2015-08-14 19:01 -Kamikaze-: Hey there, do you have some time?
2015-08-14 19:02 -Kamikaze-: I wanted to discuss my map's DQ if you don't mind
2015-08-14 19:03 Spy: About ?
2015-08-14 19:03 -Kamikaze-: uhh I wanted to discuss LN problems in Granat
2015-08-14 19:04 -Kamikaze-: and work out some sort of middle ground on it
2015-08-14 19:04 -Kamikaze-: since I don't want to ruin the map
2015-08-14 19:05 Spy: Well
2015-08-14 19:05 Spy: So what do you want to discuss with me, explain how LN used ?
2015-08-14 19:06 -Kamikaze-: okay, first things first, let me open up the dq post
2015-08-14 19:07 -Kamikaze-: 00:24:153 - why those short LNs are such a problem?
2015-08-14 19:08 -Kamikaze-: they're being played same as normal notes
2015-08-14 19:08 -Kamikaze-: and have almost identical mechanics
2015-08-14 19:08 -Kamikaze-: they just look better
2015-08-14 19:14 Spy: Well, it is OD8, not OD7, or 6 or lower. Since you said it looks better, but you didn't use it in your diff, so does it make any sense ? Since it is high OD, personally I disagree such usage
2015-08-14 19:15 Spy: And everything under QATs' disscussion
2015-08-14 19:15 Spy: Even if I agree with that, but it is not mean totally fine in other QATs' mind
2015-08-14 19:15 -Kamikaze-: it's a GD, that's why it isn't in my diff
2015-08-14 19:16 -Kamikaze-: I mean, I get your point, but this should be okay as well in my view
2015-08-14 19:16 Spy: I know what you want to say
2015-08-14 19:17 Spy: But
2015-08-14 19:17 Spy: There is something not only you think it is fine, then it is fine
2015-08-14 19:17 Spy: Just like the case like Tidek's approved map
2015-08-14 19:17 Spy: When I was new BAT
2015-08-14 19:17 -Kamikaze-: oh yeah I remember that
2015-08-14 19:17 Spy: He asked me to check it for approved
2015-08-14 19:17 Spy: 1/16 LN
2015-08-14 19:18 Spy: I know his points
2015-08-14 19:18 -Kamikaze-: I'm okay with changing it to normal notes
2015-08-14 19:18 -Kamikaze-: I jsut think this would be cooler
2015-08-14 19:18 -Kamikaze-: gives that unique feeling
2015-08-14 19:18 Spy: But, we should think for players, and since we're check team, you should know we can't pass something easily, it will cause some unnecessary troubles in the future while checking maps
2015-08-14 19:19 Spy: Yea, this is same point like Tidek said to me
2015-08-14 19:20 Spy: But when players get 200 by your unique patterns, whose problem ?
2015-08-14 19:20 Spy: QATs. Because we didn't control the quality we should give them well
2015-08-14 19:20 -Kamikaze-: I don't think that it's that easy to 200, but I get your point
2015-08-14 19:20 Spy: Say it directly
2015-08-14 19:20 -Kamikaze-: how about making them 1/2 long instead
2015-08-14 19:22 Spy: QAT and normal mapper's views have some conflict, I only can say it, sometimes player think QAT dq the map with stupid reasons or what, but stand in our side, we just point out our concerns and discuss about it. Finally post it for dq reasons
2015-08-14 19:22 Spy: 1/2 is ok I think
2015-08-14 19:22 Spy: But does it necessary ?
2015-08-14 19:23 -Kamikaze-: it isn't necessary, but I want to follow zenx's style
2015-08-14 19:23 Spy: I think, I should repeat again
2015-08-14 19:23 Spy: Style, it is not only 1 way, it depends on how you use it in every songs
2015-08-14 19:23 -Kamikaze-: I'm aware of that
2015-08-14 19:24 -Kamikaze-: I don't want it to look same as in my diff or fullenere's diff tho
2015-08-14 19:24 Spy: I don't really want to ruin mapper's style
2015-08-14 19:24 Spy: But, did you ever thought a question ?
2015-08-14 19:24 Spy: Why some mappers' style can be accepted and be liked so much, but some are not ?
2015-08-14 19:25 -Kamikaze-: well because some just play bad
2015-08-14 19:25 -Kamikaze-: and some not
2015-08-14 19:25 Spy: So if follow to your words, my haters play my maps bad, right ?
2015-08-14 19:27 -Kamikaze-: well your so called haters do think that your maps play bad
2015-08-14 19:27 -Kamikaze-: I would say that most of your maps play well
2015-08-14 19:27 -Kamikaze-: but we're going slightly off topi here lol
2015-08-14 19:27 Spy: You don't want to make the diff like a normal diff
2015-08-14 19:27 Spy: Yea so I'm back to topic
2015-08-14 19:27 Spy: I think it has much ways to make it special
2015-08-14 19:27 Spy: Not only one way
2015-08-14 19:28 -Kamikaze-: I agree
2015-08-14 19:28 Spy: Sometimes
2015-08-14 19:28 -Kamikaze-: actually after thinking it through I think that 1/2 LNs will accent instruments better
2015-08-14 19:28 -Kamikaze-: I'll use them
2015-08-14 19:28 Spy: If you make your map TOO SPECIAL, it will causes it messy
2015-08-14 19:28 -Kamikaze-: I understand that
2015-08-14 19:29 Spy: What reason makes you want to discuss about it to me ? GD mapper complain ? Or you don't hope him to change it ?
2015-08-14 19:30 -Kamikaze-: I just disagree with some things that you guys pointed out
2015-08-14 19:30 -Kamikaze-: and I don't want to throw a tantrum, I want to calmly discuss it with you
2015-08-14 19:31 -Kamikaze-: zenx told me that I can delete his diff if I want, but I don't want to do that
2015-08-14 19:31 -Kamikaze-: I would rather just talk it through with you and get it re-qualified
2015-08-14 19:33 -Kamikaze-: 00:00:281 - that inconsistency (1 chord here instead of 2) was there because it's a start of the map and I don't want to make players face doubled pattern right away
2015-08-14 19:33 -Kamikaze-: is that bad?
2015-08-14 19:33 Spy: First, I have to tell you, I don't do dq for long time already, unless some emergency cases, but about this map, I only disagree with LN usages, too messy, other parts are fine
2015-08-14 19:33 Spy: I'm still same as that, "Do you think it is necessary"
2015-08-14 19:34 -Kamikaze-: that's what I wanted to discuss/improve
2015-08-14 19:34 -Kamikaze-: I think that making it inconsistent here was necessarcy in order to make it better to play
2015-08-14 19:35 Spy: Honestly
2015-08-14 19:35 Spy: 00:00:281 (281|0,612|1,778|3,944|4) - I can understand these
2015-08-14 19:36 Spy: 00:00:281 (281|4) - What is this and for, and why stop at 00:00:778 - , I tried to understand it well, but I didn't get it well
2015-08-14 19:37 Spy: It looks really messy for me
2015-08-14 19:37 -Kamikaze-: oh, that one is the problem
2015-08-14 19:37 -Kamikaze-: I just made that messy I have to agree there
2015-08-14 19:37 Spy: Other parts just same problem
2015-08-14 19:38 -Kamikaze-: I changed this LN to normal note and added another one for that crash sound
2015-08-14 19:38 Spy: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3533459
2015-08-14 19:38 Spy: How do you think
2015-08-14 19:38 Spy: I can understand yours, but I can't understand these
2015-08-14 19:39 -Kamikaze-: running out of space I assume
2015-08-14 19:39 -Kamikaze-: 00:02:436 (2436|4) - this should end earlier, right?
2015-08-14 19:40 Spy: it seems not the issue
2015-08-14 19:40 Spy: 00:03:265 (3265|4) - it seems this is for clap ? if so I don't get why it must be LN
2015-08-14 19:41 -Kamikaze-: it isn't for clap
2015-08-14 19:41 -Kamikaze-: it's just hitsound that accents the clap because there's no room for clap note
2015-08-14 19:41 -Kamikaze-: I've actually mapped this in a very similar way on my 8k, but I have a lot more space there so I could accent the clap
2015-08-14 19:44 Spy: Actually
2015-08-14 19:45 Spy: I only understand what are these LNs start for, but I don't get what is end for
2015-08-14 19:45 Spy: looks very messy
2015-08-14 19:46 -Kamikaze-: most of them, for example 00:04:259 (4259|3,4259|4,4259|0,4259|1,4591|3,4591|1,4757|4,4757|0,4922|1,4922|3) - would end right where next LN starts, but that's unplayable so it ends a tiny bit earlier to make a playable gap
2015-08-14 19:46 -Kamikaze-: the idea is that it's an inverted pattern
2015-08-14 19:48 -Kamikaze-: brb 10-15 mins
2015-08-14 19:48 Spy: OK
2015-08-14 19:48 -Kamikaze-: I'll ask you in advance if you could help me adjust part on 00:32:608 - to make it good
2015-08-14 19:49 Spy: Alright, better earlier
2015-08-14 19:49 Spy: I'll sleep soon
2015-08-14 19:53 -Kamikaze-: ok back
2015-08-14 19:54 -Kamikaze-: I just had to clean one carpet instead of three whee xD
2015-08-14 19:55 -Kamikaze-: I would like to hear your opinion on what exactly you'd want me to change in the 00:01:275 - 00:06:249 - part
2015-08-14 19:55 Spy: I see :p
2015-08-14 19:58 Spy: How if I say all ?
2015-08-14 19:58 Spy: First, I tried to play it once
2015-08-14 19:59 Spy: Then, I can't understand it in playing
2015-08-14 19:59 Spy: It is a very simple rhythm, but your patterns are too messy to understand
2015-08-14 20:00 Spy: Playability is minor honestly
2015-08-14 20:02 -Kamikaze-: hmm
2015-08-14 20:02 -Kamikaze-: what about [http://puu.sh/jBvuI/52ede87660.png this] at 00:02:436 - ?
2015-08-14 20:03 -Kamikaze-: it's the most accurate I can do
2015-08-14 20:05 Spy: I can accept it
2015-08-14 20:05 -Kamikaze-: okay, cool
2015-08-14 20:06 Spy: It looks better
2015-08-14 20:06 -Kamikaze-: moving on
2015-08-14 20:06 -Kamikaze-: what about [http://puu.sh/jBvL1/213b14fca2.png this] for those inverse patterns?
2015-08-14 20:08 Spy: It's fine but the patterns may need to rearrange
2015-08-14 20:08 Spy: I mean, it may not good for playing
2015-08-14 20:08 -Kamikaze-: actually I wasn't worried about playability at all, because it's pretty much a inversed symmetrical trill
2015-08-14 20:09 -Kamikaze-: it's quite easy to hit, especially now with bigger gaps
2015-08-14 20:11 Spy: Well, since it is Hard, not Insane, not Expert, you can't think about it in your view, you had better to think about it by standing in those really new players, it will be helpful for you to improve your maps
2015-08-14 20:12 -Kamikaze-: it works as Insane in this spread
2015-08-14 20:12 -Kamikaze-: each keymode consists of 4 difficulties
2015-08-14 20:12 -Kamikaze-: and the hardest ones are meant to be Insane or Hard+ at least
2015-08-14 20:13 -Kamikaze-: it is a well known fact that star rating heavily underrates LN heavy maps
2015-08-14 20:13 -Kamikaze-: so I'm judging it based on actual difficulty spread-wise
2015-08-14 20:13 Spy: That is your definition, but are you sure players, and other QATs think so ?
2015-08-14 20:14 -Kamikaze-: players - yes QATs - mostly yes
2015-08-14 20:14 -Kamikaze-: in fact even developers are aware of that
2015-08-14 20:14 -Kamikaze-: namely Tom - the guy who made SR algorithms
2015-08-14 20:14 -Kamikaze-: he's gathering our opinions and working on new SR system
2015-08-14 20:21 Spy: Talk about it next time
2015-08-14 20:22 Spy: Since I have to go to work tomorrow, I have to sleep earlier, it is 02:21 here
2015-08-14 20:22 -Kamikaze-: but yeah
2015-08-14 20:22 -Kamikaze-: okay
2015-08-14 20:22 -Kamikaze-: can we go through rest of this tomorrow?
2015-08-14 20:22 -Kamikaze-: I'll try to adjust by myself and update afterwards
2015-08-14 20:22 Spy: It's ok
2015-08-14 20:22 Spy: Just adjust by such way
2015-08-14 20:23 Spy: I think I may not disagree too much
2015-08-14 20:23 Spy: And you can ask Starry for opinions too
2015-08-14 20:23 -Kamikaze-: I'll make it so LNs end where some others start too so there won't be much problems
2015-08-14 20:23 -Kamikaze-: he told me to ask expew but expew ignores me
2015-08-14 20:23 -Kamikaze-: lol
2015-08-14 20:23 Spy: OK, I'll expect you do it well
2015-08-14 20:23 Spy: ExPew is uh
2015-08-14 20:23 Spy: busy
2015-08-14 20:23 Spy: :p
2015-08-14 20:23 -Kamikaze-: yeah I know
2015-08-14 20:24 -Kamikaze-: I remember struggle with funka
2015-08-14 20:24 -Kamikaze-: lol
2015-08-14 20:24 -Kamikaze-: anyway, thanks a lot for that!
2015-08-14 20:24 -Kamikaze-: what hour would be good for you tomorrow to discuss that?
2015-08-14 20:25 Spy: You're welcome, well, when you see I'm in idle, it may be fine I think
2015-08-14 20:25 Spy: I'll be free after 23:00 ? I think
2015-08-14 20:25 -Kamikaze-: okay, cool
2015-08-14 20:25 -Kamikaze-: \o/
2015-08-14 20:26 Spy: Good luck then :D
2015-08-14 20:26 -Kamikaze-: thanks!
2015-08-14 20:26 Spy: You're welcome, alright, see you ~
2015-08-14 20:26 -Kamikaze-: cya o/
2015-08-14 20:26 Spy: o/