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Sum of combo in team vs

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +10
maboesanman
35 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
maboesanman
The idea is to put in a number, maybe in the bottom right corner, which is the sum of the combos of all the members on your team. the reason behind this is that as of now there isn't really a way to see how much potential your whole team has to change. seeing which team has the lead only tells you half the story. you also want to know which team is increasing in score faster, and how much faster. this is exactly what sum of combo does.

the goal is to give a sense of momentum to the matches, and, if implemented into the tournament client, let the audience know whether the teams are moving apart of coming together.

EDIT: read my reply a few replies down for clarification. This is NOT a sum of Max combos, it is a sum of combos at a given time.
Last edited by maboesanman , edited 1 time in total.
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
Joined July 2010
Oinari-sama
Combo sum doesn't make much sense in osu standard

In team vs it's all about your highest combo vs mine. Even if both teams have the same combo sum (eg 250+250+250+250 vs 100+100+100+700), the highest combo can carry the whole team if the difference is significant enough.

I really don't see how this can provide useful info during a match.
Yukiteru Amano
409 posts
Joined September 2012
Yukiteru Amano
What Oinari said, I don't see what valuable information this would give us.
maboesanman
35 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
maboesanman
I should clarify, this is useful DURING the match. if AT ONE INSTANT my team has the combos 20,28,168,340 and your team has 127,15,270,268 you would see 556 on the left, and 680 on the right while playing or spectating.

at this point in time, if everyone on both teams gets a 300, then the team score on the left increases by

300*20+300*28+300*168+300*340=300*(20+28+168+340)=300*556

and on the right

300*127+300*15+300*270+300*268=300*(127+15+270+268)=300*680

it's not the sum of the max combos, but the sum of combos at any given time.

maybe the max of the sum over the match (which is different from the sum of the maxes) could be useful, but you are both right in saying that the sum of the max combos at the end of the song is a mostly useless stat. It's important to note that there's a difference between these.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
combo's in osu!standard increase in an exponential rate. even if both teams have the same sum combo, it doesn't really mean that much at all as it doesn't fully show the distribution of points. it just seems like a random number that doesn't help much
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
I thought it was exponential
So... This means nothing
If the combos are 5,5,5,800, they will win from 300,300,300,300, even though the first team's summed combo is lower
Gumpy
2,418 posts
Joined June 2014
Gumpy
There is not point since score counts for more.
and what everyone else said.
Full Tablet
2,543 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
It is quadratic, not exponential.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
ah, apologies on that mistake. but yeah, the point is i really can't see this being of much use
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-

Full Tablet wrote:

It is quadratic, not exponential.
Both serve the same goal
The bigger the X, the higher the Y grows, when X raises by 1 (Derivative)
But still, as Deadbeat said, it isn't helpful at all (maybe it's even confusing) so I dislike
maboesanman
35 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
maboesanman

baraatje123 wrote:

Full Tablet wrote:

It is quadratic, not exponential.
Both serve the same goal
The bigger the X, the higher the Y grows, when X raises by 1 (Derivative)
But still, as Deadbeat said, it isn't helpful at all (maybe it's even confusing) so I dislike
Except that's not how it works. The scores are roughly quadratic in combo because (assuming no sliders/spinners) if a song has n notes, then sum from k=1 to n of 300*k = 300*n(n+1)/2=150n^2+150n, which will be dominated by the biggest combo, if you're close to an FC.

My idea preserves this in a team scenario. I'll try to make a video of one of the owc matches with a sum of combo stat to show why it's useful. It's not just some number on the score screen. It doesn't even need to be on the score screen. The point is to have it during the match.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
i have a question, and this is important. is this for while playing, or spectating a tournament like OWC?
maboesanman
35 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
maboesanman
This is mostly for tournament spectating, and I guess I should've emphasized that more.

That said, it would probably have to be added to the team team vs gamemode before it could be added to the tournament client
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
alright, well for tournament purposes, i don't see a huge need. you can already see how the scores for each time increase. plus the commentators tend to mention when a team has room to catch up if they can maintain their combos. i just don't see a need for this
Full Tablet
2,543 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
For this idea to work better, instead of showing the sum of combo of each team, show the square root of the sum of the squares of the combos:
For example:
5, 5, 5, 800 -> 800.046
300, 300, 300, 300 -> 600

This would give a better idea of which team has a combo advantage, while still making the calculation simple.
maboesanman
35 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
maboesanman
To get a sense of who is catching up to who you need to look at 10 numbers: The combos for both teams, and the score sums. This was what I felt was the biggest problem with owc. If everyone has broken combo fairly recently, then you pretty much have no way of knowing who is increasing faster. I agree with you that the commentators try to do this, but they really just start saying "it's anyone's game" and "oh man everybody is breaking" if they can't compare the number of full combos. As an owc spectator, this was frustrating to me, which is why I'm suggesting a fix. I'll try to mock up what it could look like today if I have time, because I still think it has merit, but that I'm communicating that merit poorly.
maboesanman
35 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
maboesanman
While I think that you have an interesting idea with the squares, I think that you could replace it with "max concurrent combo" and that would do the same thing but be slightly less mystical. I get how it does what you want, but it's not really useful real time, just on the score screen.
Full Tablet
2,543 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
If you want a number that can be used to predict who is going to win assuming people on the teams will FC the rest of the map, then you could show the score of each team at the end of the map assuming they will FC the rest of the map (while getting 300s).

If you want the number to show the current rate of score increase, then the sum of the combos would help (plus a constant that corresponds to the score increase that is independent of current combo).
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