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[invalid] Change OD 9 to OD 10

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +3
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o
(Revised)

The current OD 10 is virtually unplayable - I'm pretty sure there has never been a ranked nor approved map in the history of osu! that has used that setting (EDIT: effectively >_>). So why have a difficulty setting that is basically unusable? I really don't see the need of having a difficulty higher than the current OD 9, so what if the current OD 9 were changed to OD 10? This would mean the new 9 would (obviously) be a difficulty between 8 and the old 9, which would be much more commonly utilized than the current 10.

Thoughts?
Last edited by TheVileOne , edited 6 times in total.
Umandsf
34 posts
Joined December 2009
Umandsf
I say leave it. Then again, most of my play involves nothing higher than 4 so who am I to say? :roll:
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi
I don't really support this. While your idea is pretty reasonable, i don't think a new OD is needed. The reason OD 9 isn't used often is because people aren't used to it and therefor they can't play it very well. But when you get used to it, you can pretty much read and play it fine, there is nothing wrong with its timing window :/

also i believe the last song in ouendan had OD 10 ^^
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

Gabi wrote:

I don't really support this. While your idea is pretty reasonable, i don't think a new OD is needed. The reason OD 9 isn't used often is because people aren't used to it and therefor they can't play it very well. But when you get used to it, you can pretty much read and play it fine, there is nothing wrong with its timing window :/
Yeah I agree OD 9 can be playable, which is why I think it should still be available as an option (it would just go under 10 instead of 9). The main problem I see is that with the other difficulty settings the highest level is still relatively playable, unlike OD 10. I really can't see any situation where the current OD 9 wouldn't be fast enough for a map, which is why I think it should be the top difficulty. This would also allow a setting in-between the current OD 8 and 9, which I know would work well in a lot of cases.
Mismagius
9,263 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

0_o wrote:

An overall difficulty of 9 works VERY rarely, and even when it does the hit-window is very small and it's very difficult to S. OD 10 is virtually unplayable - I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a ranked map using that setting. So why have a difficulty setting that is basically unusable?
OD9: viewtopic.php?t=27436


I don't REALLY support this, but I agree that OD10 is fucking high for a normal beatmap.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
I use OD9 and OD10. I think they fit well and shouldn't be changed, and new OD's shouldn't be introduced.

OD9 works more often than you think. See Noisia - Groundhog (Beat Juggle) [DJ LaRTo]. I can play this on OD10 and it's comfortable with OD9.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

strager wrote:

I use OD9 and OD10. I think they fit well and shouldn't be changed, and new OD's shouldn't be introduced.

OD9 works more often than you think. See Noisia - Groundhog (Beat Juggle) [DJ LaRTo]. I can play this on OD10 and it's comfortable with OD9.
The focus of this request is more on OD 10 than OD 9. OD 9 definitely CAN work well (and it does with the examples given), I just think that any difficulty higher than that is unnecessary. Updated the OP/topic title to clarify.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

0_o wrote:

The focus of this request is more on OD 10 than OD 9. OD 9 definitely CAN work well (and it does with the examples given), I just think that any difficulty higher than that is unnecessary. Updated the OP/topic title to clarify.
Okay.

I still don't see the problem, though. If it doesn't fit, don't use it. If it does fit (and it rarely does), don't use it. Some players want to make fun maps for themselves (myself included) which uses OD10.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

strager wrote:

I still don't see the problem, though. If it doesn't fit, don't use it. If it does fit (and it rarely does), don't use it. Some players want to make fun maps for themselves (myself included) which uses OD10.
Sure, but what would be more beneficial: an obscenely high overall difficulty that would really only be used for "fun maps people make for themselves", or another usable difficulty in between 8 and 9? 8 is currently a generally accepted OD that works in most Insanes, while 9 is considered fairly extreme. I think a midpoint between these would be very useful. Also you could probably manually edit the .osu to make a harder OD for your "fun" maps.

And again, an HP drain of 10 as well as a Circle size of 10 are both perfectly playable (though difficult), so I don't see why an OD of 10 shouldn't either.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
I completely agree with this request. The current jump from OD 8 to 9 is really rough, so a midpoint would be better than having an even-crazier 10 atm.
Starrodkirby86
osu! Alumni
3,739 posts
Here since the beginning
Starrodkirby86
For those not so familiar with OD10, try playing this map on [ZOMGWTF]:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/1137
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Card N'FoRcE
I thought about a Overall "8.5" too, some time ago.
I think it could be quite nice, but how are you going to put that between the other Overalls?
I don't know, I'm really unsure about this.

About removing OD 10, please no. Actually, i still don't understand why Circle Size 1,2,8,9 got removed too (maybe i missed the reason).

I'd like more "in-between" Circle Sizes, instead, there's not plenty of choice there now.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Split approach rate from hit window.
Cap hit window to the 2-8 range.
Keep the approach rate range as it is.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

I thought about a Overall "8.5" too, some time ago.
I think it could be quite nice, but how are you going to put that between the other Overalls?
Like the OP says, OD 9 would be changed to OD 10 and 8.5 would be the new OD 9

MetalMario201 wrote:

Split approach rate from hit window.
Cap hit window to the 2-8 range.
Keep the approach rate range as it is.
I suppose this could work as well, though I'm fairly neutral on the idea personally.

EDIT: oh look, post #1500
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Card N'FoRcE

0_o wrote:

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

I thought about a Overall "8.5" too, some time ago.
I think it could be quite nice, but how are you going to put that between the other Overalls?
Like the OP says, OD 9 would be changed to OD 10 and 8.5 would be the new OD 9
That would break old OD9 maps (and hardrocked OD9 maps), wouldn't it?
(Unless you suggest to use it for new maps, that's a different story :P )

To sum my opinion up: i'd like a OD"8.5", but i really don't know how it should be implemented and i think it's low priority anyway.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

That would break old OD9 maps (and hardrocked OD9 maps), wouldn't it?
(Unless you suggest to use it for new maps, that's a different story :P )
Well seeing as there are only a handful of maps that use OD 9 right now, there could be some workaround to updating them individually (though this would really be peppy's call)
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

0_o wrote:

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

That would break old OD9 maps (and hardrocked OD9 maps), wouldn't it?
(Unless you suggest to use it for new maps, that's a different story :P )
Well seeing as there are only a handful of maps that use OD 9 right now, there could be some workaround to updating them individually (though this would really be peppy's call)
osz2 osz2 osz2

x3?
Mismagius
9,263 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

0_o wrote:

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

That would break old OD9 maps (and hardrocked OD9 maps), wouldn't it?
(Unless you suggest to use it for new maps, that's a different story :P )
Well seeing as there are only a handful of maps that use OD 9 right now, there could be some workaround to updating them individually (though this would really be peppy's call)
Hello, i have a #2 bubbled OD9 map. What about it?
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

Blue Dragon wrote:

Hello, i have a #2 bubbled OD9 map. What about it?
..WHAT about it? If this were implemented it would be updated like the rest of them.

Also YES I forgot about osz2 :D That would probably make things simpler.
Mismagius
9,263 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

0_o wrote:

Blue Dragon wrote:

Hello, i have a #2 bubbled OD9 map. What about it?
..WHAT about it? If this were implemented it would be updated like the rest of them.
...Bubbles would be popped?

(i really trolled like 5 times to get a single bubble at that map and i don't think it will be easy to get it again -.-')
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

Blue Dragon wrote:

...Bubbles would be popped?

(i really trolled like 5 times to get a single bubble at that map and i don't think it will be easy to get it again -.-')
Err yeah, the development of osu! is slightly more important than a popped bubble >_> (also a simple PM is all you would need to get the bubble back)
It wouldn't matter anyway, the change from OD 9->10 would be automatic (I would think)
Mismagius
9,263 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

0_o wrote:

Blue Dragon wrote:

...Bubbles would be popped?

(i really trolled like 5 times to get a single bubble at that map and i don't think it will be easy to get it again -.-')
Err yeah, the development of osu! is slightly more important than a popped bubble >_> (also a simple PM is all you would need to get the bubble back)
It wouldn't matter anyway, the change from OD 9->10 would be automatic (I would think)
Yeah, whatever. "I DONMT ACEPT MODING RO BUBLE PEMS OR UL BE BANED FROM MI LIS"
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
Let's not go off-topic.

I believe that with osz2, updates like this could be automatic and would affect neither ranked nor pending maps.
Starrodkirby86
osu! Alumni
3,739 posts
Here since the beginning
Starrodkirby86
Uh, why can't 10 be only available via the .osu (Like how Stack Leniency can be edited to 0) while 8.5 is a new and acceptable value? That way nothing will technically be broken or in need of updates...

Of course, despite it being editable only through the .osu, that doesn't mean it's rankable or whatever.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru
Nothing would be broken if MM's suggestion was used.

All that would happen is that maps with OD9 or 10 would still have them as long as you don't dink around with the settings in Edit mode.

I mean, when they got rid of circle size 0, Hirari's Beginner didn't break. So no, nothing would break or have to be updated.

I support this BTW.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I dont even wanna imagine OD10 with HR+DT but if your playing at such high OD why would u be using HR and DT anyways :D i really dont see the problem in barring an OD from the editor that's barely used, while you can still edit the .osu to get higher ODs for your own liking anyways. +1 (Note: What about also barring some hit circle sizes? i heard that no one even uses small hit circles anymore)
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
Actually HR won't have any effect in terms of OD on 10 OD maps (I think. Well that's how I see it anyway)
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Zekira wrote:

Actually HR won't have any effect in terms of OD on 10 OD maps (I think. Well that's how I see it anyway)
Yeah; from what I remember, OD10 is the upper limit. OD9+HR leads to OD10, and OD10+HR leaves it at OD10.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o
bumping
Torran
724 posts
Joined November 2008
Torran
And while we're at it, let's also change CS 4 to CS 5!
aRiskOfRain
osu! Alumni
1,367 posts
Joined June 2009
aRiskOfRain

soradg123 wrote:

And while we're at it, let's also change CS 4 to CS 5!
Do that.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish

DiamondCrash wrote:

soradg123 wrote:

And while we're at it, let's also change CS 4 to CS 5!
Do that.
Yes do that.

Maybe even allow the circle size above the current biggest, though that's probably pushing it.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
So... now that OD and AR are split up... this should be about getting rid of AR 10. ;)

(And I agree about getting rid of the smallest circle size as well btw)
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
I play OD10 (now AR10; wtf is that shit? I could rant on that all day).

Go away.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,847 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
AR10 is perfectly playable. The same could be said about smallest circle sizes. Learn to play.
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Card N'FoRcE

KRZY wrote:

AR10 is perfectly playable. The same could be said about smallest circle sizes. Learn to play.
^ This, this and this (even though i can't play AR10, but it was the same for AR9 one year ago, sooooooooo....).

You know smallest and biggest circle sizes aren't available from the editor anymore, right?

You can force them manually, but i still didn't understand why they were "half-removed", actually.
Oh, same goes for Stack leniency, the lowest you can set from the editor is 0.2, not 0.

Imho removing things seems like a totally useless thing to do in these cases (mostly talking about AR10 now, sice i see people saying to remove it).
What's the problem with them staying in the editor?
A sucky map is sucky not only because of difficulty settings (agony insane, anyone? That one is so awesome because of small circles).


tl;dr: no support for removing whatever from difficulty settings, way too many things were removed already.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

strager wrote:

I play OD10 (now AR10; wtf is that shit? I could rant on that all day).

Go away.
Other way around actually. It's not AR which is raising concerns, but OD. This thread was one of my motivators for making the change.

With this change, I see no reason to hide the setting, since now mappers have already been deprived of the excuse of "I want fast circles" for setting the OD too high. OD10 has its corner cases of fair use, as CNF has brought up.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

You know smallest and biggest circle sizes aren't available from the editor anymore, right?

You can force them manually, but i still didn't understand why they were "half-removed", actually.
Oh, same goes for Stack leniency, the lowest you can set from the editor is 0.2, not 0.

Imho removing things seems like a totally useless thing to do in these cases (mostly talking about AR10 now, sice i see people saying to remove it).
What's the problem with them staying in the editor?
A sucky map is sucky not only because of difficulty settings (agony insane, anyone? That one is so awesome because of small circles).


tl;dr: no support for removing whatever from difficulty settings, way too many things were removed already.
BAT's can't do their jobs so peppy "fixes" the game so it's easier for them.

amirite? ;P

Luckily, some people can get around such limitations for the better.

MetalMario201 wrote:

strager wrote:

I play OD10 (now AR10; wtf is that shit? I could rant on that all day).

Go away.
Other way around actually. It's not AR which is raising concerns, but OD. This thread was one of my motivators for making the change.

With this change, I see no reason to hide the setting, since now mappers have already been deprived of the excuse of "I want fast circles" for setting the OD too high. OD10 has its corner cases of fair use, as CNF has brought up.
I can play "new" OD10 as well. If you have problems with your accuracy being lowered ... that's your problem. Everyone's accuracy is affected anyway.

I'm fine with OD and AR being split. I'm not fine with the new names, and I'm not fine with the suggestion of this thread.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

strager wrote:

BAT's can't do their jobs so peppy "fixes" the game so it's easier for them.

amirite? ;P

Luckily, some people can get around such limitations for the better.
Basically. The politics are complicated. Also, you know peppy. He considers the availability of any "broken" setting as a bug.
And nice circle size 2 :D

strager wrote:

I can play "new" OD10 as well. If you have problems with your accuracy being lowered ... that's your problem. Everyone's accuracy is affected anyway.

I'm fine with OD and AR being split. I'm not fine with the new names, and I'm not fine with the suggestion of this thread.
If you want to suggest a better name, by all means.

OD10 is likely to stay for the corner cases discussed by CNF and others. I might also look at putting back circle size 2 if peppy agrees.
peppy
19,312 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy

MetalMario201 wrote:

Basically. The politics are complicated. Also, you know peppy. He considers the availability of any "broken" setting as a bug.
The reason for removing them from editor is to stop every guy and his dog making totally unplayable maps by limiting them to sane boundaries. I'm not sure where the broken/bug thing comes into play here and don't really follow what you are saying, but I don't see the need to cahnge the boundaries to be more permissive.

Also don't forget that "perfectly playable" for some is "impossible" for others. I would only consider removing OD10 an option if it made maps highly unplayable to the majority (over 30% i guess?) of players.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

peppy wrote:

Also don't forget that "perfectly playable" for some is "impossible" for others. I would only consider removing OD10 an option if it made maps highly unplayable to the majority (over 30% i guess?) of players.
?

I'm pretty sure over 30% of players can't play some of the insane maps out there. Should we ban "too hard" maps...?

You're not making much sense.
peppy
19,312 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Okay, let me rephrase then since it seems I wasn't clear enough: 30% of players that successfully play ranked maps classified as insane.
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
IOW, peppy doesn't want to dumb osu! down(?)
Torran
724 posts
Joined November 2008
Torran
I'm taking back any support of this and its related topics.

-1 Support
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
For the record, circle size 2 is an easier setting. Circle size 8+ are pretty retarted so I would not support any restoration of them.

OD10 is very borderline--it feels like the game is spamming 100s when you are using perfect timing. It's not my style to remove options, so I'd just go with whatever peppy says.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,847 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY

peppy wrote:

Also don't forget that "perfectly playable" for some is "impossible" for others.
I must admit I was not giving the matter much thought when I was saying that earlier, thanks for pointing that out peppy. However, I am still of the opinion that if one single map can make good use of OD10/AR10/smallest circle size, it should be there.
Natteke
6,538 posts
Joined August 2009
Natteke
Sometimes when I map, I use AR10 to get rid of approach circles. Same way with AR1 to be able to see the whole pattern
qwr
111 posts
Joined August 2013
qwr
Change OD 10 to OD 11 please
Natsume-
8 posts
Joined January 2015
Natsume-
I need OD 11 :)
Flanster
5,938 posts
Joined August 2010
Flanster
Please don't necropost in feature requests that have been marked as invalid for years.
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