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[Guideline] Map's Creator must map an easier difficulty.

posted
Total Posts
32
Winek
888 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Winek
I'll just give a quick exemple:
RandomPlayer: Wow, I really like SuperMapper's Maps. I'll go get some more!
RandomPlayer: I love this mapper and the song... but I can't pass the Insane that SuperMapper made also, and there aren't any easier diffs by him...
Some time later
RandomPlayer: Hello SuperMapper, why didn't you map anything easier on this song?
SuperMapper: Lol get lost and go train instead of annoying me :)

Changing the OP:

The mapper should map at least a single Easy, Normal or Hard. Mapping only an Insane/Extra or more would not be suggested,
Other difficulties can be provided by other people.

Changed to guideline for now.
Last edited by Winek , edited 2 times in total.
[N]ephy
[N]ephy
You're completely right, we should not forget beginners or people who wants to play easy/normal/hard maps.
But like that people who just like to do an specialy map on their favourite music must to do other difficults ... they will just do nothing :/
Eni
1,437 posts
Joined May 2013
Eni
Mappers shouldn't be restricted to what difficulties they need to map. I don't see how this new rule will help the current Ranking System. We have Guest Difficulties to help the original mapper.
Ayachi-
2,261 posts
Joined November 2013
Ayachi-
lol, I think GD works fine
nothing wrong with GD
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
Although I'd want to see more mappers making all the set difficulties, I understand the human side of mappers and I see no reason to restrict it specifically to easier difficulties, if they're forced to, we'll end with worse easier difficulties, so let's just keep it as we have now.
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx
When I read the title I thought OP wanted to prevent mapsets like these https://osu.ppy.sh/s/210937 https://osu.ppy.sh/s/87630 whose creator only mapped 1 diff and let the rest be GD's.

Anyways, to answer your proposal, I do agree that it's no fun for us less skilled players to be unable to play those single really hard difficulty beatmaps like [FOUR DIMENSIONS] and [0108 style] and [WHO'S AFRAID OF THE BIG BLACK] properly.
So now they already can't get ranked anymore unless the song is over 5 minutes, and very few are. Those maps you mention were ranked before the 5 minute approval rule. If somebody wanted to rank them now, yes, they'd have to map a full set with easier diffs.
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
this rule already exists.

There's literally a rule for this.
Black Wolf159
141 posts
Joined August 2012
Black Wolf159
Less Skilled players even play Big black or Image Material to improve, I just don't like the idea.
If the mapper want to make all diff, good, but if it's the contrary, we can't do nothing. It's true that some songs are really good but hard at the same time.

There are a lot of map on osu to play, people will get better to play those popular or funny songs, Mapping and playing isn't the same but they're both hard and spend your time. Players can learn how to map with osu!academy help or some other person; even by self...

xxdeathx: Best 2013 map and only have 1 diff by Kuria, lol.
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach
I don't understand the reasoning behind this. While I would like larger contributions from the uploader (especially in the case of shorter songs) I don't think it's reasonable to make them HAVE to map their own easy/normal difficulty. I'm unsure what your reasoning for suggesting this is based off of the little story in the op, because that never happens. If SuperMapper wants to make hard maps and only hard maps included in his set, that's fine, as SuperMappers' maps will not get ranked that way. Unless they're above 5 minutes, in which case, good on him. That's the entire premise of approval.
KSHR
osu! Alumni
1,668 posts
Joined July 2010
KSHR

DakeDekaane wrote:

Although I'd want to see more mappers making all the set difficulties, I understand the human side of mappers and I see no reason to restrict it specifically to easier difficulties, if they're forced to, we'll end with worse easier difficulties, so let's just keep it as we have now.
I agree with this.
What's wrong with asking a mapper who is good at making easier difficulties for Easy/Normal?
Well.. there is no point in stating this into the Ranking Criteria in my opinion.
Winek
888 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Winek
As I said;

What if a player wants to play SuperMaper's map, but can't pass anything because he only make [noguard] [FOUR DIMENSION] [xxx style] ?
I totally am not talking about GDs; i'm talking about THE mapper.

I don't know if anyone understood but I said that the original creator of the mapset must at least map one of the easy difficulty including easy/normal/hard.
i guess my stupid op wasnt good enough
Thus this mapset:
Easy
RandomMapper's Normal
IdkWho's Hard
Insane

Would be correct; because the original mapper mapped an easier difficulty.

The reason i'm doing this thread is because alot of people think about the song; That's why a proper mapset must be included with at least a Normal.
But did you even think about Players that want to play X Mapper's map, but can because of these things? (thanks xxdeathx)
Last edited by Winek , edited 3 times in total.
Kyouren
5,659 posts
Joined October 2012
Kyouren
I think add too: Advanced or Medium diff~
If a mapper make Normal is too hard or Hard is too easy, so yeah (add)!
Winek
888 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Winek

gokugohan12468 wrote:

I think add too: Advanced or Medium diff~
If a mapper make Normal is too hard or Hard is too easy, so yeah (add)!
Advanced and Medium are somehow alike to Normal and Hard, so i guess it can be as well in.
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and hoping you were saying the less completely wrong thing. Turns out i was wrong

Firstly, I dont think this is an issue people even care about. I see issues with mappers just piling on guest diffs, but ive never seen anybody caring about "oh well i just really need this guy's easies", especially in the context youre putting it in, with the implication that people are actively discussing wanting specific mappers easy diffs.

Secondly, theres no real justification to make it a rule. For a new rule to be added, there has to be an issue present id the rule is not added. For instance, the tule of forcing mappers to map the majority is in place because otherwise, it can be seen as taking someone elses work and getting credit for it, since someone else made the majority of the content. With this, theres no problem that is created from not having this.

I could go on, but i think those two points touch the majority of why this is completely wrong. If its seriously an issue to where you just NEED to pass a certain mappers map, then let that be motivation to get better at the game. Also, i dont see how people really would even get a sense of satisfaction from having a specific mappers easy. Theres huge stylistic changes that happen between easy and extra. I dont play a CDFA easy and go "wow this is just like playing CDFAs hardest map wow am i satisfied"

. . . Also, i dont even think theres any active mappers that fit this criteria of having no submitted easies/normals anyway, so uhhh
Winek
888 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Winek

CDFA wrote:

long text so just replaced it with "long text" ll
Trying to pill up the massh duuh

This is to prevents thing like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/87630 where the mapper only maps Insane and leave the other stuff to other mappers.
But indeed, having this as a "rule" doesn't quite fit, so I think a guideline here would be much appropriated.

and yes i do care duh look at my shitty rank
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/104986

Heres some Kurai easy for you have fun
Oyatsu
1,909 posts
Joined December 2012
Oyatsu
Feel nothing to say this as a new rule, what if the song is difficult to map a Easy/Normal diff, for example like high bpm. It is already a must. For clearer, I really didn't understand your mean and the mean of the subject.
Winek
888 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Winek

CDFA wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/104986

Heres some Kurai easy for you have fun
So I can't play a mapper's easy/normal etc because probably it was too boring to do this for the mapper, or that he just want to take [noguard] style and can't even map a single Hard diff?
ErunamoJAZZ
osu! Alumni
2,728 posts
Joined August 2012
ErunamoJAZZ
Hi. For me, the important thing is that the mapset have a proper spread. What care who made the diff?
Im agree with railgun that this "rule" is not intended to improve the ranking system. It is more a personal taste imo.

Is like the rule about preview point unsnaped xD

:)
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
This is an awful idea.
Akali
639 posts
Joined November 2012
Akali
What's the difference who maps it, they are all the same, easies especially. Newer players should forfeit playing easies or normals as fast as they can, the only reason more than 5 of them exists is that they can enjoy same songs.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
ftr Nogard diffs are Blue Dragon maps and he's mapped easier maps in his own sets.

Not every mapper is good at mapping every difficulty, some are pretty good at making Insanes/Extras but can't map an Easy/Normal, while others are good at mapping Easy/Normal but can't map an Insane/Extra, this is the reason mappers seek guest diffs to make good mapsets, in the end, you're still playing a difficulty that matches your play skill existent on the set, which is the reason the difficulty spread rule exists, we want good quality mapsets and unfortunately since not everyone is expert at mapping every single level of difficulty, guest mappers help in that regard.
Sonnyc
7,761 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc

Winek wrote:

So I can't play a mapper's easy/normal etc because probably it was too boring to do this for the mapper, or that he just want to take [noguard] style and can't even map a single Hard diff?
Well I personally think those are the main reasons for accepting guest difficulties..
At least an easy difficulty has been mapped with the song since the rule for spread exists.
Super mappers are most likely to be in that status because they are good at mapping high level beatmaps, and I doubt if that supermapper making an easier difficulty will differ much from other average mappers. Surely a distinction will exist, but that ammount will be small than the higher diffs. I'm not saying that the easier diffs are good to ignore, but focusing on their strengths will benefit the entire set.

How about thinking this way? Each mappers focusing one difficulty of the map can pour their energy of mapping totally, resulting into both an efficient and effective way to complete a mapset.
Last edited by Sonnyc , edited 1 time in total.
Winek
888 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Winek
Well, I don't want to be selfish, so please deny this, since everyone is desagreeing.

dat ninja Sonnyc
D33d
1,697 posts
Joined April 2011
D33d
If anything, I'd rather the suggestion was flipped on its head to get the uploader to make at least a hard and/or insane, since either of these would be a better reflection of their ability and style. I think it'd be good to encourage mappers to improve their easier diffs, since I often find that they're dire. However, I don't think a rule's necessary.

If a mapper were to find a good guest mapper of e/n, then they should be able to learn from them and be able to make the things quite comfortably.
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx
Oh lol I don't think the people who play easy/normal/hard are gonna care who mapped the diff. Hell, they might not even notice the GD name. A few weeks ago I had someone rage PM me with a screen shot of their 1x miss on xChippy's aLIEz diff.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,316 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
I can see your point, Winek, yet I don't think it's gonna work how you think.
A mapping style is mostly shown the most in the highest diff (I highly assume that, at least). If the same mapper mapped an easy, it would probably turn out completely different, and that's why I'm not really supporting that.

And: If you're a hard-diff player, and your fav. mapper made an easy, where's the use? So it's kind of a random event to happen, after all.

and apparently everyone hates my special patterns on normal diffs, H4T3RS it's appropriate, OKAY?! http://puu.sh/eaf4V/579cfd8186.jpg
Aka
1,777 posts
Joined January 2012
Aka
ive never uderstood the sense of such kind of ideas..
lets at least say, that a bunch of people has no freaking idea how to map an easiest difficulty just cause they got used to map extras and insanes. and this is totally fine from my side. why should someone get forced to damn stress their butt and map something they have no idea about, when they can ask for a gd some good mapper and it will be even better?
same goes for the vise versa thing, mapping a highest difficulty. i see nothing wrong will being able or just wanting to map an in-between
hard or normal diffs. usually its not about the laziness but the actual ability. like, i know that im not that good in mapping some jumpy diffs but feel like the set wold be better with an insane diff. just not simply not good in it and sure that <mapper1> or <mapper2> can make a delicious thing here. so whats wrong with it? why should someone be forced? thats not right imo and i am being a bit outraged, sorry, lmao
Last edited by Aka , edited 1 time in total.
Lanturn
osu! Alumni
3,912 posts
Joined March 2012
Lanturn

xxdeathx wrote:

Oh lol I don't think the people who play easy/normal/hard are gonna care who mapped the diff.
I do...


To be honest, I don't think this is necessary. I do prefer when mappers map the whole thing themselves, or at least 50% of it, but it shouldn't be a requirement to have them map certain difficulties. They usually create pretty crappy Easy/Normal diffs anyways. lol.

So... no. I don't think this rule is necessary. I'd support a 50% rule, but not forcing them to map certain diffs.

The same goes true for me. I create the worst Insane/Extra diffs ever, so I'd rather map ENH maps.
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx

Lanturn wrote:

xxdeathx wrote:

Oh lol I don't think the people who play easy/normal/hard are gonna care who mapped the diff.
I do...
i mean the people that have trouble playing easy diffs...
Winek
888 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Winek
So to answer all of those question;

I simply just rapidly thought about this idea, told myself worst, etc. And i decided sharing my idea to the world osu community.

But since no one are agreeing, and I do think that most of you are right, we shouldn't force any mapper to map anything they can't, I do belive no further discussion is required. but yeah you can of course post all the comment you want while that,
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
Seems like everything to be said on the topic has been said. OP even expresses remorse over posting. Flaming.
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