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Life Drain is a bit much for me.

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Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
i agree that life drain doesnt really have a home on rhythm games but once you get used to it you just accept it. i only fc'd that one recently and i dont think i was able to play that map when i was your rank... well, it was in ppv1 so maybe its different now... but yeah just practice and the maps with higher drain wont kill you because you wont mess up on them. simple as that. either that or nofail and i dont recommend that.

and your playcount is also abysmally low, i was still struggling to pass hards at that playcount let alone touching ar9 insanes. same reason your acc probably goes down so fast. that and you might be getting nervous, ive gone from 95 to 91% at the end of a map from nerves
Bomberdude
12 posts
Joined June 2014
Topic Starter
Bomberdude
Yeah, I hear you. I figured "practice" was the most obvious advice, and I know my playcount is low, but I'm pretty sure I just either got lucky or did the right thing with how I practiced, because as soon as I could even get close to a harder song, I went straight for it and let it hand my ass to me until I beat it.

Hell, that was my strategy with Airman [Hard], which I just recently beat. That thing whooped my ass a lot until I finally got precise and fast enough to beat it. And I'll probably do the same thing until I beat 4-star insanes, although fast AR on high BPM maps is my nightmare.

airman hard (the map i was talking about) - https://osu.ppy.sh/b/340104&m=2
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl
If you think 8 is bad, wait till you get to 10. I regularly drain out because of a few inopportune 100s.
El Koko
174 posts
Joined February 2013
El Koko

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

If you think 8 is bad, wait till you get to 10. I regularly drain out because of a few inopportune 100s.
true suffering when just a few 100's kill you, freaking drain
laref
48 posts
Joined September 2013
laref

Kokozord wrote:

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

If you think 8 is bad, wait till you get to 10. I regularly drain out because of a few inopportune 100s.
true suffering when just a few 100's kill you, freaking drain
Dying on the ending spinner is the worst feeling ever
GhostFrog
416 posts
Joined March 2013
GhostFrog
Drain sections are a part of this game. They have few notes, so you really shouldn't be missing any of them (how hard is it to hit one note every beat or two?). If you find that you're dying from missing 2 notes, either the map is way too hard for you that you're missing in the drain sections or your accuracy isn't good enough (i.e. you died because of the 10 straight 50s you got before missing the 2 notes, not because you missed those notes). Honestly, I'm not a fan of high hp drain either, but to say that "missing 2 notes causes instant failure" on that map is just making excuses.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl
I don't see any HR in your top ranks GhostFrog, so I think it's safe to say you have very limited experience with HP10. There are absolutely maps where two missed notes will fail you all on their own, and there are absolutely drain sections where missed gekis will fail you on their own. Such extreme situations are not the norm, but they happen, and they get more common as maps get slower and your play gets less accurate. OD10 HP10 is not a forgiving place.
Last edited by nrl , edited 2 times in total.
GhostFrog
416 posts
Joined March 2013
GhostFrog
That's all well and good, but this map is not HP10, nor OD10.

92.62%, 13 miss play

2 misses most certainly does not insta-fail you in this map, even with bad acc.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl
Yeah, I realized after I posted that you were probably referring to the OP, in which case I agree with you.
GhostFrog
416 posts
Joined March 2013
GhostFrog
Ah, okay. I should have made the first half of my post more clear.
timemon
Beatmap Nominator
1,305 posts
Joined November 2012
timemon
When I get too many 100's, my life get drained both in game and irl.
Bomberdude
12 posts
Joined June 2014
Topic Starter
Bomberdude
To GhostFrog:

The first thing I said was that I was bad at this game.
There are two arguments I have to make, though.

One: 13 misses TOTAL, not in a row for completion of that song. I found missing two notes almost entirely drained my HP bar, whereas missing one takes perhaps a third to half away, so it's 100% possible to miss more than two notes in the entire song and still pass.

Two: This is a 4 star map. Missing a couple notes should not immediately fail me on a 4-star map, I'd expect that out of something 5 stars or higher, but it just feels like this map uses HP drain as a cop-out for difficulty.

All HP drain really does is let the creator decide how hard they think their map is; and I feel like the creator has poorly judged the overall difficulty of the map, because there are a few sections in it where I miss a couple notes in succession and immediately fail, whereas the rest of the time I'm hitting solid 300s with a few 100s strewn about.

And of course I'm making excuses, nobody LIKES to admit that they're complete shit, but that's what I took the time to do as the FIRST statement in my post to avoid people saying "dont make excuses you suck".
GhostFrog
416 posts
Joined March 2013
GhostFrog
I agree that the drain in that map is higher than is warranted, but I missed 3 straight notes in that replay (and 2 straight notes 3 times, I think) and didn't fail. The problem you're having isn't that you're missing 2 notes and losing your entire health bar and that's why I said you're making excuses. You're either missing easy notes (notes in drain sections), which I doubt, or your accuracy is killing you. That is to say: the problem isn't the thing that you can't deny to yourself that you have a problem with (i.e. missing 2 notes); the problem is something subjective that you're making excuses in order to not believe (your accuracy isn't good enough).

If you weren't looking for people to tell you what to improve, I don't really see what the point of your post was anyway? Did you make this thread to call out one specific map as being a bad map? Turn on nofail and just have fun with it if you hate the drain so much that you made this thread just to complain about it.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
FlyingKebab
Play maps above your skill level with NF and try to enjoy yourself.

Just my 2 cents

EDIT: Because my first 300 plays were NF 4....5....6 Insane maps and now i play the occasional "Everything Will Freeze [Freezing] (6,7 Star AR10 cluster **** with NF, because i just love getting destroyed but see my accuracy go up by 1 to a few% on similar maps afterwards

EDIT2: 240BPM streams are just so flashy to do <3
Sophia
266 posts
Joined December 2013
Sophia
This is a rhythm game and you're getting punished for having bad accuracy.
I don't see how that's an issue.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl
GhostFrog makes some good points, but I'd like to point out that it's also quite likely that the density of the map (or lack thereof) is allowing your life to sit below full for extended periods of time due to the drain, and this is what's allowing you to instant-fail yourself with two misses.

But in all reality, it's probably a combination of the two. As you get better you'll wonder why this was ever a problem.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
HP OD 10 sounds harsh. I always die from drain at OD10, but I think that's reasonable since I get like 50% 100s
On normal maps sometimes I get annoyed at drain at slow sections making me fail, but I think in most cases if you are in risk of dying from drain you're not going to be setting that amazing of a score anyway.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

B1rd wrote:

I think in most cases if you are in risk of dying from drain you're not going to be setting that amazing of a score anyway.
Depends what you consider an amazing score. There are definitely maps where a few missed gekis (not even misses, just a few badly placed 100s) can fail an otherwise perfect play, and on low density maps all it really takes is a string of 100s to deal irreparable damage. I've failed without missing a note plenty of times.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

B1rd wrote:

I think in most cases if you are in risk of dying from drain you're not going to be setting that amazing of a score anyway.
Depends what you consider an amazing score. There are definitely maps where a few missed gekis (not even misses, just a few badly placed 100s) can fail an otherwise perfect play, and on low density maps all it really takes is a string of 100s to deal irreparable damage. I've failed without missing a note plenty of times.
well my statement applies to the maps I play, just no-mod insanes mainly. Are there really any 'normal' maps with that much drain?
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl
Depends what you consider normal. I doubt there are very many maps sitting at HP10 OD10 no-mod.
Mystrian_old
149 posts
Joined November 2013
Mystrian_old

Dm1321 wrote:

This is a rhythm game and you're getting punished for having bad accuracy.
I don't see how that's an issue.
Play maps with "perfect" mod.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
Stop playing songs you obviously can't do and it won't be a problem.

I used to complain about drain too, and then I improved. Just accept the fact that if you're doing terrible on the song then you can't consider it a pass, and simply either play an easier map or use no-fail mod.

Hardly any map fails you when you miss 2 notes, and when it does, you're most likely on hr with 70% acc on a slow section.

Riince wrote:

i agree that life drain doesnt really have a home on rhythm games
Use no-fail mod? Chances are if you're dying to life drain your score is low enough to not matter - so if your score isn't in the top50 then it really doesn't matter if you use it or not.

Mystrian wrote:

Dm1321 wrote:

This is a rhythm game and you're getting punished for having bad accuracy.
I don't see how that's an issue.
Play maps with "perfect" mod.
Except it's not as extreme, and the hp drain gives plenty of room for mistakes.

Mappers set hp drain to scale with difficulty. Don't like it? Force yourself to use no-fail and pass "ERMAHGERD HIGH DRAIN PLS UNRANK" maps with D's and C's to give yourself a false sense of achievement, or rebel and don't make any scores on those maps.



On a side note, improve accuracy simply by being smart on what you play and focusing more on beats. More indepth guides are stickied in this forum.


Oh, and also:

Bomberdude wrote:

I'm not very good, but I know when missing 2 notes causes instant failure, your map isn't hard; it's unreasonably punishing.
Not all maps are forgiving, do you expect a cookiezi and hot chocolate each time you miss?
If you think about it from the other side of the spectra, the map is perfectly normal and other maps are unreasonably forgiving
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

buny wrote:

Use no-fail mod? Chances are if you're dying to life drain your score is low enough to not matter - so if your score isn't in the top50 then it really doesn't matter if you use it or not.
i think you're misinterpreting my post. i just don't think life drain belongs in a rhythm game. no other rhythm games have it because it's fucking stupid, not that im dying.

also, i could SS this with DT and still fail because i cant spin 400 rpm for 50 seconds. drain really is dumb sometimes.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/24611
sasakura
42 posts
Joined February 2014
sasakura
HP drain rate is too cruel :(
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

Riince wrote:

i just don't think life drain belongs in a rhythm game. no other rhythm games have it because it's fucking stupid, not that im dying.
Are you complaining about life bars in general, or the fact that osu!'s life bar passively drains? Because most rhythm games have a life bar of some sort, and the addition of drain literally doesn't mean anything more than a slight difficulty increase. There's very little that's inherently different, from the player's perspective, about a life bar that drains itself over time.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

Riince wrote:

i just don't think life drain belongs in a rhythm game. no other rhythm games have it because it's fucking stupid, not that im dying.
Are you complaining about life bars in general, or the fact that osu!'s life bar passively drains? Because most rhythm games have a life bar of some sort, and the addition of drain literally doesn't mean anything more than a slight difficulty increase. There's very little that's inherently different, from the player's perspective, about a life bar that drains itself over time.
the drain aspect is silly.
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii
I, for one, actually support the passive life drain, but mainly because I was a player of the original Ouendan/EBA games. The drain is meant to add tension and difficulty during slow and otherwise boring parts, and is part of the reason why passing maps in those games was so satisfying. Sure, there are situations in osu! where this causes problems (see: every map that is impossible to pass on HR due to lifedrain), but it is part of what makes the game, and I'd prefer to keep it that way.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
you guys haven't really looked at it from the mapper's perspective either. Honestly, depending on the map is mapped, the drain will work really well in the mapper's opinion for certain sections, but end up being harsh or insanely lenient on certain other sections. Sometimes, you can't do anything about it because that's the way osu! automatically decided the drain to be. Either make it too easy or too hard. Generally it goes on the too hard side of the spectrum, nor do people really realize anything when it's "too easy."

And drain starts to matter less the better you get. Honestly it's something you get over. And trust me, the drain is not as bad you think. Even HP 10 I find perfectly fine (when using HR). And anyway, easier maps have extremely low drain so that the map isn't overly harsh on new players. As you get experienced, things aren't supposed to be easy anymore.

And drain is never so harsh that you will die in 2 misses immediately (2 notes close together, like a 1/2 tick apart). Sometimes with HP 10,you might miss twice, then reach a drain section and die, but never in 2 misses immediately. Someone can prove me wrong though if they can find a map where this happens.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

winber1 wrote:

And drain is never so harsh that you will die in 2 misses immediately (2 notes close together, like a 1/2 tick apart). Sometimes with HP 10,you might miss twice, then reach a drain section and die, but never in 2 misses immediately. Someone can prove me wrong though if they can find a map where this happens.
It's not possible to go from full to fail with two misses, but it's possible to fail from as little as a missed slider start coming out o a drain section.

Riince wrote:

the drain aspect is silly.
All the drain does is force you to have better accuracy where you should already have better accuracy and punish you a bit more for bad accuracy. It's like complaining about the hit window on slider starts, it doesn't affect how you play at all.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
I think drain is a good mechanic. it'd be boring if everyone could do all the hardest songs, just with low accuracy. And it also is good for accuracy I think, when I play really hard songs at 6 or 7 HP, it makes me have to try as hard as I can not to miss the notes, or I will die of the drain.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
the issue isnt you lose hp when you fk up but just the PASSIVE drain. get fucked on parts with no notes or long spinners [RIP my 650x combo of Shotgun Senorita, you will be missed. spinners are gay.]
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl
It's the same as having higher penalties for inaccuracy. When it comes right down to it you're just complaining about the difficulty.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

It's the same as having higher penalties for inaccuracy. When it comes right down to it you're just complaining about the difficulty.
can YOU pass this? https://osu.ppy.sh/s/24611

if not, is it because of the 'difficulty'? i don't think so since the map was a bit hard but not a struggle for me, probably boring for you.
heybrosup
18 posts
Joined April 2013
heybrosup

Riince wrote:

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

It's the same as having higher penalties for inaccuracy. When it comes right down to it you're just complaining about the difficulty.
can YOU pass this? https://osu.ppy.sh/s/24611

if not, is it because of the 'difficulty'? i don't think so since the map hard but not a struggle for me, probably boring for you.

that's pretty much the only case, and the very few songs with long spinners+high life drain, at least 99% of time it's due to the difficulty of the song (missing, bad accuracy, etc)
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1

Riince wrote:

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

It's the same as having higher penalties for inaccuracy. When it comes right down to it you're just complaining about the difficulty.
can YOU pass this? https://osu.ppy.sh/s/24611

if not, is it because of the 'difficulty'? i don't think so since the map was a bit hard but not a struggle for me, probably boring for you.
it's not really the passive drain's fault. honestly, who the hell would have thought and planned for someone to make like a 30 second spinner like wat. And passive drain is like a pretty crucial part of the game. osu! does a good job in calculating the drain, though some exceptions may be present.

Anyway, the rest of the maps plays really well, and as I said earlier, it's generally those few parts in the song where you just can't help it but let it be like that. The mapper doesn't really have much of a choice.

I guess you could technically feature request a suggestion to allow mappers to change HP drain difficulty using inherited timing sections lol, but that seems so pointless on so many levels for almost everything.
timemon
Beatmap Nominator
1,305 posts
Joined November 2012
timemon
I want to learn HR but I have to NFHR every time :(
Yeah I do get horrible acc with HR but sometimes I want to pass HR without NF.
91% acc and I still run out of HP ;w;
EcoArtz
5 posts
Joined June 2017
EcoArtz
.
Last edited by EcoArtz , edited 1 time in total.
Sandy Hoey
3,605 posts
Joined October 2015
Sandy Hoey
You still lose health over time and if you don't get 300. How much and how fast depends on the HP of the map
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
Our life force is draining away day by day, us being transient beings helpless before the inexorable march of time, as we head towards our final destination 6 feet under.
kai99
1,123 posts
Joined July 2013
kai99
my life is draining away
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