The mappool is too easy, especially compared to last year. People have progressed A LOT since last year and this shouldn't happen, it should be the opposite. Not to mention that the tiebreaker is too damn easy compared to the rest of the maps... YOU CAN'T MISS ON THOSE MAPS, unless it's a totally random miss ANYONE can do during the match. Those maps won't judge your playing skill but your accuracy only, since everyone's gonna FC them (unless someone misses, but that'd be due to some completely random factors as lags or sth, the best players equal the the lower players all the same here). In our group we have Netherlands, Canada and Poland. How are those maps gonna distinguish 2 better teams out of those 3? It's just impossible, everyone's gonna FC them unless some spike happens or a random factor is involved (not to mention you gave HK a chance to actually fight with us with those picks). It shouldn't be like that. Also why are the same maps as last year already being picked? Caramel Heaven, Nevereverland, Yoiduki Maiuta, shinkaron. Didn't we have plenty of maps ranked this year that you could pick? Btw, Hidden picks are somehow the hardest maps out of all from the pool, no clue why. I strongly advise to revise these maps before the actual tournament and make them harder.

fartownik wrote:

The mappool is too easy, especially compared to last year. People have progressed A LOT since last year and this shouldn't happen, it should be the opposite. Not to mention that the tiebreaker is too damn easy compared to the rest of the maps... YOU CAN'T MISS ON THOSE MAPS, unless it's a totally random miss ANYONE can do during the match. Those maps won't judge your playing skill but your accuracy only, since everyone's gonna FC them (unless someone misses, but that'd be due to some completely random factors as lags or sth, the best players equal the the lower players all the same here). In our group we have Netherlands, Canada and Poland. How are those maps gonna distinguish 2 better teams out of those 3? It's just impossible, everyone's gonna FC them unless some spike happens or a random factor is involved (not to mention you gave HK a chance to actually fight with us with those picks). It shouldn't be like that. Also why are the same maps as last year already being picked? Caramel Heaven, Nevereverland, Yoiduki Maiuta, shinkaron. Didn't we have plenty of maps ranked this year that you could pick? Btw, Hidden picks are somehow the hardest maps out of all from the pool, no clue why. I strongly advise to revise these maps before the actual tournament and make them harder.

I don't know how many more times I have to emphasize the fact that a different philosophy has been used. It will start of easier and up harder. It won't be a barely existent curve anymore like the previous years. There's going to be a build up. A build up to live up with the hype of this tournament. It will become progressingly harder. The further you go in the tournament, the harder it will become. You worry about missing. Missing will always be a factor. It has litteraly nothing to do with the maps represented. It's either you lack the skill, you can't control your nerves or something outside your own has influence on your result (such as lag). Theses three factors have zero correlation with the difficulty of a beatmap. If a miss has high influence in the early stages, well, I have a pro tip for you. Don't miss. Consistency is a factor that should also be rewarding and it will be, relatively, more rewarding in this early stage.

Caramel Heaven was used last year in the finals as a free mod. A map you claim to be ''so easy'' and yet it got all the way to the finals. That will not happen this year. When it comes to the other maps, every single one was used for a different mod bracket. And besides, if the map is good the map is good. Why favor something new over something old yet good? I think we've created a fine balance between newer and older maps. And I've already said before. I've litteraly played every single map in 2014 that I, according to the philosophy used this year, find acceptable in terms of difficulty. I don't think hidden is the hardest bracket at all. It simply shows that rarely anybody uses hidden only for mod usages. Everybody plays HR or DT (with perhaps HD as a secondary mod). Nobody plays HD only on a map that has patterns that could be deemed more difficult.

And dear god, ''strongly advising'' to revise an entire map list? I'm fine with you not agreeing with a certain path that has been set up this year, but completely revising the idea that has been set in motion to create a 'complete experience tournament' is ludacris.

Ace3DF wrote:

Maps look a lot easier to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of the players SS'd (or 1 100x off)

lol totally agree, this mappool looks so easy D:

You say that the maps will go harder and harder, yes that's the point of you doing this. But you start off from a too easy "foot" already. The maps should've been harder to begin with, then you could start making them gradually harder, just like it was a year ago. Someone said that "consistency is a skill", of course it is but it shouldn't be forced as the main decider of who gets out of group and who doesn't, not "THIS" consistency. Btw, missing has nothing to do with the maps represented? Of course it has. You let the possibility of a tight match between a top tier country and a lower tier country to occur by doing such picks.

Also you talk about Caramel Heaven from last year when the FreeMod bracket was broken and the map selectors didn't exactly know what they should pick for those stages, thus ending up with random maps there at times.

this mappool's garbage

GladiOol wrote:

Consistency is a factor that should also be rewarding and it will be, relatively, more rewarding in this early stage.

The mappool promotes consistency over overall skill? Top seeded teams are at risk of being eliminated by low seeded teams, should it really be that way? Should a team considered to be the strongest really have a chance to lose in group stages because one of their members had an unlucky miss while the 7 other players went on to FC the map?

Just throwing thoughts to make sure you thought this through properly and not going with a "yolo lets do things different because i can" mentality. This just feels.. wrong.

fartownik wrote:

You say that the maps will go harder and harder, yes that's the point of you doing this. But you start off from a too easy "foot" already. The maps should've been harder to begin with, then you could start making them gradually harder, just like it was a year ago. Someone said that "consistency is a skill", of course it is but it shouldn't be forced as the main decider of who gets out of group and who doesn't, not "THIS" consistency. Btw, missing has nothing to do with the maps represented? Of course it has. You let the possibility of a tight match between a top tier country and a lower tier country to occur by doing such picks.

Also you talk about Caramel Heaven from last year when the FreeMod bracket was broken and the map selectors didn't exactly know what they should pick for those stages, thus ending up with random maps there at times.

I've play tested this already. I did not start off at the wrong foot. In the bigger lines, the map list is already complete. I know what difficulty will come next and I know what will come after. The banning phase and loser bracket were both suggested by me for this reason. They fit the philsophy. If they were not implemented I would not have done it this way.

I agree that more ''tight'' matches might occur. But if you lose 3 times against a lower tier team, you lose because you are worse. I don't think this needs discussion. I've played the owc 3 times and every single map my team lost were because we simply played worse. The maps do not have a factor in this.

And why would the map selectors not know what to pick? It's a bracket where HD and HR are allowed, thus they pick maps that give the same experience and difficulty when played with HR and HD individualy.

win condition acc let's go

Azer wrote:

GladiOol wrote:

Consistency is a factor that should also be rewarding and it will be, relatively, more rewarding in this early stage.

The mappool promotes consistency over overall skill? Top seeded teams are at risk of being eliminated by low seeded teams, should it really be that way? Should a team considered to be the strongest really have a chance to lose in group stages because one of their members had an unlucky miss while the 7 other players went on to FC the map?

''Consistency is a factor that should also be rewarding and it will be, relatively, more rewarding in this early stage.''

- ''Oh that means he's saying that overall skill is of less importance!''

????

Azer wrote:

Just throwing thoughts to make sure you thought this through properly and not going with a "yolo lets do things different because i can" mentality. This just feels.. wrong.

If you would have taken the slightest amount of time to even read what I have posted so far in this thread or even simply PM'd me through forums or in-game, you'd know by now this is not the case. You're reading my posts out of context and you're questioning that which I have already answered.

Azer wrote:

I really dislike the idea of starting off easy because all it does is give worse teams (to say it bruntly) more chances to eliminate teams that would crush them on a harder mappool.

This.

For those who are thinking "well if the teams that are worse manage to beat the better ones, they deserve to win" I disagree. The maps listed seem to be fcable on a random try for almost anyone who is rank <2k. If you put two teams together, both consisting of players that are capable of fcing the maps, it will come down to whoever doesn't lose concentration for half a moment. Not who is a more skilled team which has better players.

All I'm saying is that with this map pool, it would be no surprise to me if a team averaging 5k pp beat a team which averages 6k pp, solely based on the map set. If harder maps were to be chosen, the higher ranked team would have a much much better chance of winning.

I believe the solution for you would be to skip this mappool and proceed to the mappool from the next stage, as (if I understood correctly) you have the next stage maps' picked already. This would basically move the difficulty 1 tick higher than it is right now and fix the problem.

It'd be great if you could actually answer politely and not be aggressive for no good reason

fartownik wrote:

I believe the solution for you would be to skip this mappool and proceed to the mappool from the next stage, as (if I understood correctly) you have the next stage maps' picked already. This would basically move the difficulty 1 tick higher than it is right now and fix the problem.

I agree with this.

I really don't understand your problems here.

I mean to take the exemple of the last TWC, maps were picked following a difficulty curve.
In the group stages, there were really easy maps, and they became harder and harder. : In the end, only the best teams were still there. Why ? Because they are polyvalent and simply better.
If your team lose, you simply played worse. Even if the mappool is easy, there is NO WAY you can lose 4 times against an "inferior" team. Yeah you might lose one match because of a random miss blablabla, but for f*** sake : If you're better than your opponent, you WON'T LOSE.

I like the fact that this mappool actually gives lower-skilled teams a chance to make an upset. Upsets are always nice to watch. Personally, when I look at a match between two teams, I am always rooting for the weaker team. If only the top teams get out of group stages every time, then... what's the point of group stages? Might as well start the tournament from the 1/8 finals.

Usually, higher teams look at the group stages just as something annoying that they are forced to endure and go through before business picks up in the later stages. Well, now they can't really allow themselves to underestimate the early stage of the tournament. Just like many people so far said, one random miss might decide the winner. And to me, as a viewer, that creates anticipation of not knowing what will happen. After all, it will be really boring to watch a match with the thought "Ugh, ok ok, I know the winner here, what's the point of the match, just get it over with".

And finally, just like Gladi said, if you lose 3 times to a supposedly weaker team, than than isn't luck... it means that the weaker team was actually yours.

Arrival wrote:

I really don't understand your problems here.

I mean to take the exemple of the last TWC, maps were picked following a difficulty curve.
In the group stages, there were really easy maps, and they became harder and harder. : In the end, only the best teams were still there. Why ? Because they are polyvalent and simply better.
If your team lose, you simply played worse. Even if the mappool is easy, there is NO WAY you can lose 4 times against an "inferior" team. Yeah you might lose one match because of a random miss blablabla, but for f*** sake : If you're better than your opponent, you WON'T LOSE.

You miss the point. Look at the teams from the "death groups", for example our group. There's no way those maps can distinguish the better ones from the lower ones, it will be luck/accuracy fights only.

Eh, Gigo. Not even gonna comment on your post.

fartownik, I am just talking from a viewer's perspective. I know most players won't agree with me.

Ofc from viewer's perspective it'd be interesting, but it would be unfair from player's perspective.

f

fartownik wrote:

Ofc from viewer's perspective it'd be interesting, but it would be unfair from player's perspective.

I dont even think this would be good for the viewers, there are a lot of good songs which are hard, and people want to see crazy stuf

consistency and accuracy are also a skill.
if you lose because of those factors then you need to reconsider if your team is actually better in a tournament setting.
especially dont forget the tournament setting, if we really only cared about who can play the hardest maps then you may aswell just pick the country with the best average rank in the ranking list and call them the world champions.

Interesting mappool.

Huh, Caramel Heaven is in this list ONCE again.
And this definitely fits for the group stage.

I swear Caramel Heaven was a free mod last time....

.

Trust me, people won't 4SS these maps.

Just trust me. It won't happen.

KRZY wrote:

Trust me, people won't 4SS these maps.

Just trust me. It won't happen.

Yes, they will 4 1x100 them.

mappool is too hard, we need slower songs and AR8

Another advice to map pickers.

Please avoid maps which start after a half second like the FELT one.


Just please don't pick them.

May be a double post but whatever.

OWC is not a tournament that determines which country has the best players. It is a tournament that determines which country has players that perform in Multiplayer games against each other the best. This is a significant difference, and one that justifies using what may seem to be easier maps to tell the difference between the more established countries.

People tend to be worse in Multiplayer games than their records may show. This is not scientifically proven or anything but I am sure it is something you have all noticed, whether it be in your personal experience or in previous OWCs. It is however scientifically proven that a lot of people perform below their standards when there is pressure, and what a pressuring environment OWC provides. Add these two together, and you have players that perform nowhere near the level their solo records suggest; this is intended, natural, and taken into account when selecting maps.

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

Another advice to map pickers.

Please avoid maps which start after a half second like the FELT one.


Just please don't pick them.

Get it right ppy plz

I know PP rating isn't the absolute truth, but this may come in handy.

Just made it for fun, you can get some interesting numbers out of it. May be probably broken due to GDocs glitching crap up.

Do Brazilians actually use commas as a decimal indicator?

KRZY wrote:

Do Brazilians actually use commas as a decimal indicator?

I don't, but google docs forced me to use that and I didn't know how to change that, so I just didn't care much.

Well, this only proves more that the maps are too easy, and definitely easier than last year. You can't deny it now and perhaps you can make something out of that. Have we really regressed to the level from 2 years ago? (because the maps are almost as easy as the ones from that time).

I agree that they are too easy but also why is there fewer maps to choose from in comparison to last year. I mean with the banning it will take another 4 out of the list as well. Would be cool to have some more variation. Overall though it's not as bad and easy of a list as some are making it out to be, I think people are slightly overreacting lol

.

Wow, actually all of maps I get SS or S, and most of my ranks nowadays are from multiplayer sooooo... I feel dissapointed, it doesn't fit the tournament where best of the best plays against each other. Lycorsis HR insted of RLC another would be awesome for example, Oms song - is it paraolimpic song xD? Sky gate is the only one of DT which can cause random miss, it's sad. Again - God Speed? Ofc with HR it could be tie-breaker, but no mod it's 1play FC even on multi. Also the captain KRZY probably knows that it's not the 1st time those players will participate so stress factor should be reduced to a little above average multiplayer game.


I'm not surprised that you try to set for lower skill after not letting many awesome players to play but pls, it's meh, indecent at so many levels.

It's not too late to change the mappool if you come up with better one, Gladi. It's been done before in previous OWCs, I don't see a reason why can't it be done now.

fartownik wrote:

It's not too late to change the mappool if you come up with better one, Gladi. It's been done before in previous OWCs, I don't see a reason why can't it be done now.

bump

Oh cmon why do you always want to change the tournament to fit your taste
Putting pretty difficult maps right away in owc 2013 was a mistake. And difficulty curve was a lot better in earlier owcs
I like Gladi's (other maps electors too?) idea of giving space for strategy for all teams. Makes matches interesting both for players and viewers.
(underdogs beating supposedly top team because they are too arrogant about their skill level hohoho)

fartownik wrote:

It's not too late to change the mappool if you come up with better one, Gladi. It's been done before in previous OWCs, I don't see a reason why can't it be done now.

It's actually too late. Unless you wanna change like one or two maps.

Maps are easy because I'm not picking them anymore, yet when I used some hard maps everyone cried they were too hard. Picking maps is a pain in the ass anyways especially when you get so many random restrictions.

I noticed some maps from last year are used. its not a bad thing, but i'd like to see other maps. like caramel heaven was reused and I remember seeing like 4~5/8 people SS that XD I think it was on Taiwan vs Japan .

I wanna point out that osu in general isn't a strategy-oriented game so I'm not really sure why the emphasis on it now.

Be that as it may, a strategic map pool should offer variety on many levels such as what captnxn said about DT.

Teams have different strengths. A team might be excellent DTers while terrible at HD. Another team might have extraordinary consistency but don't have as high of skill.

Banning what you suspect is the opponent's strengths is THE purpose of bans, but without variety, meaningful choices can't be made.

Currently, absolute difficulty is one of the culprits causing low variety. Easier maps emphasize consistency, which is extremely important but should share its importance with map reading, stream speed, jumping etc. Current map pool pretty much ignores it all, considering players are 5k+.

Tldr Please reconsider the map pool