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Poll 5: Ranking guidelines

posted
Total Posts
44

What's your opinion on the ranking guidelines?

They pose unnecessary limitations on maps.
24
18.32%
They're pretty much fine.
95
72.52%
They need to be made stricter.
12
9.16%
Total votes: 131
Polling ended
Sinistro
osu! Alumni
1,412 posts
Joined January 2008
Topic Starter
Sinistro
Over time, the guidelines and criteria offered for making, modding and ranking maps have grown, evolved and been refined. Over my time in the staff, I've heard people opining that the rules can be too stifling and limiting on a map's creativity and fun factor, while others have been calling for more rules, stricter rules, and/or greater adherence to the rules to maintain playability and a high standard of quality in ranked maps.

What's your opinion? Do you think the existing guidelines are sufficient, insufficient, or over-sufficient? Or perhaps you think that the rules are ok, but the problem is that they are not taken into account?

For those unfamiliar, you can find the current ranking criteria here:
Official Ranking Submission Criteria
eee
692 posts
Joined January 2008
eee
They're pretty much fine.

I follow the criteria most of the time and have no problem at all. I would say some guidelines are insufficient, but they make maps simpler and more fun most of the time.
WhoAteFred
20 posts
Joined January 2010
WhoAteFred
They're fine. Making them stricter would make them less "ranking guidelines" and more "ranking requirements". While all beatmaps now need a BG, the guidelines can be shifted around to make maps more enjoyable.
yeahyeahyeahhh
osu! Alumni
2,850 posts
Joined December 2008
yeahyeahyeahhh
I think they're fine, but some parts might been to be refined. More specially the difficulty part.

"At least two difficulties per song is required. If your beatmap's difficulty is 4 or more difficulty stars (in the song selection screen), it is necessary that you also include an easier version with 3 or less stars. There are a lot of players who are not so skilled at rhythm games - and this is one of the more difficult ones to get used to, so we should look at providing beatmaps which are passable for even beginners!"

I'll admit, I don't really follow this as much as I should, but I'm trying to make easier difficulties. Too many [H][I][I] maps. The whole "well I can beat it so even though its a H at 4.2 and was intended to be a easy" is bullshit. I think a difficulty with AT LEAST a [N] tag should be required.
jmaeshawn
170 posts
Joined May 2008
jmaeshawn
The guidelines themselves are fine, the problem lies with BATs who make up guidelines based on their own personal preferences and refuse to bubble or rank a map due to those "guidelines".

I say that the guidelines should be stuck to and keep personal preferences (like whether a video is "ecchi" or not) out of the ranking process.
Vanmonky
986 posts
Joined June 2009
Vanmonky
Yes, they are fine.
Ph0X
1,043 posts
Joined March 2009
Ph0X
I don't want to start this all over again, but in short, my opinion is:

They are fine as guidelines, but they shouldn't be rock solid rules. People should be allowed to cross them aslong as it feels right.
And to know if it is, I believe we should take into consideration the opinion of more than a single BAT, since people have different tastes.


EDIT:
@yeahyeahyeahhh: My way of seeing it is slightly different. Answer this:
How come it's completly fine for a map to have [E][E] or [E][N], but it's not allowed to have [H][H] or [H][I]?
It might sound normal to you, but when you look at it from another perspective, it's kinda wrong.
Of course, there are people who aren't good at the game, but there are also people who are good and want HARD beatmaps, and to be honest, there are FAR more easy beatmaps out there than really challenging beatmaps highrankers can actually enjoy and have a hard time beating.

And this is the only reasons I had arguments about the guidelines in the first place. I feel like they limit mappers in how hard of a beatmap they can make, and if we keep it this way, the skill level of the community will never increase. Us high rankers have the right to have difficulties we can enjoy too.
Randy96
1,113 posts
Joined August 2009
Randy96
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Doomsday
osu! Alumni
1,960 posts
Joined July 2008
Doomsday
Personally, I have no problem with the current guidelines in place, since the things I like the play in maps and the things I put in my own maps don't really cause much of a fuss in that sense.
qlum
481 posts
Joined October 2008
qlum
The guidelines for the actual map are fine but custom skins are accepted to easily and nobody actually looks if the audio is actually removed from video files.
Gens
osu! Alumni
3,485 posts
Joined August 2008
Gens
~They're pretty much fine.

At first I thought that they were too strict (like most of the people here), but later I figured that they were for the best. I find that in most cases they make the map better, which is always good.

I could complain about the score guidelines, but I haven't reached those cases in my maps, so I guess I can't say something about it just yet. I think it's fine though, since it prevents easy-ranking up etc.
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Card N'FoRcE
About the official ranking criteria, i guess they're to prevent the maps from being broken (2 hitobjects on the same spot for example) so they're perfectly legit. The only thing i'd change a bit is the score/lenght limit, since standards are pretty much changed today.

But where did things like: Spinner Auto +2000, No jumps or stacks on Easy, must have a easier difficulty, no stack leniency to 0 and some other come from?
These are the things i don't like, because too many people follows them as rules when they are not and make a fuss over them, like: "You have to fix this accordingly to this rule or it won't be rankable" totally ignoring the fun factor in the map and ignoring that it's not a rule, since they're not in the official criteria, as i can see.
CheeseWarlock
osu! Alumni
1,185 posts
Joined May 2008
CheeseWarlock
I think that what's there is good for a start and covers a lot of good rules, but there's still a huge amount of subjectivity. I believe in withholding ranking because of things that are in every way a BAT's opinion; every fix shouldn't have to refer to some rock-solid rule somewhere. If it was all so strict a lot more of the modding process could be automated.

For example, jumps on an Easy map. Will I say "you can never do that"? No. You're free to try, but if you do it badly I'll tell you to change it. Whether you're bending the rules almost to the point of breaking them or mapping safely within all the guidelines, I'll probably find something that needs to be changed.

jmaeshawn wrote:

The guidelines themselves are fine, the problem lies with BATs who make up guidelines based on their own personal preferences and refuse to bubble or rank a map due to those "guidelines".

I say that the guidelines should be stuck to and keep personal preferences (like whether a video is "ecchi" or not) out of the ranking process.
This is the only post that I really disagree with. Are you saying that BATs should never be subjective? Or just less subjective than they sometimes are? And for the "ecchi video" issue, that's even somewhat more objective. We want to keep osu! content at a certain age-appropriate level, so when something comes up that's borderline it shouldn't be surprising that there's controversy.
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose
I hate the stack leniency rule.
I'm pretty neutral on spinner +2000, but it should at least be 300-able.
I agree with "should have a normal/easy difficulty"

The problem with most of these "guidelines" is that they are enforced in a completely inconsistent manner.
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
To be honest, when modding a map you should be going through a checklist of all these guidelines, and for any where you can't tick it, asking yourself "does this seem correct? is the map better because of breaking this rule?".
K2J
872 posts
Here since the beginning
K2J
The problem is that one's own judgment usually isn't acceptable to the community at large. "Is this map more fun because of these jumps?" Well, for me, maybe. Probably not for the BATs - the people who hold the power, for better or worse. Same thing with art or music - you can compose a few notes or whatever, but there are standards for what is "good" music and what is "bad" music, which may depend on the community you apply for.

The hardest lesson I learned from mapping was that what you think is fun and what others think is fun can be very different. Since you're applying to rank a map for the purpose of getting other peoples' approval, you should already go in with a mindset to change things. If you like your map the way it is, just play it yourself.
Aoitenshi
711 posts
Joined February 2009
Aoitenshi
They're fine, that's all I can say.
YGOkid8
osu! Alumni
2,729 posts
Joined February 2009
YGOkid8
ranking criteria seems fine to me... so far >w<
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Fine to me.
Skyripper
osu! Alumni
1,016 posts
Joined August 2008
Skyripper
Also fine for me.
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