Hello, so since the start I was bad at 7k. Compared to 4k the difference was really big. Thats why I started to focus more on 7k instead of 4k. Once I noticed I made improvements I thought that the gap would slowly close but I improved by the same amount in 4k. Even though I did play 7k so much more.
I get almost no PP from 7k.. But I noticed that all the top players get most of their PP from 7k which makes me worrying.

So I wanted to ask can I do anything more than just focus more on 7k? (which I already do)
Was/Is it the same for you that you were in 4k better than in 7k?

Most people are going too tell you play more.

Unfortunately all you can do... really is play more.

Play more = get used to keys = better play

I know how you feel. I am really atrocious at 7K (and quite bad at 4K). The problems I have are I think:

- the middle key. That one fucks me up like nothing else (because reasons)
- vertical scrolling
- simultaneous notes

All you can do is play. Don't try to play things that are clearly above your level. Play Easy/Normal (maybe some Hard) diffs until you get used to the keys. You could make yourself practice diffs if you struggle with something specific. Overall, play mania-specific diffs rather than converted ones, too.

There's a nice little thread that happens to be all about both how to get better (hint: it starts with 'play', and ends with 'more') as well as what the process of learning to play really looks like.

The first thing to do is simply play until you no longer need to consciously think about hitting the right key. Until this happens, you're always going to struggle. The amount of time it takes to get through this can vary between players a lot. Some people might be able to get through this in a few hours, while others might take days or weeks of playing before they really learn to respond automatically.

Space bar is always going to stand out. It's pretty much everyone's weakest key. It's certainly mine.

I have one issue with what Shiro said:

Shiro wrote:

Don't try to play things that are clearly above your level.

Be careful saying this. One of the most important things about improving in mania is actually to break out of your comfort zone. Many people mistakenly believe that unless they get high As or S's they can't really 'play' something. In mania, you should make sure you are playing songs over a wide range of difficulty, based on the score you can achieve on them. You should make sure to play songs you can C or B as well as songs you can A and S. Playing songs you can only manage a C or a B on will help you improve quicker than playing only things you can A or S. Playing songs you can A or S will primarily help you improve your accuracy, but not your overall ability to play harder things, whereas focusing on songs you can only B or C is going to help you learn to play harder patterns much faster, but will not improve your accuracy on things you're already relatively good at nearly as quickly. The best approach is probably to keep a good balance between these.

Shiro wrote:

Overall, play mania-specific diffs rather than converted ones, too.

This is basically necessary. Mania specific maps have very different patterns than autoconverts. Autoconverts do not pay attention to things such as layering multiple rhythms at once, or following pitch properly. Patterns created with layering often require much more individual finger dexterity because you may find one hand playing a completely different rhythm than the other hand, which can be very difficult at first. Patterns which follow the pitch are actually easier to understand than autoconvert patterns, but can sometimes be a bit tricky when they are mixed with other patterns.

Thank you all for the replies especially Bobbias.
I will now try to play harder songs in a wide variety and just play even more.

Uhh...play more xD
You need to be able to see the notes and not have to think about what keys to hit, once you reach that point, you'll get better at 7k. I was terrible at 7k up until a month ago (when I no longer had to think about what I was hitting), and now I'm equally as good at 7k as I am at 4k. Try to play more difficult songs, even if you can't pass them. If you keep playing them, you'll eventually pass them, and you'll adjust to 7k quicker. Play mania specific maps. That's basically it I guess.

Shxfted wrote:

Uhh...play more xD
You need to be able to see the notes and not have to think about what keys to hit, once you reach that point, you'll get better at 7k. I was terrible at 7k up until a month ago (when I no longer had to think about what I was hitting), and now I'm equally as good at 7k as I am at 4k.

That's an important step in the learning process that everyone needs to go through. Basically every model of learning we have has some description of this effect, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there is some sort of actual change in the brain associated with this process. Unfortunately, as far as I've been able to tell (I did some research on recent neuroscience in this subject) we still know very little about the actual processes as they happen in the brain.

Play more, and practice your timings first in your main mode (4k in this case). Once you're confident in your timing, move to 7k. (Or alternatively, you can try playing in 5k first and get used to space.)
Keep in mind that :
- Playing 4k first and working yourself up by adding keys is not the best way to improve in o!m. Play 7k first > Improves 4k, 5k, and 6k skill. It's harder to add extra keys than removing keys.
- Don't play beatmaps that are clearly way above your skill level. 10-20% seems to be optimal.
- It's preferable to play o!m only maps than converts to improve.
- When you have just started to change keys, try Easy/Normal osu! map converts and get used to it.

Also, I've noticed you play lots of NM but less HD+ diffs. Try playing HD+ diffs in 4k first.
P.S. : Ranks aren't everything in osu!. What matters is that you have fun by playing it.

richerjoker is correct the most important thing is that you have fun, weather this means to improve or not. you need to try push yourself out of your comfort zone as people have said, people recommend a b to a low a ranking but the ranking thats good for people to practise varys based on person and where they are at, if you have been playing autoconverts, idk how far you are in both keymodes stop them immediately and start playing o2jam,bms converts if you can they are unranked but they help with pattern recognition a lot.

one thing that i do have to disagree with is starting with 5k to get used to space and increasing keys, it is something that is good to experiment with but for me personally that doesn't work well and i had to move straight to 7k

Learning 5k and then moving up to learn 7k will slow you down, and probably take longer than just trying to learn 7k outright. This is because once you learn 5k and move up to 7k, you will suddenly need to learn to use 2 more fingers and deal with patterns you would never see in 5k. Even though they're both odd numbered key modes, 5k and 7k play pretty differently.

laishiou is right that BMS and o2jam converts can really help you with pattern reading.

+1 to is harder to add extra keys than removing keys.
I started playing 7k/4k until I felt confortable with it. Now I'm trying to move to 8k (LR2 IIDX) and it's been really hard...

LR2 is always going to be hard if you're moving from playing mania. LR2 has very unforgiving timing, and BMS files often have patterns that play very differently from what you see here.

Bobbias wrote:

LR2 is always going to be hard if you're moving from playing mania. LR2 has very unforgiving timing, and BMS files often have patterns that play very differently from what you see here.

Except a massive percentage of charts use easy judge which is actually pretty large relative to iidx timing. Easy is closer to stepmania timing, normal is closer to iidx (but still slightly more lax)

Easy is still much tighter than mania on it's highest OD with HR, so what's the point in comparing it to IIDX and stepman, his point is still very valid.

Because he said it is very unforgiving, when it's actually fairly relaxed

It's still stricter than average.

Djmax?
EZ2ON?
Ruvit?
o2jam?
o2mania?
FFR?
Rock Band?
Guitar hero?
Feel the beat?
Bandmaster?
(and stepmania)

The list goes on

They're all more lenient than LR2 on "easy". So yeah, it is unforgiving (HP and timegate wise) compared to everything else.

I actually think I'm having more trouble adapting to the UI layout than with the game itself. It would be great if I could easily play BMS files in osu!.
Btw I feel a little better now that I know that it's normal to suck so bad. lol

Well, there is quite a lot of 7k BMS converts made by Davteezy and Doorknob.. There's a huge range (★01~★24)+

Furthermore, if you want keysounded BMS files in osu! to play, and with scratch, you could always use woc's BMS to osu! converter. It's pretty simple to use, but sometimes it bugs out.

Or you could simply just try playing more and getting comfortable with the UI I suppose. It's hard at first but eventually you'll feel it being a lot more enjoyable.

The problem is that I wanted to practice 8k, and there are very few 8k maps for osu... ;-;
I tried that converter already, but osu just keeps loading and loading the resulted files forever. osu's built-in converter also doesn't work me for me (the notes don't appear after I import the BMS file) and I don't know why. @_@

I also tried using skins but it didn't help at all, because most of them are not clean enough for me. Oh, well, I'll keep trying. :3

some people are underrating the importance of working out.

and I mean, SWEAT IT OUT GUYS! not only in mania, but also in the gym, or basketball, or anything that will sweat you.

kidlat020 wrote:

some people are underrating the importance of working out.

and I mean, SWEAT IT OUT GUYS! not only in mania, but also in the gym, or basketball, or anything that will sweat you.

^This. Being in shape improves all of your general bodily functions, including finger tapping ability.

Tristan97 wrote:

kidlat020 wrote:

some people are underrating the importance of working out.

and I mean, SWEAT IT OUT GUYS! not only in mania, but also in the gym, or basketball, or anything that will sweat you.

^This. Being in shape improves all of your general bodily functions, including finger tapping ability.

I guess so but it isn't notable enough to make a big improvement in terms of playing ability for 7k lol.