Hello! After the massive success from my earlier RC Proposal loosening up the drain time requirements, I've concluded that after consulting several individuals, both mappers and players, that a second step of fully adopting mania's RC would be beneficial to catch's ecosystem of maps.

Why do we need this change?

Currently, although the first step of the change by reducing drain time requirements allowed a whole new influx of 4-5 minute long maps, the 2:30-4:00 area still is COMPLETELY drained of any maps at the highest level. There is a *SINGLE* 8.02 star map (beatmapsets/2053483#fruits/4289411) that represents all the maps between 2:30 and 4:00 at over 8 stars. This has left all top players above the rank of ~100 playing either marathons, or short 2 minute sdvx songs. There is a HUGE lack of variety at the top level.

This can be easily solved by adopting mania's spread RC.

What is the change?

If the drain time of each difficulty is...
...lower than 2:30, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Salad.
...between 2:30 and 3:15, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Platter.
...between 3:15 and 4:00, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Rain.

to

...lower than 2:30 must either include a difficulty at Salad or lower, or provide a proper spread containing at least 4 difficulties.
...between 2:30 and 3:15 must either include a difficulty at Platter or lower, or provide a proper spread containing at least 3 difficulties.
...between 3:15 and 4:00 must either include a difficulty at Rain or lower, or provide a proper spread containing at least 2 difficulties.

What are the pros and cons?

Pros:

- More higher SR maps being ranked between the 2:30-4:00 drain time length, as instead of needing atleast 5-6 difficulties currently, you'd need only 2-4 MAXIMUM.

- More middle level difficulties for ALL drain times. This creates more situations in where previously, people wouldnt try to even rank certain songs because of drain time lengths. While this has already been remedied slightly with the previous change, this will only grow further.

- More gimmicky mapsets being pushed to rank. Instead of needing a huge spread for a gimmicky solo diff (think NM3 type CWC maps, you wouldn't need as many difficulties. This would make making a suitable spread alot easier, aswell as probably being able to keep that same gimmick within the difficulty spread.

- More freedom of choice for BNs to choose which maps they are going to push. With this change, a plethora of maps and songs previously thought unavailable due to spread requirements will be mapped. I believe this will bring alot of life to the ranking environment, similar to how after the previous RC was changed, alot of 4:01-4:59 solo diffs were ranked that otherwise would NEVER have been.

Cons:

- Less lower SR maps. This is probably the biggest, and really only con that I could think of. Except I believe that the impact will be alot more negligible than people think. This was also the same con that people thought of with the previous RC change. How did that turn out? In a large majority of cases, instead of opting to "not make spreads" anymore, I believe we ended up with a net positive of maps, aswell as overall higher quality lower difficulties especially in the platter-rain area. We ended up filling a pretty large gap of 2-4 minute platter/rains, by the fact that they too were also allowed to be ranked as their own difficulties.

Ofcourse this would be exaggerated by the fact that, with this new proposal, you could in theory make a TV Size set of only "Overdoses" (albeit it would be pretty hard, its not as easy to abuse: see next paragraph). Looking at mania, the amount of people who chose to make these sets is alot lower than the amount of people who use the change in the more intended way.

Whats stopping people from just making 4 overdoses for every set and calling it a day?

Mania's RC has a neat little clause preventing this in most cases.

A "proper" spread for difficulties Insane and harder is defined as a spread with gaps in difficulty similar to those between lower difficulty levels as specified in the difficulty-specific criteria.


To put this into simpler terms, you can NOT have a spread consisting of 4 similar difficulty overdoses to make your tv size map rankable. There would NEED to be a notable gap in difficulty between EACH difficulty, similar to the gaps between the already defined difficulties. This would typically result in needing approximately a 1-1.3 star gap between difficulties (I know the SR system isn't perfect, but this is assuming the average map)

Ofcourse, this still sometimes in mania where they still manage to do that. And you know what I would think personally? Thats ok. If that is the cost of getting more higher end ranked maps, so be it. There is a plethora of lower SR maps already ranked in the game, that by the time a person would end up playing all of these maps anyways, they would undoubtedly be at a skill level where the slightly lower amount of lower SR maps wouldn't matter anymore.

The playerbase needs this change, as the current "meta" of mapping high SR maps is literally just pick a 4 minute song, or just dont do it at all (unless its for a tournament, in which case it gets graveyarded, then loved in 2 years because the mapper abandoned it)

TLDR; Allowing maps to form a "Proper Spread" of difficulties starting at any difficulty level, rather than forcing this spread to be started at a Salad, Platter, or Rain.

Thank you for reading! All feedback is appreciated. I truly believe after seeing the effect this has had on Mania to be the correct path towards the future. All questions feel free to either ask me in the modding/mapping hub, dm on discord/here, or post in this thread!

As someone who comes from mania, I don't think anyone would want to go back to the old system. Obviously catch is not mania, so in practice it will be different, but I still think it'd be an amazing change!

+1

highly agree with this proposal, and with all the points brought up by secre.
overall this seems like a very positive change for the mode with barely any impactful drawbacks

+1

I disagree. Catch already has an issue of no low difficulties and lax marathon requirements. The majority of the playerbase is in the Platter-Rain level (me included). In theory this will cater towards high skilled players and low-motivation mappers, while only making the new player experience worse. Catch is the community with the least player engagement. Should focus on growing it, not consolidating around the top skill players. The group of top skill players won’t grow from this change, only perhaps decay slower.

I think the con of marathon maps is because of how catch’s performance point system fundamentally works, where a single miss will take upwards of 50% of the performance points. Not many in the platter/rain level are playing them because of that. But maybe thats off-topic

I’ve had the personal experience in mania’s system of finding songs that are engaging, but because of the new spread requirements don’t contain difficulties that a casual player like me can play. beatmapsets/1932403#mania/4065664

tatatat wrote:

I disagree. Catch already has an issue of no low difficulties and lax marathon requirements. The majority of the playerbase is in the Platter-Rain level (me included). In theory this will cater towards high skilled players and low-motivation mappers, while only making the new player experience worse. Catch is the community with the least player engagement. Should focus on growing it, not consolidating around the top skill players. The group of top skill players won’t grow from this change, only perhaps decay slower.

We do not have an issue of no low difficulties, I don't know what information you're basing this off of, but its false.

This will not completely kill off low difficulties, as they would still be made, especially for the majority of songs that new players would generally gravitate towards. Most players easily skip the cup-salad levels, and like you said end up staying around the platter-rain areas. I still believe that currently, even assuming no more ranked platters/rains (there will still be plenty), that a player can easily get to overdose+ level with the maps available to them now. The amount of difficulties that would be "lost" with this change is completely negligible, as instead of losing out on difficulties, the general outcome would instead just be gaining higher end difficulties instead.

I also don't understand your point about the low motivation mappers, as this would just get rid of the difficulties they have low motivation for (the lower diffs) while allowing them to actually put their effort into what they care about. Wouldn't this result in an overall higher quality of all maps?

Agreed!
We have enough of low diffs. Previous change shows it didn't discourage mappers from mapping them. Also Some songs are calmer so they won't be mapped as high sr - doesn't affect the balance, even improves it. This highly encourages me to map more high sr maps (copium), as I wasn't really able to rank much before.

tl;dr LET HIM COOK

Secre wrote:

We do not have an issue of no low difficulties, I don't know what information you're basing this off of, but its false.

When I go to play maps I notice a general trend towards only Overdose and higher marathons (30-50% probably?). But perhaps this wouldn’t change that at all. Well actually almost certainly. Perhaps its more of a trend towards marathons in general.

Secre wrote:

I also don't understand your point about the low motivation mappers, as this would just get rid of the difficulties they have low motivation for (the lower diffs) while allowing them to actually put their effort into what they care about. Wouldn't this result in an overall higher quality of all maps?

Yes, but in difficulties the majority of the community won’t be able to play. Thats how I see it at least

Secre wrote:

I also don't understand your point about the low motivation mappers, as this would just get rid of the difficulties they have low motivation for (the lower diffs) while allowing them to actually put their effort into what they care about. Wouldn't this result in an overall higher quality of all maps?

tatatat wrote:

Yes, but in difficulties the majority of the community won’t be able to play. Thats how I see it at least

This would effect low difficulties more than any, due to removing the worse "filler" ones that people currently map for spread, and replacing them with the more high quality ones made out of passion.

As someone who maps and plays mania, I so agree with this change. I think it would be definitely cool to have this change over in catch!

+1 from me

idk man this just sounds like ur trying to prioritise end game maps for the sake of focusing on a select few players when the constant stream of new players who are way slower at learning are discouraged because they don't have many maps to choose from

there are already plenty of end game maps ranked and loved already for top players to try and practise on so i don't see the point of this change, this is pointless

if people want to make a high star on a shorter map, make a proper spread and don't be lazy

-1

tatatat I disagree with you but I don't have data to proof my point, but at least consider this.

When we talk about new player experience, most of the time that I've seen, they will prefer to play shorter maps compared to longer maps. I don't know if it's just coincidence because short maps are more popular, but from my own personal empirical experience, new players tend to play more shorter maps compared to longer ones.

A good threshold imo is the rhythm game size (~2:00min drain time) and this proposal is already bigger than that, ~2:30. Also would be great to see this aprooved because if this eventually happens in ctb, alongside mania, it probably spark the discussion in taiko and std as well.

+1

+1 more leniency very good

for starters im pretty sure tata is either not fully aware of the massive amount of mapsets with low difficulties being mapped that are getting ranked nowadays, or is simply catastrophizing out of a fear of change
arguing that beginners will be left with no easier content to play with just bc of this proposal getting approved is very disingenuous and deliberately making blind eyes to all the mapsets that have and will continue to get ranked aimed for players of all skill levels (bc as it turns out, not everyone knows how to map ballsbustingly hard overdoses of good quality, and said people will have better luck mapping easier things)

catch doesn't have "an issue" of lax marathon requirements, the issue was how strict they used to be, rendering the entire spectrum of songs going from 3 minutes to anything below 5 incredibly stagnant because very few people wanted to bother mapping songs of those lengths due to the inherent effort requirement from both mapper and modders/bns alike that wasn't offset by any leniency in spread requirements

now a lot more 4 minute maps have been ranked thanks to the "more lax" drain requirements for marathons, and to me that is a net positive

if you're arguing for the prospect that this change might incentivize laziness then you've clearly not seen the results of the last passed proposal in terms of ranked section activity, so i invite you to do so and then reformulate your thoughts accordingly


as for me, i agree with this proposal, if nothing else because it allows further flexibility when it comes to what kinds of spreads are made possible, which in my book is always good since the additional freedom allows people further chances at expressing their potential creativity and taste in songs they like, without having to worry about whether or not the drain time of the song will require them to map an uninspired set of difficulties for spread purposes

my argument against those who might disagree with the proposal is that you have to make sure you're not missing the forest for the individual trees: allowing this proposal to pass will not singlehandedly cause a paradigm shift in how the ranked section looks, simply because what is in the section and what isn't is controlled by mappers and modders alike.
what I mean by this is, at the end of the day, the ones responsible for making prudent use of the new allowances the new proposal offers are ultimately us. If at any point the scenario where "a lack of beginner friendly difficulties" comes to happen (it most likely won't, since there are mappers who enjoy and are dedicated to mapping easier spreads), I'm 100% sure there will be efforts made to make that not be a problem.

+1

Net0 wrote:

tatatat I disagree with you but I don't have data to proof my point, but at least consider this.

When we talk about new player experience, most of the time that I've seen, they will prefer to play shorter maps compared to longer maps. I don't know if it's just coincidence because short maps are more popular, but from my own personal empirical experience, new players tend to play more shorter maps compared to longer ones.

A good threshold imo is the rhythm game size (~2:00min drain time) and this proposal is already bigger than that, ~2:30. Also would be great to see this aprooved because if this eventually happens in ctb, alongside mania, it probably spark the discussion in taiko and std as well.

+1

I do the same in catch but ONLY because of how catch’s scoring/performance system is setup. Playing anything longer than 2 minutes guarantees that my score is going to be worthless. Why bother? Not that way in taiko/mania. But it is what it is.


Also I seriously hope this doesn’t happen in taiko. There is a very very low barrier to entry for low difficulty creation in taiko. Takes minutes. Would be net negative.

edit: As a player I would love to play rain marathons, if the gamemode actually supported it.

BIG H ZONDA KIT wrote:

idk man this just sounds like ur trying to prioritise end game maps for the sake of focusing on a select few players when the constant stream of new players who are way slower at learning are discouraged because they don't have many maps to choose from

there are already plenty of end game maps ranked and loved already for top players to try and practise on so i don't see the point of this change, this is pointless

if people want to make a high star on a shorter map, make a proper spread and don't be lazy

-1

I want to redirect you to the amount of high SR maps specifically within the range of 2:30 and 4:00. (with NM)

The most pp you can gain is 850 from verti's fin arc dear in this range. This is a negligible amount of pp, and is the MOST you can gain from a whole entire length range.

850 pp to a top 50~ player is nearly meaningless, giving single digit values. To a top 20 player, it gives 1-2 pp..

The real "cutoff" starts at about 750 pp, theres only a handful between 750-850. 750 pp to a top 100 player, is, again, nearly meaningless.

There are not any endgame maps ranked between this draintime range, and this is an attempt to alleviate some of the struggles with ranking these maps.

ok but people are still too lazy to create and push the gap i don't think catch mappers need restrictions lifted even more than they need to be to fulfil this goal just encourage bns to be more open to spreads like that or smth and then more of them will keep coming

Disagree I think it is more important to open the mod to newer player than just make an elistist game. Newer player are the futur of this game don’t if people want to make more higher SR people just have to not be lazy

-1

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LAZYNESS WHY IS LAZYNESS A COUNTERARGUMENT WHAT IS WRONG WITH MORE FLEXIBILITY IN TERMS OF THE BEATMAP RANKING PROCESS LOWER DIFFS ARE NOT GOING TO DISSAPEAR FROM EXISTENCE

Secre I think as a top player your opinion might be biased towards those of your skill level. Please remember us noobs

tatatat wrote:

edit: As a player I would love to play rain marathons, if the gamemode actually supported it.

might i kindly point you towards the absolute entirety of 5 minute long rains available today?

iscariot no sakebi, paranoid lost, go 4 it, i could go on

Bastian wrote:

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LAZYNESS WHY IS LAZYNESS A COUNTERARGUMENT WHAT IS WRONG WITH MORE FLEXIBILITY IN TERMS OF THE BEATMAP RANKING PROCESS LOWER DIFFS ARE NOT GOING TO DISSAPEAR FROM EXISTENCE

why else do u think that nobody is making 2-3 minute 8-9* spreads anymore? because mappers cannot be bothered to make them and host them in the first place

Hareimu wrote:

tatatat wrote:

edit: As a player I would love to play rain marathons, if the gamemode actually supported it.

might i kindly point you towards the absolute entirety of 5 minute long rains available today?

iscariot no sakebi, paranoid lost, go 4 it, i could go on

Yes… but playing those difficulties as a rain level player isn’t enjoyable. Because the play will end up in the garbage. Less experienced players will make more mistakes, gets compounded over longer drain times. Miss ONCE, your play is cooked

why are people catastrophizing and playing ignorance to the current state so badly

tatatat wrote:

Yes… but playing those difficulties as a rain level player isn’t enjoyable. Because the play will end up in the garbage. Less experienced players will make more mistakes, gets compounded over longer drain times. Miss ONCE, your play is cooked

complain about that to the people handling the pp system then, not to us lmfao
what does that have to do with the proposal

plus if you're only a rain player your plays are still worth proper pp tf are you yapping about XD
unless you already starting moving onto overdoses and those are giving you pp and burying your rain plays, thats just inherent of rank progression as a whole, of course youre not going to get as much pp out of a rain as you do anything higher, longer rains arent going to remedy that if they're the same star rating as shorter ones

this proposal only goes to help mappers who prefer to map really hard difficulties to get their maps ranked easier, there's no need to always force easy difficulties. there are plenty of mappers like me who prefer to have easier difficulty spreads as well like some typical ENHIX spreads and this change won't be changing anything for these types of maps at all

Hareimu wrote:

why are people catastrophizing and playing ignorance to the current state so badly

tatatat wrote:

Yes… but playing those difficulties as a rain level player isn’t enjoyable. Because the play will end up in the garbage. Less experienced players will make more mistakes, gets compounded over longer drain times. Miss ONCE, your play is cooked

complain about that to the people handling the pp system then, not to us lmfao
what does that have to do with the proposal

You brought it up 🤷‍♂️ I believe thats the reason why engagement is low for those types of maps.

tatatat wrote:

Hareimu wrote:

tatatat wrote:

edit: As a player I would love to play rain marathons, if the gamemode actually supported it.

might i kindly point you towards the absolute entirety of 5 minute long rains available today?

iscariot no sakebi, paranoid lost, go 4 it, i could go on

Yes… but playing those difficulties as a rain level player isn’t enjoyable. Because the play will end up in the garbage. Less experienced players will make more mistakes, gets compounded over longer drain times. Miss ONCE, your play is cooked

But this has nothing to do with this proposal then? Are you saying we shouldn't rank any low difficulty marathons because no one at that level can consistently play that difficulty for too long anyways? Doesn't this proposal only help this argument because "now those maps aren't made"?

Edit: also playing doesn't have to all be about pp... Why should a map be useless if it doesn't give you any pp? Isn't that just your way of playing?

tatatat wrote:

You brought it up 🤷‍♂️ I believe thats the reason why engagement is low for those types of maps.

and that equates to the gamemode not supporting longer rains how...?

players are also lazy too you know, if they dont wanna play a 3-4 minute rain thats entirely their choice, and for the record those are actually worth more pp than shorter ones because the same level of difficulty patterning-wise extends across a longer draintime, inherently increasing the difficulty compared to a 2 minute map of the same bpm and same general difficulty

for the record if its any precedent, osu standard is getting their pp system changed to no longer scale pp on misses at lower/higher combo counter, so there's nothing stopping that same change from coming to the way catch's system functions

Unlike osu!standard, osu!catch can get lower difficulties from converts, so if players want to learn the game, “not having lower diffs” will not be a problem. There are already plenty of lower diffs in this game that accumulated since 2013, and most ctb players will agree that in order to learn basic dash control and platter control, converts do a better job than most cups and salads.

Look at the people online for ctb. The most active player rank range is definitely the 3 digits, despite the fact that there are more people that are 4 digit. Going lower into ranks (aka. 5,6 digit territory), the people who play lower diffs such as cups or salads are almost non-existent. From my years of talking to new players, most players who play ctb go through the following:

Play osu!std -> try ctb through converts -> play converts-> try platters and rains-> improve. I can certainly say that majority of players will not spend much time in the lower difficulties, and I find it odd that people are this concerned about not having lower diffs. Focus more on the player base that plays this game. Give them more content. This is not elitism; it’s focusing and giving back to the players who keep this game alive. There are plentiful ways for new players to learn the game rather than playing cups and salads.

Tldr; good point secre. I agree with your proposal.

hareimus poetry goes hard

also as a player i don't care how it is achieved, but i'd love to see more maps in that range as the 2min or 5min nm gacha is getting annoying

so +1

ps secre plz fix pp

Love this proposal, we have so few short 8*+ in general compared to marathons like you said already.

I don't think it would neglect lower difficulties since we have a good chunk of mappers that like to focus on lower difficulties, and we do already have a lot of lower diffs so I don't see the issue.

+1

GiGas wrote:

Unlike osu!standard, osu!catch can get lower difficulties from converts, so if players want to learn the game, “not having lower diffs” will not be a problem. There are already plenty of lower diffs in this game that accumulated since 2013, and most ctb players will agree that in order to learn basic dash control and platter control, converts do a better job than most cups and salads.

I don't think converts between one gamemode and another fully come to be relevant to this because then a similar argument can be made for standard converts into osu!mania, and trust me newer mania players dont get started on the game by playing converts

the reason why newer catch players dont play cups and salads as much is bc the two are oftentimes, and pardon the phrasing, fucking boring to play
and i say this as both a player and mapper of them that has engaged with both difficulty levels since i started playing the game, it's incredibly clear that both difficulty levels are stagnant af bc they lack the spice and slight unpredictability converts can offer (aka cups dont introduce simple dashes, salads dont introduce simple hyperdashes, etc etc)

but thats a completely different topic for another day

fact of the matter is those two difficulties are and will continue to be mapped into the foreseeable future even if this proposal passes bc theres people who enjoy making them and people who enjoy playing them, so people arguing against it from that front are being deliberately contrarian lol

About time you finally proposed this lol

i dont really see any issue with this proposal

nothing is being removed, they are just additions to the existing current ranking criteria
cups and salads aren't going away.. this proposal just makes it easier to shift the focus from the abundance of cups/salads we already have to more longer and higher sr maps, when there is barely anything in that case

some people enjoy playing and mapping lower difficulties and that's completely okay, but it's not like lower difficulties are gonna be completely gone from most spreads.

it does not take long for a player to get out of the cup and salad difficulty, and even then if those do "run out" (which they won't) you still have converts that play like specifics as Mniam said.

as Secre stated, it only gets better if this proposal gets added, as many maps are able to be ranked now with this new proposal, it is extremely annoying to have to make multiple difficulties of a map that is just below the drain time criteria

tl;dr: thank u secre

+1

@Hareimu

I believe that mania and CTB converts serve a different purpose. Osu! Mania players typically come into the game with prior mania experience, as compared to CTB where it's a whole new game mode you have to learn. Mania converts typically play bad (from my understanding) meanwhile CTB converts in earlier stages serve a good purpose (As mentioned earlier, dash control and platter placement skills are better learned from playing converts). I think this point is relevant to this topic as from the general gist of people who disagree with Secre's proposal, they are saying that cups and salads as basically essential for new players to learn the game, which I disagree with.

But you are right about the fact that this is a topic for a different day. We both agree that this proposal is good and I think that's all it matters for now.

I agree with this proposal. I think the new players have enough maps. We need more high sr maps that aren't systematically marathons.

Otherwise, if a set doesn't have enough low difficulties, 80% of the time, you can go and get the convert of the same music with simpler difficulties.

+1

i cant play anything past high 6* cuz noob so i hate endgame mapping but if this means i can make iix sets or ixx then thats probably a good thing


low diffs in catch are fake. alot of ppl including myself only play this gamemode because i was interested in osu standard and i clicked around and saw my converted maps can be played in a fruit catching minigame

Passion mapping
+1

yeah this is extremely benefical. in this instance, it's much easier to focus on quality then rather than quantity especially for higher star rating maps which require a lot of tedious mapping and rhythm selection

+1

This will brought a lot more pros than cons and I do think that the cons is very small, I support this change

+1

i like hard maps

+1

To those saying there will be less star-rated difficulties; let's do some calculations!

I have 99%-100% of ranked catch maps, so I will be using "~" since I'm not claiming it to be 100% accurate due to osu being weird with it's database showing maps. However, it's probably 99.9% accurate nonetheless.

Now that I have that out of the way, here are the numbers.

Below 1 Star: 32~
1 Star: 1,603~
2 Stars: 1,989~
3 Stars: 1,608~
4 Stars: 1,503~
5 Stars: 1,079~
6 Stars: 473~
7 Stars: 166~
8 Stars: 63~
9 Stars: 24~
10 Stars: 6~
11 Stars: 1~

Total ranked maps: 8,547~

Now, there are 7,814~ ranked maps that are 5.99 stars or LESS, accounting for 91.4%~ of all ranked maps.

This means that generally speaking, you can play all the way up to beginner overdose maps being 5 stars and you have 91% of the content of the ranked map section.

Want to play 6 stars and above? Now you can only play 8.6% of the total ranked section.

6 star maps generally give you 400 - 699~ pp, depending on drain time and if it's closer to 7 stars.

Want to be a top 100 player? You basically play 7 stars or above; more often than not, more like 7.5 and above. For simplicity sake though, let's just go with 7 stars.
That totals to 262~ ranked beatmaps in total; equating to a THREE PERCENT.
3%.~

Let's now do some more calculations. Let us now include the parameter "length<=210" meaning, all songs now shown are going to be 3 minutes and 30 seconds or less.
We will also show the percentage difference from the total number.

Below 1 Star: 31~; -3%~
1 Star: 1,542~; -4%~
2 Stars: 1,854~; -7%~
3 Stars: 1,349~; -16%~
4 Stars: 1,173~; -22%~
5 Stars: 756~; -30%~
6 Stars: 256~; -46%~
7 Stars: 68~; -61%~
8 Stars: 13~; -80%~
9 Stars: 9~; -62%~
10 Stars: 2~; -66%~
11 Stars: 0~; -100%~

So what does this tell us? the numbers show the second we get to 7 stars and above, on average, you lose about 73.8% of maps, and if we take out the one 11 star map, you lose about 67.25% of maps on average.
What is 67% of 262? 175 beatmaps lost, bringing that grand total of maps of 7 stars and above that are less than 3 minutes and 30 seconds long to 87 beatmaps!

Wow. 87 beatmaps, (well 87 - the one 11 star so 86). There are literally less than 100 beatmaps that are shorter than 3 and half minutes. Sounds like a lot of fun to farm in the endgame ranked section!

All this to say, this is why there needs to be a change. There is a a MASSIVE disparity between the amount of ranked maps of higher star rating beatmaps and 5 star and lower.

+1.

edit: 7 stars and above that are equal or less than 3:30 have 92 in total.

glad someone took the time to gather the hard numbers to depict the scene as it is instead of speaking out of their ass

thank you

.

Trent wrote:

To those saying there will be less star-rated difficulties; let's do some calculations!

I have 99%-100% of ranked catch maps, so I will be using "~" since I'm not claiming it to be 100% accurate due to osu being weird with it's database showing maps. However, it's probably 99.9% accurate nonetheless.

Now that I have that out of the way, here are the numbers.

Below 1 Star: 32~
1 Star: 1,603~
2 Stars: 1,989~
3 Stars: 1,608~
4 Stars: 1,503~
5 Stars: 1,079~
6 Stars: 473~
7 Stars: 166~
8 Stars: 63~
9 Stars: 24~
10 Stars: 6~
11 Stars: 1~

Total ranked maps: 8,547~

Now, there are 7,814~ ranked maps that are 5.99 stars or LESS, accounting for 91.4%~ of all ranked maps.

This means that generally speaking, you can play all the way up to beginner overdose maps being 5 stars and you have 91% of the content of the ranked map section.

Want to play 6 stars and above? Now you can only play 8.6% of the total ranked section.

6 star maps generally give you 400 - 699~ pp, depending on drain time and if it's closer to 7 stars.

Want to be a top 100 player? You basically play 7 stars or above; more often than not, more like 7.5 and above. For simplicity sake though, let's just go with 7 stars.
That totals to 262~ ranked beatmaps in total; equating to a THREE PERCENT.
3%.~

Let's now do some more calculations. Let us now include the parameter "length<=210" meaning, all songs now shown are going to be 3 minutes and 30 seconds or less.
We will also show the percentage difference from the total number.

Below 1 Star: 31~; -3%~
1 Star: 1,542~; -4%~
2 Stars: 1,854~; -7%~
3 Stars: 1,349~; -16%~
4 Stars: 1,173~; -22%~
5 Stars: 756~; -30%~
6 Stars: 256~; -46%~
7 Stars: 68~; -61%~
8 Stars: 13~; -80%~
9 Stars: 9~; -62%~
10 Stars: 2~; -66%~
11 Stars: 0~; -100%~

So what does this tell us? the numbers show the second we get to 7 stars and above, on average, you lose about 73.8% of maps, and if we take out the one 11 star map, you lose about 67.25% of maps on average.
What is 67% of 262? 175 beatmaps lost, bringing that grand total of maps of 7 stars and above that are less than 3 minutes and 30 seconds long to 87 beatmaps!

Wow. 87 beatmaps, (well 87 - the one 11 star so 86). There are literally less than 100 beatmaps that are shorter than 3 and half minutes. Sounds like a lot of fun to farm in the endgame ranked section!

All this to say, this is why there needs to be a change. There is a a MASSIVE disparity between the amount of ranked maps of higher star rating beatmaps and 5 star and lower.

+1.

edit: 7 stars and above that are equal or less than 3:30 have 92 in total.

When you put it this way, yes there is not much short content for high level players. If the intention of this proposal is specifically to cater towards those players, then it is a success. I just don't think that is a healthy direction to take for the community. Grow, not retain. But I've said my point, I'll make my peace.

converts suck and should never be brought up in an rc proposal about spread but the proposal is good. to say there is no bias is silly but to say that this bias is negative is sillier. clearly has the best interests of the game in mind, as any nat should.

amni dt wrote:

also as a player i don't care how it is achieved, but i'd love to see more maps in that range as the 2min or 5min nm gacha is getting annoying

this + other rarely ranked "tourney skillset" maps really if for some reason these is what holds those maps from getting ranked in first place, had some people that said to me on multi "why is these on tourneys theres barely any map with this skillset on ranked"

I think the benefits will outweigh the cons, if any.

+1

It’s good imo, being able to access more variety total in this mode can help really make things fun for everyone. There of course will be sets catered to not have the lower diffs, but people like me will still have the option to create those portions. I like those stats that were shared above, helps pain the picture for this proposal.


This being an additional option to what we have will always be a +1 to me

Secre wrote:

Cons:

- Less lower SR maps. This is probably the biggest, and really only con that I could think of. Except I believe that the impact will be alot more negligible than people think. This was also the same con that people thought of with the previous RC change. How did that turn out? In a large majority of cases, instead of opting to "not make spreads" anymore, I believe we ended up with a net positive of maps, aswell as overall higher quality lower difficulties especially in the platter-rain area. We ended up filling a pretty large gap of 2-4 minute platter/rains, by the fact that they too were also allowed to be ranked as their own difficulties.

Even if it does end up reducing the easy difficulties in new maps, we could solve it outside the ranking criteria: like automatically adding "star<4" in the beatmap listings until the player has passed a 4*.

As already highlighted by Trent, the vast majority of the ranked maps in CtB (and the other modes) are aimed at beginners or intermediate players. It would be nice to give advanced players more ranked content.

+ 1 BILLION!!!!!!
So if I understand this correctly, average length song spreads can start with salads, like mania normals? As people said this makes lower diffs optional as long as a spread has enough maps. That sounds good to me! As someone at a rain/overdose level i'd like to hear more songs, and this way, top player mapsets will still have difficulties for me because my skill level will be the lowest difficulty! I also feel that my consistency is garbage, my top plays are mostly 1:30 or less, and that's because there aren't longer maps. I would be better at the maps I can already play if they were longer. Next, it's fun to watch replays of high level players and people fighting for ranks. However, this is diminished because it feels like 3 digits all have to play the same mapsets which are all similar lengths. More high sr would give more variety. If we had more high sr mapsets then people could choose the songs they like, instead of the songs they are kinda required to play. That actually might give some uniqueness to top players too.