectors' discretion on these maps will be good.
^I also agree on this
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
MMzz
Reserving spots for top players is something I would love to do. Thr amount per country will be something i need to figure out, unless you guys have ideas.

Increasing the player size would be a big task. Running 64 double elimination is already pretty big. (Of course if we get more help 128 could happen.)
-Ryosuke
1,423 posts
Joined May 2011
-Ryosuke
Martinique and Guadeloupe belongs to France, does that mean I can participate? :o
GHAngeloid
23 posts
Joined June 2013
GHAngeloid
After researching most of the NAT from results from the past 2 years, I agree with most of the staff's ideas on improving the tournament. I never competed last year, but I have the prior knowledge of understanding each map pool for all the rounds from previous NATs. (Again, all of this is based on my personal opinions.)

MMzz wrote:

Freemod for tiebreaker maps. (High risk high reward scenario)
I strongly agree. However, I do have second thoughts as it depends on the players primary play style. It could be a big disadvantage.

MMzz wrote:

Performance rank of 10k or higher required to register.
I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything. Since this is a single elimination tournament and not TEAM BASED, I think this should have a higher performance rank requirement. This makes seeding pretty difficult and unfair to most users that are "qualified yet low ranked". If there was a separate bracket or something, then this idea should stay neutral.

MMzz wrote:

Unranked maps in map pools.
This is a big one! I completely agree with this. Most players must be annoyed now a days (especially the older players) to have to play the same maps OVER AND OVER AGAIN. This is a great idea since it could benefit the artists of the song and the mappers with player's critiques on the map. This is only a bad idea if the selectors choose a map that does not fit with the map pool like a high star level map, high approach rate, or high overall difficulty. Things should be considered about this.

MMzz wrote:

Not losing the match if you fail, win still possible if you can recover.
This I can agree with MAYBE if unranked maps are accepted in the NAT. The ranked maps in the map pool are not extremely difficult or frustrating. If it involves mods, then there could be some exceptions.

MMzz wrote:

Increasing the player size would be a big task. Running 64 double elimination is already pretty big. (Of course if we get more help 128 could happen.)
I definitely agree. Having more people to volunteer to organize a 128 player bracket would be great. There is always limiting the number of players to represent each country, yet it could be a pain.

Overall, the tournament is all set in stone. Guess I'll compete for the NAT. This sounds awesome. :P
Last edited by GHAngeloid , edited 1 time in total.
Yuudachi-kun
5,435 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
I think it would be cool to compete even if I suck.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

Kheldragar wrote:

I think it would be cool to compete even if I suck.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
MMzz

-Ryosuke wrote:

Martinique and Guadeloupe belongs to France, does that mean I can participate? :o
Those countries are located in the North America region. So they can participate.


Regarding the 128 limit. If done, I would like to have a group stage rather than start with a 128 player bracket. (for the sake of managment) It would be different than what the world cups do. Either have 16 groups of 8 (Top 4 advance) or 32 groups of 4 (Top 2 advance). The choice will depend on time we have and seeding.

My idea is to basically have all 8 (or 4) players from the group in the same room and play an entire map pool or a good handful of maps, basically running as a qualifier. (More maps played, more accurate results) After that, the top 4 (or 2) advance to a 64 player bracket with double elimination until the tournament is concluded.

If not. We will just run a 128 player double elimination tournament. This will add a week or two onto the tournament though. (Unless our staff is huge and coordinated)
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
Is the NAT just north american region or is it north of the equator?
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
karterfreak

Storm- wrote:

Is the NAT just north american region or is it north of the equator?
I think its safe to assume North American region.
CptHampton
66 posts
Joined August 2013
CptHampton

MMzz wrote:

Regarding the 128 limit. If done, I would like to have a group stage rather than start with a 128 player bracket. (for the sake of managment) It would be different than what the world cups do. Either have 16 groups of 8 (Top 4 advance) or 32 groups of 4 (Top 2 advance). The choice will depend on time we have and seeding.

My idea is to basically have all 8 (or 4) players from the group in the same room and play an entire map pool or a good handful of maps, basically running as a qualifier. (More maps played, more accurate results) After that, the top 4 (or 2) advance to a 64 player bracket with double elimination until the tournament is concluded.

If not. We will just run a 128 player double elimination tournament. This will add a week or two onto the tournament though. (Unless our staff is huge and coordinated)
I really like the idea of a group stage as a qualifier to make it into a 64-player bracket. The only thing you have to be careful with is the win condition to get into the next round. I would suggest assigning "points" based on each map's end ranking (e.g., in a 4 player group top score on the map would get 4 points, last place would get 1). You could tweak the point system to weigh a 1st place finish more heavily, too.

Also with the group qualifier set up this way, technically you could have A LOT more sign-ups without too much more work (e.g., 160 people sign up, have 16 groups of 10 where the top 4 advance to the bracket stage). The only added work might be tracking down the extra people and herding them all into a multi lobby, but players should take responsibility for this themselves.
AxE Shockwavq
30 posts
Joined January 2014
AxE Shockwavq
Regarding unranked maps. I think it's a need because it does bring freshness to the map pool but you got to remember some unranked maps can display the skill levels of each player. You got to remember that world's end dance hall (rocketman remix) was still pending In the OWC but in was amazing and a great pick that brought out a lot of need skills to prove that they were the best. Regarding the elimination process. The point system previously mention is a great idea and since there will be a lot of people I think the best way is to have it spread out over 2 days in order to not have to rush around streaming. The tourney client isn't the fast lest thing to set up and requires some time so spreading the matches out is a must. I also think custom skins should be left entirely to the player. It's hard for me to just change skins and expect to play as well or better than usual. Skins that players use usually sit well with their eyes.
MiruHong
92 posts
Joined June 2013
MiruHong
Performance rank of 10k or higher required to register.
If it's 64 Player Tournament I feel that the requirement should be a lot higher as I feel that the first come first serve registration might "Bloat" the pool.

A custom osz package with every map from respective rounds bundled into one package.
Some players don't want to break there scores that aren't FC's (Like DT pass, HDHR score, etc etc) I think that this would be great.

Unranked maps in map pools.
Please HollowWings Mysterious Hymn Finals Tie Breaker Cutie Panther Watashi Doko Demo Iku Yo Please
Last edited by MMzz , edited 3 times in total.
CptHampton
66 posts
Joined August 2013
CptHampton

AxE Shockwavq wrote:

I also think custom skins should be left entirely to the player. It's hard for me to just change skins and expect to play as well or better than usual. Skins that players use usually sit well with their eyes.
I think they mean a custom skin for the tournament spectator client, there's no way they would or even could force players to play with a different skin
AxE Shockwavq
30 posts
Joined January 2014
AxE Shockwavq
I thought the tourney client didn't accept custom skins
7uu
28 posts
Joined February 2011
7uu
Canada 1st, 2nd, 3rd, no mercy.
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach

AxE Shockwavq wrote:

I thought the tourney client didn't accept custom skins
It probably doesn't. Most of the stuff listed in the OP is theoretical, and at the time we weren't sure if it was possible but decided to propose it anyway. Still no response into even getting the client to take a look as yet. (ty loctav)
Sync
osu! Alumni
1,575 posts
Joined April 2011
Sync
Hey kids, can you dig it?
AzureRin
38 posts
Joined January 2011
AzureRin
Like the people above, I think incorporating a group stage is definitely a good idea, since the tourney is going to fill really quickly, so incorporating group stage will definitely accommodate more players.
Really excited for this =w=~ gotta get better before June it seems
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach
Bumping to let you guys know that we are still accepting map suggestions and would appreciate input for any maps you guys wish to see in the pools, both ranked and unranked, recent and not-so-recent. Here's the form for anyone that didn't read the OP. Not long to go now.
Yuudachi-kun
5,435 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
I wonder if I'll be able to participate.

Give me Azer first round so I can lose asap.
uzzi
786 posts
Joined September 2012
uzzi

Kheldragar wrote:

I wonder if I'll be able to participate.

Give me Azer first round so I can lose asap.
In the two years I've participated, I always got someone in the top 50 in the third round, doN'TWORRYFRIEND
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
MMzz
Registration time is coming soon! More than likely going to open registrations on May 1st. Then have the tournament start in mid/late June (as usual).

Registration will be open to anyone above rank 10k and in the North American region.

There will be no limit to how many users can register but, only the top 64 performance players will be accepted. (The 64 includes the users who were awarded a guaranteed spot from last year. If they decline, the spot will be left open for everyone else.) This prevents flooding and allows everyone time to register.

I will post again if anything changes.

EDIT: Profile badge?
by KinomiCandy
KinomiCandy
798 posts
Joined June 2010
KinomiCandy
First attempt
Second attempt
Requested by MMzz to post over here. He also requested me to try making a badge for the upcoming NAT 2015 tournament, so I went ahead and made one together with MMzz. I finished the first badge and it didn't really feel right or look okay enough for me, so after a few hours of thinking, I decided to make a second badge. Feel free to use it by all means or not at all, it doesn't really matter to me.

Any changes or feedback would be appreciated, I can do any sorts of changes whenever I need to.
Last edited by KinomiCandy , edited 1 time in total.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
MMzz
2nd one is great. Will use it. Thanks nomi.
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx
DAMN RIGHT 'MURICA!!


I'd kill to see some anime songs (doesn't even have to be TV size), since the rather big amount of rhythm game or vocaloid songs is uninteresting.
orbital gun
171 posts
Joined January 2011
orbital gun
soon™
Xilver15
Former osu! Champion: 2015
514 posts
Joined August 2013
Xilver15

xxdeathx wrote:

DAMN RIGHT 'MURICA!!


I'd kill to see some anime songs (doesn't even have to be TV size), since the rather big amount of rhythm game or vocaloid songs is uninteresting.

I really, REALLY hope this is not serious and you're joking.
Yuudachi-kun
5,435 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
The first half of that post made me cringe.
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 59