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Koji Kondo - Bolero of Fire [CatchTheBeat]

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Topic Starter
DragonSlayer96

Kurokami wrote:

DragonSlayer96 wrote:

For a spread to be rankable, all it needs is three difficulties (i.e. Cup - Platter or Salad - Rain) if it is CtB specific unless it is something such as a marathon map.
I would like to correct this sentence. This is true in all mode. Only spreads with E-N-H or N-H-I can be ranked (E= Easy, N= Normal, H= Hard, I= Insane), this means spreads like E-H-I are unrankable. And even a 5+ minutes map can have more difficulties, just no one cares to map more. :D
Sorry, I should have said every game mode. That was my bad, just used to using the spread that said mapset is about, not all game modes. The reason behind this is because there is too big of a jump in difficulty if you do something like E - H - I. Now - if you want to - you can have a mapset have a E - N - H - I - I and just be fine with rank, just as long as the song itself supports all of the difficulties that you are trying to map without overmapping or putting jumps in places where jumps shouldn't be. Yea, people do like challenging maps, but if the map does not make sense for the song, odds are it needs to be changed. For mapping, difficulty =/= rank (as in just making a bunch of hard maps that don't follow even the beat of the song) but it is more of a "does this feel right for this song?" If it does not feel right, that is where modders come in and offer suggestions on how to make it feel like the map is flowing with the song, making the play experience a good one instead of a frustrating one. I'm not upset at you either Gommy, just offering you more advise so you can become a good modder down the road.
Negri_sk
[Platter]
So the gap between Salad and Platter is kinda low i am here to fix that. The kiai time can be much more hard than it is right now, i am gonna give a suggestion for it don't say no instantly apply everything and see how it plays
( 00:21:050 (1) - x60
00:21:301 (2) - x288
00:21:550 (3) - x0
00:21:801 (4) - x352
00:22:050 (1) - x240
00:22:301 (2) - x48
00:22:550 (3) - x488
00:22:801 (4) - x240
00:23:050 (1) - x192
00:23:301 (2) - x44
00:23:550 (3) - x228
00:23:801 (4) - x8
00:24:050 (1) - x392
00:24:301 (2) - x184
00:24:550 (3) - x88
00:24:801 (4) - x488
00:25:050 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - Keep them like they are )
00:03:550 (1,2,3) - CTRL+G
If you apply everything it'll go from 2.82 to 2.95 wich is great imo. I saw the salad ones and these should be ok then
[Cup]
00:11:050 (2) - CTRL+G
00:11:050 (2) - x352
Topic Starter
DragonSlayer96

Negri_sk wrote:

[Platter]
So the gap between Salad and Platter is kinda low i am here to fix that. The kiai time can be much more hard than it is right now, i am gonna give a suggestion for it don't say no instantly apply everything and see how it plays
( 00:21:050 (1) - x60
00:21:301 (2) - x288
00:21:550 (3) - x0
00:21:801 (4) - x352
00:22:050 (1) - x240
00:22:301 (2) - x48
00:22:550 (3) - x488
00:22:801 (4) - x240
00:23:050 (1) - x192
00:23:301 (2) - x44
00:23:550 (3) - x228
00:23:801 (4) - x8
00:24:050 (1) - x392
00:24:301 (2) - x184
00:24:550 (3) - x88
00:24:801 (4) - x488
00:25:050 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - Keep them like they are )
00:03:550 (1,2,3) - CTRL+G
If you apply everything it'll go from 2.82 to 2.95 wich is great imo. No I do not like how this plays at all. there is a 0.9 gap between cup - salad and a 0.81 between salad and platter. I feel that this is an appropriate jump also in difficulty also because it is fairly even between the three.

I saw the salad ones and these should be ok then
[Cup]
00:11:050 (2) - CTRL+G Ok
00:11:050 (2) - x352 Ok
MBomb
Okay recheck let's go.

00:09:050 (4) - The jump from 3 to 4 should be bigger than 2 to 3 for more emphasis on the slightly stronger drum beat, so move this to x:32.
00:15:050 (3) - Move this to x:320 for stronger emphasis on the strong drum beat.
00:21:050 (1) - Ctrl+H and move to x:192, this drum beat is stronger than 2, so should have more distance, and also emphasises the start of the kiai.
00:23:050 (1) - Move this to x:80 for a less awkward jump from 2, and "progression" in distance from this to 2 and 2 to 3.
00:24:050 (1) - Move this to x:16, a very strong note should have a bit more distance in my opinion.
00:04:051 (4) - Doesn't feel like it should be a dash to me, but looks like one, move to x:320?
00:06:051 (4) - Move this to x:216, this feels like a dash should be here, but currently this is possible without dashing.
00:21:801 (3) - Move this to x:464 for a less awkward jump from 2.
00:22:551 (2) - Move this to x:336 for a less awkward jump to 3.
00:04:050 (4) - Move this to x:304, I feel it plays better.
00:05:717 (7) - This section flows better if you move this to x:288, keeps the HDash whilst creating nice flow as the movement after the hyper is in the same direction, instead of a sudden stop.
00:06:050 (1) - Move this to x:16, forcing the catcher against the wall after a hyper can throw a player off.
00:10:883 (2) - Move this to x:400 for better flow, to have the direction of movement constant at these sections.
00:11:383 (5) - ^, but to x:32 instead.
00:26:051 (1,2) - Move 1 to x:496 and 2 to x:16 to avoid forcing the catcher against the wall at these sections, and for better flow.

Alright, done ;)
Topic Starter
DragonSlayer96

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

Okay recheck let's go.

00:09:050 (4) - The jump from 3 to 4 should be bigger than 2 to 3 for more emphasis on the slightly stronger drum beat, so move this to x:32. Ok
00:15:050 (3) - Move this to x:320 for stronger emphasis on the strong drum beat. ^
00:21:050 (1) - Ctrl+H and move to x:192, this drum beat is stronger than 2, so should have more distance, and also emphasises the start of the kiai. Meh moved to 208 for more consistancy during kaia
00:23:050 (1) - Move this to x:80 for a less awkward jump from 2, and "progression" in distance from this to 2 and 2 to 3. Ok no real issue with flow so I will try
00:24:050 (1) - Move this to x:16, a very strong note should have a bit more distance in my opinion. ^
00:04:051 (4) - Doesn't feel like it should be a dash to me, but looks like one, move to x:320? Nah I like how it is currently.
00:06:051 (4) - Move this to x:216, this feels like a dash should be here, but currently this is possible without dashing. Ok
00:21:801 (3) - Move this to x:464 for a less awkward jump from 2. ^
00:22:551 (2) - Move this to x:336 for a less awkward jump to 3. ^
00:04:050 (4) - Move this to x:304, I feel it plays better.
00:05:717 (7) - This section flows better if you move this to x:288, keeps the HDash whilst creating nice flow as the movement after the hyper is in the same direction, instead of a sudden stop.
00:06:050 (1) - Move this to x:16, forcing the catcher against the wall after a hyper can throw a player off.
00:10:883 (2) - Move this to x:400 for better flow, to have the direction of movement constant at these sections.
00:11:383 (5) - ^, but to x:32 instead.
00:26:051 (1,2) - Move 1 to x:496 and 2 to x:16 to avoid forcing the catcher against the wall at these sections, and for better flow.
Ok platter all applied


so this mod increased cup by 0.01, decreased salad by 0.01 and platter has the same star rating, lol. so it has remained (for the most part) consistant.
Alright, done ;)
alienflybot


Mod Requested by DragonSlayer96

[ General]

  • Artist / Romanised Artist
  1. Change Artist to 近藤浩治; Romanised Artist to Koji Kondo.

    Tags
  2. Change 'Orcarina' to 'Ocarina' since it is a typo.

    Slider Tick Rate
  3. You may increase it to 2 for all your diffs, since the long sliders are too boring without those large petals.

    AIMod
  4. Please check it because there are some objects that are unsnapped.
[Cup]

  • Gameplay
  1. 00:04:550 (2) - Quite boring after a reverse, I think you should remove 1 reverse part.
  2. 00:06:551 - There is a sound here and you didn't map it like you did before at 00:00:051 (1,2) so maybe you have to add notes at this place.
[Salad]

  • Gameplay
  1. 00:03:551 (1,2,3,4) - Really weird to catch, as the distance of (2,3) is too small that it gives confusion to players of whether dashing is needed for (3,4) or not. Therefore I suggest remapping this part by changing pattern or notes.
  2. 00:09:551 (1,2,3,4) - ^, but keep the dash of (3,4).
  3. 00:11:885 (3,1) - Add a dash like you did at 00:05:885 (3,4)
  4. 00:12:051 - 00:21:051 - Quite boring here since the sliders are reversed twice and the patterns in overall are likely the same. I would suggest changing some of the patterns.
  5. 00:21:551 (2,3,1) - Remove the dash of (2,3) and add dash at (3,1).
  6. 00:22:551 (2,3,1) - ^
  7. 00:26:551 (2,3) - Lower the distance a bit, and remove the dash if possible.
[Platter]

  • Gameplay
  1. 00:00:883 (3,4) - Better have a dash here.
  2. 00:01:050 (4,5,6,7) - Remove dash of (4,5) and add dash at (6,7).
  3. 00:03:550 (1,2,3,4) - Awkward distance at (2,3), please enlarge it or it is too hard to read here, also keep dash of (3,4) while fixing.
  4. 00:04:717 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Please remove HDashes at (3,4) and (6,7) because the beats are not strong enough to have HDashes.
  5. 00:05:883 (8,1) - Please make (1) like *this for an easier jumping.
  6. 00:06:050 (1,2,3) - Remove dash at (1,2) while keeping dash of (3,4).
  7. 00:07:050 (4,5,6,7) - Remove dash at (5,6) and HDash at (6,7), then add a little dash at (6,7).
  8. 00:09:883 (3,4) - Add a dash.
  9. 00:10:717 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same as 00:04:717 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8)
  10. 00:11:883 (8,1) - You can add a HDash to indicate stanza change if you want, but it is optional.
  11. 00:12:050 (1,2,3,4) - Remove dashes at (1,2,3) and lower the distance of (3,4) to remove HDash.
  12. 00:15:883 (3,4) - Remove HDash.
  13. 00:18:883 (3,4) - ^
  14. 00:21:051 - 00:27:051 - What about remapping this part to fit the drum sound in audio background? You can just use those 1/3 timeline to do so.

Good luck ranking the map!
-AFB
Topic Starter
DragonSlayer96

alienflybot wrote:



Mod Requested by DragonSlayer96

[ General]

  • Artist / Romanised Artist
  1. Change Artist to 近藤浩治; Romanised Artist to Koji Kondo.

    Tags
  2. Change 'Orcarina' to 'Ocarina' since it is a typo.

    Slider Tick Rate
  3. You may increase it to 2 for all your diffs, since the long sliders are too boring without those large petals. Meh Increased Cup and Salad by one, Platter by two

    AIMod
  4. Please check it because there are some objects that are unsnapped.
[Cup]

  • Gameplay
  1. 00:04:550 (2) - Quite boring after a reverse, I think you should remove 1 reverse part.
  2. 00:06:551 - There is a sound here and you didn't map it like you did before at 00:00:051 (1,2) so maybe you have to add notes at this place. No From 00:06:051 - to kaia time I am mapping to the "boom" of the drum
[Salad]

  • Gameplay
  1. 00:03:551 (1,2,3,4) - Really weird to catch, as the distance of (2,3) is too small that it gives confusion to players of whether dashing is needed for (3,4) or not. Therefore I suggest remapping this part by changing pattern or notes.
  2. 00:09:551 (1,2,3,4) - ^, but keep the dash of (3,4).
  3. 00:11:885 (3,1) - Add a dash like you did at 00:05:885 (3,4)
  4. 00:12:051 - 00:21:051 - Quite boring here since the sliders are reversed twice and the patterns in overall are likely the same. I would suggest changing some of the patterns. Meh Just mapped them the same because the sound under them are the same. Will change the middle set though
  5. 00:21:551 (2,3,1) - Remove the dash of (2,3) and add dash at (3,1).
  6. 00:22:551 (2,3,1) - ^
  7. 00:26:551 (2,3) - Lower the distance a bit, and remove the dash if possible.
[Platter]

  • Gameplay
  1. 00:00:883 (3,4) - Better have a dash here.
  2. 00:01:050 (4,5,6,7) - Remove dash of (4,5) and add dash at (6,7).
  3. 00:03:550 (1,2,3,4) - Awkward distance at (2,3), please enlarge it or it is too hard to read here, also keep dash of (3,4) while fixing. Ok enlarged it somewhat.
  4. 00:04:717 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Please remove HDashes at (3,4) and (6,7) because the beats are not strong enough to have HDashes.
  5. 00:05:883 (8,1) - Please make (1) like *this for an easier jumping. ;-; Took out the jump with previous change
  6. 00:06:050 (1,2,3) - Remove dash at (1,2) while keeping dash of (3,4).
  7. 00:07:050 (4,5,6,7) - Remove dash at (5,6) and HDash at (6,7), then add a little dash at (6,7).
  8. 00:09:883 (3,4) - Add a dash.
  9. 00:10:717 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same as 00:04:717 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) No you can hear the "boom" of the drums on these hypers so i feel that the beats are strong enough for hypers
  10. 00:11:883 (8,1) - You can add a HDash to indicate stanza change if you want, but it is optional. ! For now, no change
  11. 00:12:050 (1,2,3,4) - Remove dashes at (1,2,3) and lower the distance of (3,4) to remove HDash.
  12. 00:15:883 (3,4) - Remove HDash. No There for the "boom" of the drum
  13. 00:18:883 (3,4) - ^ ^
  14. 00:21:051 - 00:27:051 - What about remapping this part to fit the drum sound in audio background? You can just use those 1/3 timeline to do so. No Like I have said before, I want kaia time to be to the main beat, not the underbeat (so - in essence - the same notes for all three diffs. If I wasn't lazy and this could support a Rain, it would be mapped to the underbeat though)

Good luck ranking the map!
-AFB
Just to let you know, if I did not respond to a line, I did make said change

Hopefully it will be ranked soon
Fii
The only thing that sticks out to me is the source... Wouldn't ''The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time'' be a better source? The song comes almost directly from the game, and it seems like ''Zelda Reorchestrated'' would fit much better under the tags, seeing how it's only the name of the album artist. Source:
''Artist and album artist are "Zelda Reorchestrated"
http://zreo.perix.co.uk/#OoT
Not a whole lot to say about this difficulty, it's mostly fine, though...
00:20:050 (3) - the sudden slow down into this note and then the push into 00:20:550 (4) - is kind of weird to play. Maybe move them to x:320 and x:432, respectively?
00:24:550 (2) - would look nicer at x:176, seeing as the gap between 00:24:051 (1,2) - and 00:24:550 (2,1) - is a teensy bit weird looking.
The main problem with this difficulty is you jump between a hard salad and an easy salad throughout the map. I think the map should start off easier, and progressively get harder, instead of jumping all over the place.
00:01:051 (5) - I suggest moving it to x:176, as it looks nicer when with the three circles before it.
00:03:718 (2,3,4) - Maybe move these to x:408,x:304, and x:368, respectively? It flows a lot nicer and is less likely to confuse new players when they are learning to use hyperdash.
00:06:885 (3) - move to x:328 and 00:07:051 (4) - to x:224? Like before, it looks nicer and is less likely to confuse players.
00:08:051 (4) - move to x:128. That gap there isn't needed for a salad of this difficulty. It would work if the gap was expanded on a harder salad.
00:10:051 (4) - move to x:160 for visual and difficulty reasons.
00:14:051 (3) - why not move it to x:56? That slow down between the slider and the note is weird.
The rest of the map has some questionable spacing, but nothing I would touch.
I've got little to say about this one, but...
00:11:717 (7,8,1) - the two circles start a nice flow but it's interrupted abruptly by the slider. I found it annoying to play that part...
00:12:883 (3,4) - it's obviously playable, but it's a pain to catch. Maybe reduce the distance between the two?
The rest of the platter looks fine to me.
Sorry if it's bad, it's my first mod.
Topic Starter
DragonSlayer96

Kaitlin wrote:

The only thing that sticks out to me is the source... Wouldn't ''The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time'' be a better source? The song comes almost directly from the game, and it seems like ''Zelda Reorchestrated'' would fit much better under the tags, seeing how it's only the name of the album artist. Source:
''Artist and album artist are "Zelda Reorchestrated"
http://zreo.perix.co.uk/#OoT

The reason why I have "Zelda Reorchestrated" and not ''The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time'' is because the song from ''The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time'' does not have the drums in the beginning. "Zelda Reorchestrated" does have the drums so that is why I have the source how I have it.
Not a whole lot to say about this difficulty, it's mostly fine, though...
00:20:050 (3) - the sudden slow down into this note and then the push into 00:20:550 (4) - is kind of weird to play. Maybe move them to x:320 and x:432, respectively? Ok
00:24:550 (2) - would look nicer at x:176, seeing as the gap between 00:24:051 (1,2) - and 00:24:550 (2,1) - is a teensy bit weird looking. No the spacing is because of how the song peaks there and i am following that with the distance.
The main problem with this difficulty is you jump between a hard salad and an easy salad throughout the map. I think the map should start off easier, and progressively get harder, instead of jumping all over the place.
00:01:051 (5) - I suggest moving it to x:176, as it looks nicer when with the three circles before it. Ok
00:03:718 (2,3,4) - Maybe move these to x:408,x:304, and x:368, respectively? It flows a lot nicer and is less likely to confuse new players when they are learning to use hyperdash. ??? you dont put hyperdashes in Salad, only dashes
00:06:885 (3) - move to x:328 and 00:07:051 (4) - to x:224? Like before, it looks nicer and is less likely to confuse players. No The dash is for the strong drum beat
00:08:051 (4) - move to x:128. That gap there isn't needed for a salad of this difficulty. It would work if the gap was expanded on a harder salad. ^
00:10:051 (4) - move to x:160 for visual and difficulty reasons. ^
00:14:051 (3) - why not move it to x:56? That slow down between the slider and the note is weird. Ok
The rest of the map has some questionable spacing, but nothing I would touch.
I've got little to say about this one, but...
00:11:717 (7,8,1) - the two circles start a nice flow but it's interrupted abruptly by the slider. I found it annoying to play that part... No Change it is mapped like the other drum roll finish at 00:05:717 (7,8,1) -
00:12:883 (3,4) - it's obviously playable, but it's a pain to catch. Maybe reduce the distance between the two?
The rest of the platter looks fine to me. Ok
Sorry if it's bad, it's my first mod.
Virgo
I think you need to do longer intervals between notes, Well it's not a long map, you must make sure that it was not easy, and that was not easy for pp.
Topic Starter
DragonSlayer96

MisterLoLoBen wrote:

I think you need to do longer intervals between notes, Well it's not a long map, you must make sure that it was not easy, and that was not easy for pp.
The intervals between notes are following the song itself. I also do not create maps for pp gains either. I make beatmaps to suit the song itself. If the song is hellish, then the beatmap is hellish. If the song is calm, the beatmap is calm. I do not and will not overmap a song or add jumps/hypers where they make no sense just for pp gains or for difficulty. If you are trying to compare this map to Kido Ibuki & Yamazaki Erii - pupa for difficulty, then please stop. Pupa has double the BPM of this song and can support the higher difficulties.
Virgo

DragonSlayer96 wrote:

MisterLoLoBen wrote:

I think you need to do longer intervals between notes, Well it's not a long map, you must make sure that it was not easy, and that was not easy for pp.
The intervals between notes are following the song itself. I also do not create maps for pp gains either. I make beatmaps to suit the song itself. If the song is hellish, then the beatmap is hellish. If the song is calm, the beatmap is calm. I do not and will not overmap a song or add jumps/hypers where they make no sense just for pp gains or for difficulty. If you are trying to compare this map to Kido Ibuki & Yamazaki Erii - pupa for difficulty, then please stop. Pupa has double the BPM of this song and can support the higher difficulties.
I just thought that it easily for this map, I'm sorry :С
koliron
m4m

[General]
  1. HP: 3, 4, 5
  2. AR: i suggest you cup 5.5 and salad 6.5
  3. CS:
    -Cup CS 3 It is too much for cup, 2.7 or 2.8?
    -Salad CS 3.3 or 3.4?
    -Platter CS 4 It's too much for platter, 3.7 or 3.8?


[Cup]
  1. The sliders in a difficulty to new people, should be with less movement (example 00:00:550 (2) , 00:04:550 (2) , 00:11:051 (2) , 00:14:050 (2) 00:17:050 (1) 00:19:050 (2) )
    With respect to Kiai, you should change distance in various:
  2. 00:21:550 (2,3,1) - (3) x: 240
  3. 00:22:051 (1,2,1) - (2) x: 224, (1) x: 112
  4. 00:23:050 (1,2) - too close
  5. 00:23:551 (2,1) - too far
  6. 00:24:050 (1,2,1) - between 1 and 2 are far away, it is also a very boring pattern, try (2) ctrl + g and reduce distances
  7. 00:25:051 (1,2,1) - too far


[Salad]
  1. CS 3.3 or 3.4?
  2. 00:21:051 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - This is very repetitive, try to change at least the second pattern


[Platter]
  1. CS 4 It's too much for platter, 3.7 or 3.8?
  2. What is the need to force such a high SV?
  3. 00:21:050 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - It's Kiai! make this more harder


I notice that you use equal sliders, isn't bad, but adds beauty to the map if you change between them

No more
GL!
Topic Starter
DragonSlayer96

koliron wrote:

m4m

[General]
  1. HP: 3, 4, 5 Ok It might be a tad bit too high so will change
  2. AR: i suggest you cup 5.5 and salad 6.5 No That is too slow for the song.
  3. CS:
    -Cup CS 3 It is too much for cup, 2.7 or 2.8? No CS 3 is the normal for a cup
    -Salad CS 3.3 or 3.4? No one or two ticks lower won't really affect anything.
    -Platter CS 4 It's too much for platter, 3.7 or 3.8? No CS 4 is the normal for a platter


[Cup]
  1. The sliders in a difficulty to new people, should be with less movement (example 00:00:550 (2) , 00:04:550 (2) , 00:11:051 (2) , 00:14:050 (2) 00:17:050 (1) 00:19:050 (2) ) No it is a very laid back pattern that shouldn't be too hard for new players. I have seen harder patterns in recently ranked Cups than these sliders.
    With respect to Kiai, you should change distance in various:
  2. 00:21:550 (2,3,1) - (3) x: 240 No doesn't flow right unless I change the entire kaia time
  3. 00:22:051 (1,2,1) - (2) x: 224, (1) x: 112 ^
  4. 00:23:050 (1,2) - too close No music dips here before spiking for the next few notes so a smaller distance is suited for this.
  5. 00:23:551 (2,1) - too far No though it is a decent size gap, it is still easily catchable without dashing and it is the strongest notes in the song.
  6. 00:24:050 (1,2,1) - between 1 and 2 are far away, it is also a very boring pattern, try (2) ctrl + g and reduce distances No Ctrl + g on 2 will just make the gap bigger.
  7. 00:25:051 (1,2,1) - too far No there is still enough time to hesitate and catch this so no change.


[Salad]
  1. CS 3.3 or 3.4? No as stated above
  2. 00:21:051 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - This is very repetitive, try to change at least the second pattern Ok tried to increase distance a bit to follow music better.


[Platter]
  1. CS 4 It's too much for platter, 3.7 or 3.8? No as stated above
  2. What is the need to force such a high SV? Because this song was originally mapped to double the BPM. When I cut the BPM in half, I had to double the SV to keep the map the same or all of the mods people posted would've been a complete waste of time on their end.
  3. 00:21:050 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - It's Kiai! make this more harder No I do not go by the whole anatomy of Kaia time is the hardest part of the map. I go by kaia time is the part of the song that people know the most or will stand out the most. Buffing difficulty for one section does not make any sense to me.


I notice that you use equal sliders, isn't bad, but adds beauty to the map if you change between them ^^ thanks for the compliment

No more
GL!
Benita
mod as requested! :3

Cup
  1. 00:11:051 (2) - Feels weird to have a repeat here when 00:12:051 - is a pretty important beat considering the melody is starting here
  2. 00:17:050 (1) - same here
  3. 00:21:050 (1,2) - 00:23:050 (1,2) - Distance here is very short
Salad
  1. My main problem with this salad is the slider velocity. It makes most sliders hard to read cause it looks like you need to dash to be able to get the repeats etc. I'd just lower the slider velocity but if it has to be this high at least tilt the sliders more so they are without doubt walkable.
  2. 00:02:051 (4) - With this slider velocity this slider is easy to misread and a lot will press dash to play it and we don't want that in a Salad. Make the sliderend somewhere x:208
  3. 00:03:551 (1,2,3,4) - Make 1,2,3 walkable and havea dash to 4 instead to follow the music better.
  4. 00:05:885 (3,4) - This dash is a bit too long imo
  5. 00:07:551 (1,2,3,4) - Maybe decrease distane between 1,2,3 and increase the distance to 4
  6. 00:08:051 (4) - I'd remove slider end and put a note there instead so you can add a dash to it as previous sounds like this has had a dash.
  7. 00:11:885 (3,1) - Again, very long distance compared to other dashes
  8. 00:12:051 (1,2) - Tilt them a bit more upwards cause high slider velocity
  9. 00:24:051 (1,2,3) - antiflowy and extremely long dashes, please nerf xD
Platter
  1. 00:02:051 (7) - Again bumping into same problem as we did in Salad, make this fully walkable, as of now you need to have perfect timing to be able to catch this slider without dashing and you shouldn't dash on sliders in Platter as far as I know
  2. 00:04:050 (4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - mmmhhpp the jumps are wrongly placed to the music, the stronger beats are on slider end of 00:04:050 (4) - 00:05:050 (3) - and 00:05:550 (6) - so please add jumps to those beats instead :s same goes for this part 00:10:051 (4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
  3. 00:12:050 (1,2,3,4) - please make 1,2,3 walkable and jump to 4, as it is now it's just unnecessarily difficult
  4. 00:13:051 (4) - maybe try a slider like this https://puu.sh/tBGZN/b85426c307.png instead to follow the flow as antiflow combined with hypers isn't allowed ):
  5. 00:20:050 (7) - Make this curved to the left to follwo the flow
  6. 00:25:801 (4,1,2) - again antiflow issue, try doing something else to remove the antiflow
Hope this helped! GL <3
Topic Starter
DragonSlayer96

Benny- wrote:

mod as requested! :3

Cup
  1. 00:11:051 (2) - Feels weird to have a repeat here when 00:12:051 - is a pretty important beat considering the melody is starting here Meh followin gthe drums, not the main beat because the drums are not as exteme to map for a cup
  2. 00:17:050 (1) - same here ^
  3. 00:21:050 (1,2) - 00:23:050 (1,2) - Distance here is very short Meh purposeful because just starting going from 1/1 to 1/2 timing
Salad
  1. My main problem with this salad is the slider velocity. It makes most sliders hard to read cause it looks like you need to dash to be able to get the repeats etc. I'd just lower the slider velocity but if it has to be this high at least tilt the sliders more so they are without doubt walkable. SV that is high because the original timing got changed. In order to keep everyone elses mods from being thrown away, I upped the SV to keep the map the same. I think it was double BPM before i had to cut that in half and double the SV to what it is now
  2. 00:02:051 (4) - With this slider velocity this slider is easy to misread and a lot will press dash to play it and we don't want that in a Salad. Make the sliderend somewhere x:208 Ok
  3. 00:03:551 (1,2,3,4) - Make 1,2,3 walkable and havea dash to 4 instead to follow the music better. Ok but no dash to 4 because I dash from strong notes, not to them.
  4. 00:05:885 (3,4) - This dash is a bit too long imo Ok shortened
  5. 00:07:551 (1,2,3,4) - Maybe decrease distane between 1,2,3 and increase the distance to 4 Ok I'll try it
  6. 00:08:051 (4) - I'd remove slider end and put a note there instead so you can add a dash to it as previous sounds like this has had a dash. Nah trying to keep the map somewhat of a change through it.
  7. 00:11:885 (3,1) - Again, very long distance compared to other dashes ;-; trying not to make the next dash too hard, that is why it is there
  8. 00:12:051 (1,2) - Tilt them a bit more upwards cause high slider velocity Ok
  9. 00:24:051 (1,2,3) - antiflowy and extremely long dashes, please nerf xD ;-;The other way causes hypers and also - since it is the strongest point in kaia - i wanted the hardest part here
Platter
  1. 00:02:051 (7) - Again bumping into same problem as we did in Salad, make this fully walkable, as of now you need to have perfect timing to be able to catch this slider without dashing and you shouldn't dash on sliders in Platter as far as I know Fixed
  2. 00:04:050 (4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - mmmhhpp the jumps are wrongly placed to the music, the stronger beats are on slider end of 00:04:050 (4) - 00:05:050 (3) - and 00:05:550 (6) - so please add jumps to those beats instead :s same goes for this part 00:10:051 (4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ? jumps are on the strong ones
  3. 00:12:050 (1,2,3,4) - please make 1,2,3 walkable and jump to 4, as it is now it's just unnecessarily difficult ;-; okie
  4. 00:13:051 (4) - maybe try a slider like this https://puu.sh/tBGZN/b85426c307.png instead to follow the flow as antiflow combined with hypers isn't allowed ): ummm I have no idea of how to apply the last mod and this one together because i need to do anti-flow or i cant walk/jump to this note
  5. 00:20:050 (7) - Make this curved to the left to follow the flow ;-; I totally feel now that it is wrong, but let's see what people say
  6. 00:25:801 (4,1,2) - again antiflow issue, try doing something else to remove the antiflow ;-; cant if i want to keep the jumps in
Hope this helped! GL <3
Hareimu
21:00 Hareimu: hey there
21:00 Hareimu: wanna irc mod? :>
21:01 Hareimu: feels way better than modding via forum post
21:01 Hareimu: and I can just post the chat log on the thread to get kudo instead
21:01 DragonSlayer96: what song
21:02 *Hareimu is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/633715 Koji Kondo - Bolero of Fire [Cup]]
21:02 DragonSlayer96: and i dont mind irc mods
21:02 Hareimu: like, suggesting you stuff through here
21:02 DragonSlayer96: i have done them before
21:02 *DragonSlayer96 is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/633715 Koji Kondo - Bolero of Fire [Cup]]
21:03 DragonSlayer96: ready when you are
21:03 Hareimu: okie
21:03 Hareimu: just tested through the cup diff
21:03 Hareimu: not a single dash was used, good start
21:04 DragonSlayer96: i know how to map so the basic things like dashes/hypers wont be on them
21:04 Hareimu: ok
21:04 DragonSlayer96: always good to double check though
21:04 Hareimu: let's begin
21:04 Hareimu: first of all, I don't think using slider tickrate 2 for cup/salad fits the song
21:04 DragonSlayer96: these maps i mapped when i was really active modding and was trying to be BN
21:05 Hareimu: you see, tickrate is a property of the song, not of the map
21:05 Hareimu: and the ticks are over no sounds
21:05 Hareimu: since the sliders go over the 1/3 sounds
21:05 Hareimu: and the tick is in a 1/2 tick where there is no sound.
21:05 Hareimu: a.k.a. use str1 for both cup and salad?
21:06 DragonSlayer96: i will be back in a second. need to change keybindings before i throw this laptop
21:06 Hareimu: okie dokie
21:07 Hareimu: tell me when you're ready :>
21:07 DragonSlayer96: i hate how the F keys dont do what i want them to do
21:08 DragonSlayer96: and ready
21:08 Hareimu: ok
21:08 Hareimu: so, about the tickrate suggestion
21:08 DragonSlayer96: the TR mightve changed when i updated the timing
21:08 Hareimu: oh, I see
21:08 DragonSlayer96: normally i dont have TR of 2 for things lower than platter QwQ
21:08 Hareimu: xD
21:08 Hareimu: whelp, good to know I catched something odd
21:09 Hareimu: are they fixed now?
21:09 DragonSlayer96: yep
21:09 DragonSlayer96: meter is 6/4 though. kuro basically told me if it wasnt that, it wont ever be ranked
21:10 Hareimu: yea, he was right
21:10 Hareimu: wrong timing can lead to DQs
21:10 Hareimu: whelp, next suggestion
21:10 Hareimu: 00:25:051 (1,2,1) - this whole movement can be really, really hard for those who have just started playing ctb
21:10 DragonSlayer96: i know that
21:11 Hareimu: even if you can easily play it
21:11 Hareimu: beginners may not
21:11 DragonSlayer96: oh, saying i know that to comment before your link, lol
21:11 Hareimu: so I suggest moving 00:25:801 (2) - to x:208
21:12 DragonSlayer96: moved. dont see that big of a change on it
21:12 Hareimu: before we move on, I wanna talk to you about the NC usage on the map
21:13 Hareimu: you see, NCs should normally be over downbeats like 00:03:051 - this one
21:13 DragonSlayer96: for testplay, seemed too far so i moved it to 256
21:13 Hareimu: new comboes define different sections of the song from one another
21:13 Hareimu: and the "clearing plate up to catch next stuff" animation should follow suit
21:14 Hareimu: if the plate clears up over a major downbeat, it would look weird
21:14 DragonSlayer96: 00:03:050 (5) - is the end of the string of notes, that is why it is clearing that. if i have it clearing the note before, it literally confuses me because it does not follow the song
21:15 Hareimu: the most prominent sound is at (5) though
21:15 Hareimu: listen closely
21:16 Hareimu: even though (1) has more than one sound (3 consecutive 1/2 sounds), it's not more prominent than the strong drum slam audible at (5)
21:16 Hareimu: strong sounds are normally what define new sections
21:17 Hareimu: if you still don't believe me, look at the time signature of the whole song. it's ONE, two, three, four, five, six, ONE, two, three, four, five, six and so on and so forth
21:17 DragonSlayer96: one of the ways that i map is that strong notes trigger things, not end things. so strong notes trigger dashes and platter clears
21:17 Hareimu: I can understand that
21:18 Hareimu: but if you look at most ranked maps, the dashes are directed to the strong sound and not to the sound next to it.
21:18 Hareimu: in the same way, new comboes are over the strong sounds, and not to the sounds after them.
21:19 Hareimu: it has been done in this way since forever now, and for good reason.
21:19 DragonSlayer96: i know. to me, dashing from a weak note to a strong note is not a smart idea. there is nothing about the weak note that makes me want to dash and that is the biggest reason why i do mod differently
21:20 DragonSlayer96: but i know ctb was taken from std mapping
21:20 Hareimu: I used to think the same way you do right now.
21:21 Hareimu: if you don't believe me, look at my world's end, girl's rondo (asterisk remix) rendition that is now graveyarded
21:21 DragonSlayer96: its probably a good map
21:21 Hareimu: after 8 downbeats, I start to do the same thing you do right now
21:21 Hareimu: make dashes start from strong sounds and not go to the strong sounds
21:22 Hareimu: and I actually did it not because I believed that's the correct way of doing it, but because I wanted to copy spectator's akatsuki no tsuki patterns to see if I could use them myself too
21:22 Hareimu: but after testing and testing and testing it over and over again, I started to feel it played weirdly.
21:23 Hareimu: so yea, going to the point
21:24 Hareimu: me myself and a lot of other modders will very probably tell you the same thing I'm telling you right now
21:24 DragonSlayer96: if spec does map like that, no wonder i like his style. and yea, quite a few think i do it backwards. i have had this told to me along with "make your maps harder, they should give pp"
21:25 Hareimu: woahwoahwoah
21:25 Hareimu: I didn't say anything about pp though
21:25 Hareimu: that's another completely different topic
21:25 DragonSlayer96: i refused basically a whole mod on the platter because the mod was making the map into a pp map, lol
21:25 Hareimu: and spec just mapped some sections of his map like that because he was following the singer's voice and he wanted to spruce up his map using it effectively
21:26 Hareimu: not because it was the correct way of doing so
21:26 Hareimu: (also look at razor's gd on your mapset, he uses NCs over the downbeats too)
21:29 DragonSlayer96: that might be to keep the map consistant, idk
21:29 Hareimu: ask him, then
21:30 Hareimu: well back to the mod
21:30 DragonSlayer96: will do when i see him
21:30 Hareimu: basically if you NC and add dashes like that, all other modders will most likely also state the same thing I'm stating now
21:31 Hareimu: not to mention it can lead to DQs as well
21:31 Hareimu: the general ranking criteria says the same thing
21:32 DragonSlayer96: as far as i know, NC cant lead to DQ unless its breaking the RC (like 8 fruit stacking)
21:32 Hareimu: it can if it's misleading
21:32 DragonSlayer96: how can NC be misleading. never heard that one
21:33 Hareimu: https://puu.sh/xRPrO/a4e1196bed.png boop
21:33 Hareimu: that's directed for std and general mapping anyway, that's why the diffnaming is easy, insane, hard, normal, etc there
21:34 Hareimu: but it applied and still applies in the same way for ctb mapping too
21:35 DragonSlayer96: so basically i have to scrap how i like mapping to get stuff ranked :/
21:35 Hareimu: eh
21:35 DragonSlayer96: and make it not make sense
21:35 Hareimu: not really
21:35 Hareimu: it's just changing the new comboing and rearranging the dashes
21:35 DragonSlayer96: i thought downbeats where the red lines though
21:35 Hareimu: your mapping style would look the same
21:36 Hareimu: downbeats are the big white ticks.
21:36 Hareimu: they're big for a reason, you know :P
21:36 DragonSlayer96: i hate forgetting all this qwq
21:36 DragonSlayer96: then why does a new timing point make a downbeat?
21:37 Hareimu: because, normally, a timing point defines a new, different rhythmical section from the song
21:37 Hareimu: (and also this old editor doesn't work in another way)
21:37 Hareimu: ((and it's utter bullshit))
21:37 Hareimu: but yeah
21:38 Hareimu: say, if a song was a solid 128bpm and then the bpm changes to 200bpm, the new timing point makes a new downbeat with 200bpm
21:38 Hareimu: if you add a timing point over a red tick, it defines a new downbeat because it's told to behave like so
21:38 DragonSlayer96: that makes sense then
21:39 Hareimu: if you don't want to have a new downbeat when using a new timing point, use an inherited timing point then
21:39 DragonSlayer96: so downbeats start or end combos?
21:40 Hareimu: downbeats don't start nor end comboes
21:40 DragonSlayer96: from what you are saying, it is start
21:40 Hareimu: New comboes do
21:40 Hareimu: new comboes should be added over downbeats
21:41 DragonSlayer96: ok, i was about to get really upset then if that wasnt the case because i think every kai time i map i start on a downbeat
21:41 Hareimu: there are common exceptions, such as adding a NC over a red tick to not clutter the catcher's plate with more than 16 fruits at the same time
21:41 Hareimu: but that applies over higher difficulties, normally
21:43 Hareimu: and yes, kiai times should also start on downbeats
21:43 DragonSlayer96: i think i know what is confusing me so much on this map. for 4/4, every 4 white ticks = a downbeat, correct?
21:43 Hareimu: yes
21:43 Hareimu: for 6/4, however, every 6 white ticks = a downbeat
21:43 DragonSlayer96: so a 6/4, every 6 = a downbeat?
21:43 Hareimu: yes.
21:43 Hareimu: for x/4, every x white ticks = a downbeat
21:44 Hareimu: that's how music theory works
21:45 DragonSlayer96: if i wouldve known that when i was told to change, i wouldve done it, lol. i knew for 3/3, every 3rd one was a downbeat. i kinda forgot that the top was how many notes were in a measure
21:45 DragonSlayer96: so that was totally my fault
21:46 Hareimu: well, don't dwell on whatever it was your fault or not
21:46 Hareimu: at least now you know about it better
21:46 Hareimu: that's what matters
21:48 DragonSlayer96: okie. now it makes more sense to change the NC around a bit, but then salad and platter need an overhaul ;-;
21:48 Hareimu: wait a minute
21:48 Hareimu: salad doesn't really need that much of one
21:48 Hareimu: what it does need, though, is to make clear whether some distances between fruits are walks or dashes.
21:49 DragonSlayer96: i do tend to dash more on the end of combos, that is why i said that
21:50 Hareimu: it actually plays well
21:51 Hareimu: but platter needs one.
21:51 Hareimu: hyperdashes should be directed into strong sounds, not to the sounds next to them
21:51 Hareimu: ...and yaddayadda I think you get it already
21:53 DragonSlayer96: to me it plays better that way
21:53 DragonSlayer96: this one has a mix of the two though
21:54 Hareimu: not to mention that 1/3 hyperdashes on bpms equal or higher than 120 on a platter are unrankable
21:54 Hareimu: oh wait nvm it was 160bpm
21:54 Hareimu: my bad
21:55 DragonSlayer96: i was about to get really upset. i know i have mapped lower than 120 and its basically fullscreen jumps to get hypers for 1/2
21:56 Hareimu: well anyway
21:57 DragonSlayer96: 00:15:883 (3,4) - that is one pattern where it is dash to the strong note
21:57 DragonSlayer96: 00:17:883 (8,1) -
21:57 DragonSlayer96: another
21:57 Hareimu: it's a pretty antiflowing movement though
21:57 Hareimu: 00:15:717 (2) - I'd move this to x:448
21:58 Hareimu: antiflow means that the movement the player has to makes defies the natural flow it was once following before making such a different movement
21:58 DragonSlayer96: ok, no problem there
21:59 Hareimu: say, if 2 and 3 all go to the left into 4 and 4 is shaped as a curve that slowly curves from left to right, it wouldn't be antiflow.
21:59 DragonSlayer96: i know
21:59 DragonSlayer96: you keep on going and follow though
22:00 DragonSlayer96: anti-flow was one of those things where it was ok here and there on platters when this one was being created
22:00 DragonSlayer96: just need to take them out for better play now, which kinda sucks
22:01 Hareimu: just think about it as if you were the new platter player
22:01 Hareimu: you wouldn't like hard movements
22:01 Hareimu: because the platter shouldn't be THAT much harder than salad
22:01 Hareimu: and it shouldn't play as a rain
22:01 DragonSlayer96: new to platters i was playing things like Sey
22:02 Hareimu: sey's maps weren't particularly hard afaik?
22:02 DragonSlayer96: and i dont buff my platters up to rain difficulties, hence why i try to keep the hyper count under 10
22:02 Hareimu: in a normal 4/4 song, hyperdashes should appear every measure
22:02 Hareimu: like, every 4 beats
22:03 Hareimu: I emphasize, should, not have to.
22:03 DragonSlayer96: that is too much imo for a platter since platter introduces hypers
22:04 Hareimu: every 2 measures then?
22:05 DragonSlayer96: to me, it has to fit the song. doesnt matter the difficulty
22:05 DragonSlayer96: if there is a mellow part of a heavy metal song, i dont expect hypers in that space
22:05 Hareimu: that's correct
22:05 Hareimu: but in the heavy parts of the song, you shouldn't go all out with hypers either
22:05 Hareimu: it's still a platter diff
22:06 DragonSlayer96: exactly. for me, hypers should be the most intense parts of it
22:06 Hareimu: and that is fine
22:06 DragonSlayer96: and should use to emphasis the song
22:07 Hareimu: well back to the mod we're running in circles rn
22:07 Hareimu: xD
22:07 Hareimu: quick question
22:07 DragonSlayer96: okie
22:07 Hareimu: why is the SV so high on all diffs?
22:08 DragonSlayer96: that was because i had the bpm doubled, so in order to keep the mods that people did on the map, i cut the bpm by half and doubled SV to keep the map the same so the other modders work was not lost
22:08 DragonSlayer96: hirari is like that, but in reverse
22:09 Hareimu: oh, I see
22:09 Hareimu: still, such high bpms don't really fit the song
22:09 Hareimu: it's not that intense
22:09 Hareimu: svs*
22:09 DragonSlayer96: i had the bpm at 240 when i first timed it though x.x took about 7 or so mods before someone told me to cut it in half
22:10 DragonSlayer96: i just didnt wanna say "fuck you" to those seven modders
22:10 Hareimu: uh, lemme get something straight here
22:10 Hareimu: modders mod what they are offered at the time they were offered such thing
22:11 Hareimu: if you at a certain point make a drastic change that takes all those modders' suggestions to waste, it doesn't really matter as long as the map's general improved quality doesn't go to waste too
22:12 Hareimu: you're supposed to learn stuff from mods so that you don't make the same mistakes that lead to the modders' suggestions in the first place
22:13 DragonSlayer96: let me see something real quick on the thread
22:17 Hareimu: so? :o
22:18 DragonSlayer96: no one made a comment about it like that until now
22:18 DragonSlayer96: about the SV being too high
22:18 Hareimu: boberofdarkness did though
22:19 Hareimu: https://puu.sh/xRR48/c8603ca1a6.png
22:20 DragonSlayer96: oh, first mod, lol. that was when the song still had 240 bpm
22:23 DragonSlayer96: well, i can cut the sv in half and - hopefully - keep the start/end of sliders the same
22:23 Hareimu: if you could do that, it'd play so much better
22:23 Hareimu: and it'd really fit the song too
22:23 Hareimu: I don't feel it's as energic as to have such high speed sliders
22:24 DragonSlayer96: after i do it and upload it, can you take another look to make sure i did not overlook things? that is something i have a hard time doing when i monkey with SV/timing
22:24 Hareimu: alright then, will do
22:25 Hareimu: should I post this chatlog as it is right now?
22:25 DragonSlayer96: is there a way to save the ends where they are when i do change SV?
22:25 Hareimu: no, there is not
22:25 Hareimu: if you change SVs, the length of the sliders will naturally decrease
22:25 DragonSlayer96: yea, i will update and just say that i am still working on last comment
22:26 Hareimu: say, a 1/2 slider with 1,80x SV cannot travel the same distance as a slider with 2,00x SV.
22:26 Hareimu: it just can't because of the speed it was assigned
22:27 Hareimu: also, if I must add
22:27 Hareimu: if any modder that comes next to me tells you to remap some parts/the whole diffs, do mind their suggestion
22:27 Hareimu: firstly because it could make the diff better with your new knowledge applied
22:27 Hareimu: and secondly because it's 30 seconds long anyway lol
22:28 DragonSlayer96: okie, and i am confused. do i have to change SV for every time i have a new section?
22:28 Hareimu: uh
22:28 Hareimu: not really
22:28 Hareimu: like
22:28 Hareimu: change the slider velocity from the timing tab
22:28 Hareimu: (above the slider tick rate option)
22:29 Hareimu: and then open up the dropdown timing menu at the top of the editor window (not the black one, the one to the right of design and to the left of web)
22:29 DragonSlayer96: i know, but after the first green line, the sliders dont change in length, only the ones before the first green line
22:29 Hareimu: and click on recalculate slider lengths
22:30 Hareimu: when you do, check if all sliderends are snapped to their correct ticks
22:30 DragonSlayer96: oh, didnt do the second thing
22:31 Hareimu: if not, adjust the anchors at the end of the slider so that they're shorter/longer, depending on if the slider is snapped later than expected/earlier than expected
22:35 DragonSlayer96: .-. this is gonna take some time
22:36 DragonSlayer96: basically remap for all my sliders
22:36 DragonSlayer96: glad it is a short map
22:36 Hareimu: see? told ya
22:36 Hareimu: you can use it to practice whenever you feel that this mapset is really, really old and your style isn't the same anymore
22:36 DragonSlayer96: it played fine how it was though
22:37 Hareimu: but it'll play even better with the new slider speed
22:37 Hareimu: say, if a speedcore song had short af sliders
22:37 DragonSlayer96: it will be a boring cup, lol
22:37 Hareimu: would it be fun?
22:39 DragonSlayer96: that is what is on osu so apparantly yes
22:39 Hareimu: well lemme change the example up a bit
22:39 Hareimu: a really energic song with short sliders.
22:39 Hareimu: short, really short and slow 1/1 sliders
22:40 DragonSlayer96: to me, yea
22:40 DragonSlayer96: to others, no
22:40 Hareimu: you should map both for yourself and for others
22:41 Hareimu: maps are meant to be enjoyed by everybody
22:44 Hareimu: I'll post this on the thread now

good luck
Topic Starter
DragonSlayer96
SV has been changed. To me, the map sucks now and lost all the feeling I had put in it when I originally mapped it. Kinda don't know what to do with it, but will go forward only because of GD's on it.
Xinely
Dont give up xD
May i give a mod? /run
Topic Starter
DragonSlayer96
Just to make it all pretty here too, yea. I do not mind mods on this map.
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