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osu! Taiko World Cup 2015 - Discussion Thread

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Topic Starter
Loctav

Wiki | Livestream


Welcome to the osu! Taiko World Cup 2015 Discussion Thread.
Here you can discuss everything related to the biggest worldwide osu! Taiko tournament.
OnosakiHito
Good luck to all the participants of the TWC 2015! Let's have an exciting tournament.
Like in TWC #1, #2 and #3, I made this year another banner. Hope you guys like it.



Information

Group Stage Mappool conclusion
RO16 Mappool conclusion

TWC Mapper Ranking
Thelma
probability of Indonesian players will sign up: <50%

so i don't give a shit for this

good luck for people who join this tournament.
Topic Starter
Loctav

Thelma wrote:

probability of Indonesian players will sign up: <50%

so i don't give a shit for this

good luck for people who join this tournament.

Sure? Indonesia is well known for registering in every World Cup with at least 15 teams :/
Nashmun
Hype hype :D

Hum, this new registration system seems to be good to allow more countries to participate because we'll actually see which player from which country is willing to participate instead of people directly saying "We can't join" . But this is also a weird idea considering it won't allow intra-country discusion between the players in order to build a team. Of course we can still do that ingame, or in our subforum, but it won't prevent someone to register without consulting them.

Last point that isn't very clear to me is this part : "Among equally strong players, the Tournament Management may let the gamble decide." So basically, if two players within the same level range register, you could eventually pick randomly between them ? So if we actually think player A would be a better addition than player B to our team even if both of them want to compete there is a chance that player B get to play even if we collectivelly wanted player A to ?

Thanks in advance for the clarifications
Backfire
-snip-

Be more clear with your rules, I understand it's new, but try to clean up the new additions so that we can fully understand, thanks.
Topic Starter
Loctav
"## Teams will be formed with the help of local representatives among a list of valid registrations."

Applied that to the wiki page. Keep in mind that the tournament management will surely seek for help forming the teams after finding a valid and responsible person among all registered players per country to assist founding the actual team.
VirtualMuffin
I've only just recovered from the amazing owc we just had :P !

I hope that the staff have a nicer tournament organisation wise this time :) !
FlyingKiwi
Why can't you stream all the matches in a different time for the group stages? and could you stream all the matches in multiple channels this time?
Thelma

Loctav wrote:

Sure? Indonesia is well known for registering in every World Cup with at least 15 teams :/
lol. Taiko is not popular as other mode in Indonesia

so, yeah

all hail France
LunaticP
Sign-up is done individually

Tournament Management will found teams

so the TM can actually pick players

wow so exciting

If you don't want some players to get in just ask 100 player sign-up then you can minimize his/her chance to get in
abrian
Well, nicely done..
Good luck to all the contestants lol
Or in other words, have fun picking the teams tournament manager.
Nwolf
You didn't get it


The Tournament Management will not enforce specific teams. As it currently stands (as explained yesterday in #taiko) it will more than likely be that a trustworthy player that registered gets to be captain and get a list of people that are able to play in the tournament and then they can discuss with them and pick a team. So you ARE able to play "in your team" if you want. Loctav stated that he does not want the management to pick teams for players
Korakov
My choke meter will be increased here, so yeah, NOPE.

Good luck for the tourney!

i've got cringe stuff and obviously i won't tell you :^)
XK2238

Thelma wrote:

Loctav wrote:

Sure? Indonesia is well known for registering in every World Cup with at least 15 teams :/
lol. Taiko is not popular as other mode in Indonesia
this
a lot of our Taiko players are busy IRL and another (bigger) lot of them have quitted/are inactive too lolz

also it's kinda new to me that FL and 2+ mods have been allowed. I wonder how it will fare in the matches... better, I'd say. :U

Anyways good luck to all the participants o/
Luna
Oh god, please ban HDHR and FL. Nothing good comes from allowing them.
There's pretty much two possible outcomes:
1. Someone uses dual screen for a free win. Everyone gets mad. Nobody gets punished because DS is freaking unprovable. Heck, someone could just print out the patterns on a sheet of paper and, due to the linear nature of Taiko, play off of that. Literally impossible to detect.
2. Someone actually memorizes an entire map perfectly and wins it for his team. People will get mad. Accusations get thrown around. It's pretty damn hard to prove your innocence, even with liveplay videos, since it's so easy to hide some kind of memory assist in a dead angle of the camera. Even if the liveplay convinces people that this player is capable of achieving such scores - there's nothing to say he didn't DS during the match due to pressure to perform/for consistency. People will still doubt.
Stuff like that ruins the competition pretty much. It would be a different matter if DS were actually detectable, but you all know fully well that it isn't.

Okay, I lied, there's three possible outcomes. The third - and most likely one - is that nobody even touches those mods. But if that's what you are going for, why even allow them in the first place?
senkai
wouldnt the FL/HDHR mod let a player who has known the map for a long time have the advantage?

example,
two equally skilled players play a map, wherein
1. player 1 has known the song for a long time, and have already tried to do FL, or HDHR on it, while on the other hand,
2. player 2 have never tried doing FL/HDHR on it, but had excellent records on the said map.
Clearly player 1 would just keep on practicing on it to improve his memory on the song, while player 2 will need to memorize the whole map from scratch. :?
MYRKUL
Don't ask me why, but my forecast is cancellation due to lack of players/teams
Nwolf
no
Nashmun

MYRKUL wrote:

Don't ask me why, but my forecast is cancellation due to lack of players/teams
Sure, that's probably why Loctav is flooded by registration PM since the news came out ;)
MYRKUL
Well, much better indeed
Yuzeyun
Please no HRHD or FL+ in the TWC, it's unfair...
Luna explained it well : either with FL people will just shamelessly print out the damn score and play off it, or for HRHD there will be legit players, but some others will be put at disadvantage because of their resolution.

Luna wrote:

Okay, I lied, there's three possible outcomes. The third - and most likely one - is that nobody even touches those mods. But if that's what you are going for, why even allow them in the first place?
That outcome will not happen just so you know.
Topic Starter
Loctav
Oh, I forgot to remove that when transferring the ruleset from OWC to TWC. There won't be FL and HDHR.
Jerry
Well that's a relief lolol
mliencheng
Frankly, not letting the country itself choose their own team is really a crap idea.

This tournament is getting worse every year.
Kuro

mliencheng wrote:

Frankly, not letting the country itself choose their own team is really a crap idea.

This tournament is getting worse every year.
Just going to quote this.....

Nwolf wrote:

You didn't get it


The Tournament Management will not enforce specific teams. As it currently stands (as explained yesterday in #taiko) it will more than likely be that a trustworthy player that registered gets to be captain and get a list of people that are able to play in the tournament and then they can discuss with them and pick a team. So you ARE able to play "in your team" if you want. Loctav stated that he does not want the management to pick teams for players
mliencheng
This should be written clearly in the rules, not in #taiko or elsewhere , to prevent any misinterpretation of the rules.

Participants should get accurate and correct informations at first sight. Don't pretend to be so "official", since this game itself is already not official.
LZD

Kuro wrote:

mliencheng wrote:

Frankly, not letting the country itself choose their own team is really a crap idea.

This tournament is getting worse every year.
Just going to quote this.....

Nwolf wrote:

You didn't get it


The Tournament Management will not enforce specific teams. As it currently stands (as explained yesterday in #taiko) it will more than likely be that a trustworthy player that registered gets to be captain and get a list of people that are able to play in the tournament and then they can discuss with them and pick a team. So you ARE able to play "in your team" if you want. Loctav stated that he does not want the management to pick teams for players

then what did i send to Loctav? ._. I still dont get it
Kuro
I'm assuming you sent a registration?


Anyway, these numbers will be used to determine a number of factors. Such as, getting an accurate count of how many people are willing to join and how many teams can be formed out of that pool of people on a per country basis. As well as deciding whether or not this tournament will be 3v3 or 4v4 and the limit on how many players can be on each team.

but... this is all just a guess so don't take my word for it...
LZD
I hope they will clarify it, because i sent a registration, individual like wiki says.
Nwolf
you send a registration

a local representative (that excludes the tournament management), aka somebody trustworthy from your own country that registered too and most likely ended up being a captain in a previous TWC or the current TWC is able to talk with people that registered, got accepted and form a team with them.
Dainesl
And it would be logical to assume that if nobody from x country was a captain in previous TWCs then the trustworthiness aspect would come into play, as well as the whole communication aspect (since that is obviously crucial in terms of organisation).
Kuro
If TWC LMS is included then I've been a captain twice.... =w=)b
wait... does TWC LMS even count?

Oh well, doesn't really matter too much to me.. I probably can't join anyway due to.... uhhh.... geographical location... ;_;

and even if I did, it would be very hard to play... :P
LunaticP

Nwolf wrote:

you send a registration

a local representative (that excludes the tournament management), aka somebody trustworthy from your own country that registered too and most likely ended up being a captain in a previous TWC or the current TWC is able to talk with people that registered, got accepted and form a team with them.

who judge that " somebody trustworthy "

and " most likely " doesn't sound correct at all

You are now writing a rule and you include some MAY BE inside?

Then I can write a rule -
1. you may be banned because you send wrong mail
2. you may be excluded from the match because I don't like you

You have to state clearly, WHO is forming the team, TM or a selected captain?

Or else, if I don't want player A to join the match, I can ask player B to register and state he is " somebody trustworthy " , and he can kick player A away from the team.
LZD

Nwolf wrote:

you send a registration

a local representative (that excludes the tournament management), aka somebody trustworthy from your own country that registered too and most likely ended up being a captain in a previous TWC or the current TWC is able to talk with people that registered, got accepted and form a team with them.
i prefer someone from tournament management to explain it
mliencheng

LZD wrote:

Nwolf wrote:

you send a registration

a local representative (that excludes the tournament management), aka somebody trustworthy from your own country that registered too and most likely ended up being a captain in a previous TWC or the current TWC is able to talk with people that registered, got accepted and form a team with them.
i prefer someone from tournament management to explain it
Exactly, we need a formal explanation from the TM
abrian
It's nice to see you're trying something different from the previous years,
but please explain all the rule-set more clearly instead of leading to all these misconception.
Clarify your point from the TM not other players..
lolcubes
Long post inc, bear with me. ╭( ・ㅂ・)و

SPOILER

I think all this needs better explaining. Some things are pretty clear, but some aren't, and some are completely redundant.
Just bear with me, not bashing or criticizing, just trying to provide some valid arguments and hopefully bring some changes, making the front wiki page more clear/easier to understand.

For example:
  1. Sign-ups are individual now. Tournament management will compile teams manually. This is to figure out if TWC will either be held in a 3v3 or 4v4 format. For more information, please read the Tournament Registration Regulations.
    This is redundant, it would be easier to say that the registration process has been changed, and maybe a comment about it (not really necessary, because you already have a link with full information in the post.). No real info about this is given so the person has to click the followup link anyway.

    Example:
    A new/different registration process (per person instead of per team). More info here: <link>
  2. Sign-ups run via forum PM only, now.
    This entire note can get removed. You are already receiving this info from the link located in the previous note.
  3. We have changed over to a double elimination bracket after group stage. Therefore, the tournament runs for a full week longer. Check the Stage Instructions for more details.
    Wording can be better. "We have changed over to a" isn't necessary, it's under "What has been changed?" section, so that's a given. The length of the tournament is difficult for an average person to understand, and having X + 7 days is still difficult. Should probably get changed.

    Example:
    A new tournament format (double elimination system added). More info here: <link>
    Since no real info is being given here, just a note, a simple note might do better since the person who is interested in this will have to click the link anyway.
    The length of the tournament should be specified in the section that link goes to, and there you could say it's lasting a full week longer, compared to the previous tournament.
  4. We have adjusted the mappool size to be smaller and more consistent across all stages.
    "We have adjusted the" is unnecessary. Just simple wording is best here:

    Map pool size is now smaller and more consistent across all stages.
    Although I have to comment on "consistent" here, what does that mean exactly? It's a bit unclear. Unless you need a large space to provide info here (such as making a link which leads to it), you could just shortly comment on what does that mean exactly.
  5. We have implemented a new ‘veto’ rule, replacing the previous beatmap picking restrictions.
    Wording again. Also what does "previous beatmap picking restrictions" mean?

    A new 'veto' system, where a team is able to ban a map from being played from the map pool.
    ^ Assuming that's what you mean by veto, cause I can't think of anything else. You should still comment on what are previous beatmap picking restrictions if you want to talk about it.
  6. The limitations of mod-specific brackets have been removed. You can pick freely from any bracket now.
    I'd go away from "You can pick freely from any bracket now" and replace it with a more clear comment. While you are able to pick from any bracket (even tiebreak?), does that mean you can also use any mod combinations? That needs some clarity in my opinion.
    Making a person read wiki for the previous twc is bad, you want to give clear info, not a bloated library.

SPOILER


A lot of redundancy here, and very little valid information. You can even see it in the discussion thread. You should probably write a small intro here, for example:

The registration system has been changed, so you no longer have to form teams by yourself. To register you have to:
An then come the notes.

  1. Do not found teams in advance! Register individually, if you wish to join this competition
    Just remove this. If you write a small intro with a clear procedure, you really don't have to have this note. If you want to write up on what not to do, you could think of a million other reasons, right?
  2. Teams will be formed with the help of local representatives among a list of valid registrations.
    And now we come to the main problem. No info at all, except how it should end. You really need to be specific here (hell even I don't know what does this mean).

    But to make this better, let's just ask a few questions which might help here:
    1. Who is a local representative, and how does a person become one?
    2. What makes a registration valid?
    3. How does that affect other people who are not local representatives?
    4. Will everybody registered have a chance to play, or is the amount of people limited? If it's limited, by which criteria does one discard other people? ( I would assume you really need a limit, because if you take countries like Japan, China or USA (or any other bigger country), you could get 50+ players.)
    I think a linked section would be best here, just keeping simple notes in the title with a link pointing to all this info.
  3. If your registration was successful, you will be notified. This may take a while. The tournament management checks every registered user for their gameplay abilties and compiles teams manually based on that.
    How does one objectively check for gameplay ability (besides ranking which really isn't that accurate)?
    Why would one even need to check that?
    Compiling teams based on on something that cannot be checked objectively (well, you can be really close to, but for the sake of discussion let's assume you can't be objective here)? Also, how? What does "based on" mean here?
    Also, why is this done by tournament management and not a local representative?

    Would make more sense for this to be done by a local representative, after all he should know what he wants inside his team. Excluding a person can only damage the potential choices and because the staff is doing this, time is wasted. Unless, there is something else here going on which isn't being said, which would require tournament management to step in?

Feel free to add more info or even ask more questions, I think it will be easier to form them after considering the above.

Also, have fun in the tournament!
LZD
You listed all my questions, cubes. I couldnt explain it better :D thanks

Now waiting for some clarifications
Topic Starter
Loctav

lolcubes wrote:

Long post inc, bear with me. ╭( ・ㅂ・)و

SPOILER

I think all this needs better explaining. Some things are pretty clear, but some aren't, and some are completely redundant.
Just bear with me, not bashing or criticizing, just trying to provide some valid arguments and hopefully bring some changes, making the front wiki page more clear/easier to understand.

For example:
  1. Sign-ups are individual now. Tournament management will compile teams manually. This is to figure out if TWC will either be held in a 3v3 or 4v4 format. For more information, please read the Tournament Registration Regulations.
    This is redundant, it would be easier to say that the registration process has been changed, and maybe a comment about it (not really necessary, because you already have a link with full information in the post.). No real info about this is given so the person has to click the followup link anyway.

    Example:
    A new/different registration process (per person instead of per team). More info here: <link>
    Redundancy isn't per se bad. It ensures that everyone is seeing it - as out of experience, many people do not read carefully and may miss it.
  2. Sign-ups run via forum PM only, now.
    This entire note can get removed. You are already receiving this info from the link located in the previous note.

    same here. You have to keep in mind how many people are registering and that I want to avoid any question if possible. You may see this as "given and clear", but it is not for many.
  3. We have changed over to a double elimination bracket after group stage. Therefore, the tournament runs for a full week longer. Check the Stage Instructions for more details.
    Wording can be better. "We have changed over to a" isn't necessary, it's under "What has been changed?" section, so that's a given. The length of the tournament is difficult for an average person to understand, and having X + 7 days is still difficult. Should probably get changed.

    Example:
    A new tournament format (double elimination system added). More info here: <link>
    Since no real info is being given here, just a note, a simple note might do better since the person who is interested in this will have to click the link anyway.
    The length of the tournament should be specified in the section that link goes to, and there you could say it's lasting a full week longer, compared to the previous tournament.

    This has been proofread and taken over from the OWC news post. Most stuff here clarifies as tournament engages. The tournament schedule is listed above. This note has only been made to ensure that people realize that there are two weeks for the finals.
  4. We have adjusted the mappool size to be smaller and more consistent across all stages.
    "We have adjusted the" is unnecessary. Just simple wording is best here:

    Map pool size is now smaller and more consistent across all stages.
    Although I have to comment on "consistent" here, what does that mean exactly? It's a bit unclear. Unless you need a large space to provide info here (such as making a link which leads to it), you could just shortly comment on what does that mean exactly.

    I consider this as nitpicking on wordings. It is not unclear, if you played the previous TWC and read the new ruleset, realizing that all mappools have the exact same size everywhere.
  5. We have implemented a new ‘veto’ rule, replacing the previous beatmap picking restrictions.
    Wording again. Also what does "previous beatmap picking restrictions" mean?

    A new 'veto' system, where a team is able to ban a map from being played from the map pool.
    ^ Assuming that's what you mean by veto, cause I can't think of anything else. You should still comment on what are previous beatmap picking restrictions if you want to talk about it.

    If you played on previous TWC, you will know what it means. There were picking restrictions on the HD/HR/DT/FM bracket, which are replaced by this veto rule. The veto rule is also explained in the rules. As in the OWC, most people understood this notification on instant.
  6. The limitations of mod-specific brackets have been removed. You can pick freely from any bracket now.
    I'd go away from "You can pick freely from any bracket now" and replace it with a more clear comment. While you are able to pick from any bracket (even tiebreak?), does that mean you can also use any mod combinations? That needs some clarity in my opinion.
    Making a person read wiki for the previous twc is bad, you want to give clear info, not a bloated library.

    another case of "if you played on the TWC before". Reading the rules or "contract" for something you signing up is the basic requirements of registering here. On the one hand, you complain about redundancy, but on the other hand I shall explain a complex ruleset again in the news post. This is just a changelog. You always have to read the entire ruleset. Everything is clearly explained here. Any question or "left out information" can be found out there and do not need to be clarified by me or anyone, in 99% of the cases.

SPOILER


A lot of redundancy here, and very little valid information. You can even see it in the discussion thread. You should probably write a small intro here, for example:

The registration system has been changed, so you no longer have to form teams by yourself. To register you have to:
An then come the notes.

  1. Do not found teams in advance! Register individually, if you wish to join this competition
    Just remove this. If you write a small intro with a clear procedure, you really don't have to have this note. If you want to write up on what not to do, you could think of a million other reasons, right?

    This is to avoid that only 8 people of a country register individually and no one else dares to. We have to certainly wipe out like 2 or 3 people per team due to security issues, so everyone shal signing up without discussing possible team setups in advance, because it doesn't work out in most cases anyways.
  2. Teams will be formed with the help of local representatives among a list of valid registrations.
    And now we come to the main problem. No info at all, except how it should end. You really need to be specific here (hell even I don't know what does this mean).

    I do not need to be specific here. This process can not be made clear, because there are a lot of interna running. The tournament management picks a local representative (captain) from the registrees that passed our checks and form a team along with them. That's like the old team forming process, just that we precheck the entire "Possible candidate list" beforehand. This is MOSTLY to also avoid wasting everyone's time to form teams where the majority of the members will be rejected due to ToS violations. We do not want to expose the names of rejected players anymore. Therefore we let people sign up individually, check by gameplay performance (as in: if they are not rank #100000 in taiko and can barely pass a Muzukashii), check by security and then form the team together with the representative. You are too impatient. You could simply trust the tournament management and wait how it works out.

    But to make this better, let's just ask a few questions which might help here:
    1. Who is a local representative, and how does a person become one? he's decided by the tournament management. We are deciding this on account history, activity, reliability and other factors, that are not objective, but yet valid. Not everything in the world needs to be objective. You have to live with the fact that we are declaring a temp captain from the list of possible candidates for the TWC to form the team with him. This is not better than the old forming procedures of teams, but also not worse. At least this also avoids certain people to always be the captain and kicking out people they don't like personally (happened on OWC and CWC) and just want to bully said candidates. This new picking procedure may let people be captain and pick a team. Give them a chance.
    2. What makes a registration valid? see above. valid registrations are registrations that are containing the time zone, having sufficient gameplay experience and have not violated the osu! terms of services you all agreed on when registering to osu!
    3. How does that affect other people who are not local representatives? if the registration is not valid, they don't get on the premade list where the representative can pick from. The representative has to pass this checks, too.
    4. Will everybody registered have a chance to play, or is the amount of people limited? If it's limited, by which criteria does one discard other people? ( I would assume you really need a limit, because if you take countries like Japan, China or USA (or any other bigger country), you could get 50+ players.) everyone who is a valid registree has a chance to play (see above)
    I think a linked section would be best here, just keeping simple notes in the title with a link pointing to all this info.
  3. If your registration was successful, you will be notified. This may take a while. The tournament management checks every registered user for their gameplay abilties and compiles teams manually based on that.
    How does one objectively check for gameplay ability (besides ranking which really isn't that accurate)? you are taking this too sharp. We are only checking if you are not an absolute loser.
    Why would one even need to check that? why playing TWC if you can not even play a Kantan.
    Compiling teams based on on something that cannot be checked objectively (well, you can be really close to, but for the sake of discussion let's assume you can't be objective here)? Also, how? What does "based on" mean here? objectivity isn't needed. Intersubjectivity is the key word. I know what I am doing. I know how the mappools look like. I have experience and I know my job here. I do notneed to apply some objective but unnatural formula on people and their performance. Just trust me.
    Also, why is this done by tournament management and not a local representative? because the local representative does not know the mappools and the minimum requirements we are expecting to join this tournament.

    Would make more sense for this to be done by a local representative, after all he should know what he wants inside his team. Excluding a person can only damage the potential choices and because the staff is doing this, time is wasted. Unless, there is something else here going on which isn't being said, which would require tournament management to step in?
I hope I answered everything sufficiently. Keep in mind that many stuff is kept vague either because it is too confusing to explain properly (and would bloat the ruleset needlessly) or because it would violate the privacy of single registrees. We can not give full transparency, because there are many things ongoing on the background. If you are expecting me to fraud you all, you really are thinking I live out my personal grunge here, which isn't the case. We have formal requirements of how the tournament is supposed to look like. I want this tournament to be successful and happening as intended. I have no intentions to mob out people. You can trust me blindly, hence I do not even know 98% of the people registering. How shall I be biased here?
LunaticP
Looks like the whole problem is asking people to trust the TM

anyway

How about adding this term in " The player having the highest rank in the list will be asked to be the team leader "

So nobody will think that the leader may co-op with TM and eject any player they don't like

or you just say " TRUST ME " and others say " I DON"T TRUST YOU " it will become non-stop argue only.
mliencheng
I agree that some things need to be kept anonymous for private issues. But the rule of the tournament isn't really the case, it just needs clarity.

Anyways, at least the process of registration should be made into a graph or a list to express it in a better way.


As I understand until now the process is :

1)Register individually
2)Filter noobs and players who violated the rules
3)TM choose the Representative
4)Representative choose members among those who are qualified

For the filtering process, I strongly suggest to list its thresholds to lessen TM's works. A tournament must list it's criteria, listing the criterias of noob and rules.
e.g. Rank>1000 , no multi-account found within past 1 year , etc...

And for the representative choosing process, the list of playes non-qualified will certainly be made public, since the representative will choose among those who are qualified. Thus it's not a big deal publishing the list.
lolcubes
Good to see things cleared then.

The main issue here were not given facts, it was the various possible interpretations of the said facts. With that cleared up, I believe people will have much easier time understanding all this then.

I still believe team representatives should be the ones responsible for their player list though. You don't need map pool information to see if a person can play a 4 osu stars Oni or not. A normal background check (i.e. a valid registration) should be enough for the team representative to make a decision (I am pretty sure the 5 most skilled people in a country's team will at least know of each other, making "can't play a Kantan" thing an impossible extreme).
That would save time for the staff. But yeah, we can't really see everything so I can only speculate here.
Topic Starter
Loctav
You don't need to worry about the time sink at my side :P I have enough of it and will spend it, even if it takes a long while. I'd rather move away the time consuming tasks away from the players to make them focus on actually playing the tournament rather than with formal things.

The representative will only see valid registrations, thus not knowing who did not pass the pre checks. I will also not release a list of players that were valid registered but which the representative did not pick. I do that for privacy reasons. Anyways, I can not control what the captain is doing.
Dainesl
Let's see where this goes then, now that everything is clear \:D/
mliencheng
Hope so

Good luck for this year's tournament ;)
Minhtam
Explain to me why I should watch this tournament when we all know Japan is 98% likely to win?
LunaticP

minhtam1638 wrote:

Explain to me why I should watch this tournament when we all know Japan is 98% likely to win?

Then why people still have to buy lottery? The chance is even less than 0.01%.
TimmyAkmed

minhtam1638 wrote:

Explain to me why I should watch this tournament when we all know Japan is 98% likely to win?
The shitmiss is real, even more on the Japanese team according to the last TWC haha!
LZD

minhtam1638 wrote:

Explain to me why I should watch this tournament when we all know Japan is 98% likely to win?
People who love this game won't say this.
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