I agree.

There is something wrong, I played like 10 maps:

~7 Hard's+DT

- 1 Insane+DT

- 1 Lunatic

- 1xEasy-1xNormal(to check if there is someting wrong)+DT+HR

So... I lost 1 rank each for 1 of those maps. Few minutes later I randomly lost 1 rank even tho I didn't even play a ranked. 5 Minutes Later testet it agian with a normal, nothing happened(and btw. I got 0,00pp for all of those maps).

5 Minutes later played a Easy+DT+HR and got 200 ranks, then tried a Insane+DT again lost ranks~

+Yesterday I played a another+dt map, had 1495pp, tried to increase everything on the map and I did, I got a higher score, better accuracy(5-7% I think) and got a B instead of a C, but I lost 10pp for it~ 100% something wrong with this.


Edit: Only thing I learned is that I get moe ranks/pp for a Easy-Normal with Mods, then playing any hard-Insane with DT and increasing a score(overall) makes your rank and pp go down, logics -1.

believe it or not, people surpassing your rank results in you losing your rank

the loss of pp on the other hand is a different story

Don't look at ranking, look at your PP. There is a massive competition in rankings 5k+ and people just keep playing, getting good score whilst you are playing too. Also PP is rounded down and when players are tied at the same amount of PP, they often shuffle in the rankings.


@edit: also wtf I never cared about rank when I was like #279827238736423623423827764846, why would anyone care? The gap between the players' skills in rank 1k+ is a lot thinner than in top 50

China wrote:

Hi, I'm not sure if anyone else ever had this experience or if it's just me, but recently I started noticing that even though sometimes I was doing good on an insane song, I wouldn't get much rank, if any at all. This felt extremely weird as I used to get hundreds of ranks from insanes, some of them even with me having a lower accuracy or combo (all of this is in ppv2).
So I decided to try an experiment. I picked out one of my maps that had an easy, normal, hard and insane difficulty. On easy, I put HR on and got an SS along with +6 rank. On normal, I put HR on and also got SS, but only giving me +2 rank. I SS'd the hard with no mods, and it gave me +1 rank. I FC'd the insane (with about 98.5% accuracy) and got no rank at all. Actually my rank rose a number but I'm assuming that is because someone passed me in that short amount of time.
So I don't really understand this. The new PP system is supposed to give rank based on difficulty now, so I seriously doubt it considers a HR easy SS as being harder than a HR normal SS, or a HR normal SS being harder than a hard SS.
I also have a few friends in the 4 digit rank range, some of them being more than 10k higher than me, and our plays (and best performances) tend to be generally the same (or very close) in terms of accuracy, score and difficulty.

The pp you get could also come from a previous score you did which didn't get counted previously, potentially because it was on a very new map. Don't assume, that the pp / rank you gain or lose are coming only from your own score and everything else is frozen. So another possibility would be, that various people have passed you while you did the normal + HR SS score, rendering your net gain lower.
Making assumptions based on rank gains from a play only works in the very high ranks where there is little fluctuation.

Judging from your best performance list I don't see any grave errors (for instance easys or normals) in the weighting.

Also I'm going to gracefully ignore Venumidas until he provides sensible data to work with instead of unfounded accusations and flame.

1. http://puu.sh/7deT8

2. http://puu.sh/7dftQ

3. http://puu.sh/7dfDk

4. @Tom94, I only said what happened to me, I went into this thread to tell the OP that the same thing happened to me, I really start disliking you, shouldn't you be able to read? + There was 0 "flame" in my comment, this one might be a "flame" for you... atleast if you are a little kid.

Edit: Here is another one http://puu.sh/7cuTs , but my ranked jumped back because I didn't play for few hours, what is normal, not that important tho.

Edit2: Those are the Maps I played, http://osu.ppy.sh/s/142300 / http://osu.ppy.sh/s/75606 both ranked beatmaps(not qualified).

I kind of wish that the wiki article can be done first so that people have something solid to review, rather than making guesses...

Venumidas wrote:

1. http://puu.sh/7deT8

2. http://puu.sh/7dftQ

3. http://puu.sh/7dfDk

4. @Tom94, I only said what happened to me, I went into this thread to tell the OP that the same thing happened to me, I really start disliking you, shouldn't you be able to read? + There was 0 "flame" in my comment, this one might be a "flame" for you... atleast if you are a little kid.

Edit: Here is another one http://puu.sh/7cuTs , but my ranked jumped back because I didn't play for few hours, what is normal, not that important tho.

Edit2: Those are the Maps I played, http://osu.ppy.sh/s/142300 / http://osu.ppy.sh/s/75606 both ranked beatmaps(not qualified).

are you seriously making a big fuss out of one or two people surpassing you in the #20k ranks?

Bauxe wrote:

But instead of worrying about your rank, just work on improving and it will increase over time. That is the whole idea of PPv2.

----------------------------------
e: just wondering, is it possible to gain less than 1pp for a song? e.g 0.5pp for improving accuracy on one song from 98% to 98.7% (just an example)

tastystew wrote:

grinding pp helps with accuracy though.

not for me xd

Noobsicle wrote:

are you seriously making a big fuss out of one or two people surpassing you in the #20k ranks?

Bauxe wrote:

But instead of worrying about your rank, just work on improving and it will increase over time. That is the whole idea of PPv2.

----------------------------------
e: just wondering, is it possible to gain less than 1pp for a song? e.g 0.5pp for improving accuracy on one song from 98% to 98.7% (just an example)

I just showed that I lost ranks/pp(Performance points) for beating Hard-Insane-Lunatic maps, what you wrote makes 0 sense, also I wrote that I got 0,00= Nothing for increasing everything on a map, instead I lost pp/ranks, also I got 0,00pp for doing the other maps I showed, actualy I think I even lost pp.~

Looks like you didn't read 99% of the stuff I wrote, I guess instead you just looked at my name, thought you are cool and have to be more intelligent then me, even to you just showed that you can't even read~



Also I think the thread can be closed~ Cause I flamed Tom and the other guy, now they are sad :'(

Edit: So hard I didn't even know I flamed them.

Edit2: Just to show you that there are some people not using their braines(no names)

http://puu.sh/7dsLk.png

i dont see a single pp loss in any of your pictures, they make perfect sense.

Venumidas wrote:

I just showed that I lost ranks/pp(Performance points) for beating Hard-Insane-Lunatic maps, what you wrote makes 0 sense, also I wrote that I got 0,00= Nothing for increasing everything on a map, instead I lost pp/ranks, also I got 0,00pp for doing the other maps I showed, actualy I think I even lost pp.~

Looks like you didn't read 99% of the stuff I wrote, I guess instead you just looked at my name, thought you are cool and have to be more intelligent then me, even to you just showed that you can't even read~



Also I think the thread can be closed~ Cause I flamed Tom and the other guy, now they are sad :'(

Edit: So hard I didn't even know I flamed them.

yes, clearly you lost pp as shown on the screenshots you've provided

when people pass your rank, you rank down. how is that hard to understand? how does that make zero sense? do you get it? when someone gets a better pp score than you, they rank up, you rank down. do you get it now? if you stay on the forums, worrying about your pp "loss", you're not gonna rank up. do you get it?

it doesn't matter if you use HD+DT+HR+FL on a piss easy song that (you've already SS'd) with a crappy accuracy, if your accuracy is worse than your previous best score, you won't gain shit, deal with it and move on

Venumidas wrote:

Edit2: Just to show you that there are some people not using their braines(no names)

http://puu.sh/7dsLk.png

"hey everyone instead of actually trying to improve yourself in the game and potentially gain pp and ranks through effort and practice, let's just spam the forums with posts about "losing" pp and ranks, hoping that one day we will be able to receive some sort of pp compensation through tom94 and peppy-sama"

Noobsicle wrote:

yes, clearly you lost[b] pp[/b] as shown on the screenshots you've provided

when people pass your rank, you rank down. how is that hard to understand? how does that make zero sense? do you get it? when someone gets a better pp score than you, they rank up, you rank down. do you get it now? if you stay on the forums, worrying about your pp "loss", you're not gonna rank up. do you get it?

it doesn't matter if you use HD+DT+HR+FL on a piss easy song that (you've already SS'd) with a crappy accuracy, if your accuracy is worse than your previous best score, you won't gain shit, deal with it and move on

I never said that I 100% lost PP, + if you lose ranks, you don't lose PP, cause PP= Performance Points, showing your "performance" and if it's not changing, then the PP also wont change.

+ Here u go, a better version of the other puush Link: http://puu.sh/7dt7H.jpg

Edit: @Noobsicle, yeah let's not use the ""!GAMEPLAY & RANKING!"" if we have any problem with our "GAMEPLAY OR RANKINGS"~ logics -3+2

Edit2: @ Noobsicle, I never ever played those maps, also I said that I increased everything on a map and still lost 10pp+ alot of ranks, is it really that hard to understand for u? Or do you still don't read and just type?

Edit3: Here we got, the worst score you see in this was the one I had with 1495pp, with the only "B" one I lost 10pp and few hundred ranks. http://puu.sh/7aNb3

Edit4: @silmarilen, you can gain 0,01(or even 0,001pp not sure)pp also you can lose 0,01(0,001pp)pp.

Lemme just ignore Venumidas and his childish rage, and address China's problem - or at least the part with the #15 score that doesn't show up on the online ranking boards.
My best guess is that you tied with a lot of scores. On tied scores, the oldest ones (those that were achieved the earliest) are shown at the top of the rankings when looking at the overall leaderboard. Ingame however, in the section that shows your online rank, it will display the highest rank that you tied next to your score. So it's entirely possible that everything from #15 to #50+ was tied (likely a spinnerless SS). If that's not the case, could you maybe give us the map where this happened and a screenshot of your score ingame?

I explained everything, I showed everything they asked for, showed them proof that I'm right and still you think you are right, pretty stupid~ I'm not raging I just gave you everything you asked for, actualy this is the only thing that makes me the stupid one here, cause I try to explain something to stupid people and even tho I know they are not gonna listen to me showing everything they ask for, I still go on showing them everythign they ask for~

Still it won't get in my head why people have to do this, even tho the most people here are pretty much big a***oles, it'S still the best community~I think so atleast~ maybe u guys even wanna argue about that.....

You said you lost pp, your screenshots show you didn't.
How hard is it to accept that those scores were simply not good enough to earn pp?

i don't understand what you're trying to show me with your LELELE HE MAD XD screenshot

Luna wrote:

How hard is it to accept that those scores were simply not good enough to earn pp?

Venumidas wrote:

Edit3: Here we got, the worst score you see in this was the one I had with 1495pp, with the only "B" one I lost 10pp and few hundred ranks. http://puu.sh/7aNb3

Can you show me how many misses you had on each of the 4 scores? Those are also considered, regardless of combo / accuracy. I know it's not a good solution, but there is no other way to stop ridiculously hard maps (for instance tag4 maps) from inflating as long as there is no per hitobject data available.
The reasons for only counting your best scores are of both technical and logical nature. We can't possibly store all scores ever made to always have the most pp-giving one available. Only storing the highest pp scores is also not a good idea, because the algorithm changes frequently and thus the stored scores would often become wrong. I can assure you, that we are doing everything we can to improve conditions, but - i hope you can understand - we can't work on the ranking system 24/7.

From the other screenshots you posted I don't see anything wrong. You didn't gain pp for a few plays, because they were not considered hard enough and meanwhile other people passed your rank.

Finally, what I'm calling flame are the offensive remarks you embed in almost every post of yours. Talking about the "logic -1", "if you are a kid", "do you even read" and so on things. I'm sure you'd get a lot friendlier responses, if you wouldn't make people feel offended.

Tom94 wrote:

Venumidas wrote:

Edit3: Here we got, the worst score you see in this was the one I had with 1495pp, with the only "B" one I lost 10pp and few hundred ranks. http://puu.sh/7aNb3

Can you show me how many misses you had on each of the 4 scores? Those are also considered, regardless of combo / accuracy. I know it's not a good solution, but there is no other way to stop ridiculously hard maps (for instance tag4 maps) from inflating as long as there is no per hitobject data available.
The reasons for only counting your best scores are of both technical and logical nature. We can't possibly store all scores ever made to always have the most pp-giving one available. Only storing the highest pp scores is also not a good idea, because the algorithm changes frequently and thus the stored scores would often become wrong. I can assure you, that we are doing everything we can to improve conditions, but - i hope you can understand - we can't work on the ranking system 24/7.

From the other screenshots you posted I don't see anything wrong. You didn't gain pp for a few plays, because they were not considered hard enough and meanwhile other people passed your rank.

Finally, what I'm calling flame are the offensive remarks you embed in almost every post of yours. Talking about the "logic -1", "if you are a kid", "do you even read" and so on things. I'm sure you'd get a lot friendlier responses, if you wouldn't make people feel offended.

I'm not even saying the PP - System is shit(anymore), I just said that there could and prob. is/was something wrong at that moment, overall I think this system is extremly good.

@VenuThere may be an issue, but currently they're working on taiko and mania so you won't get results instantly. In the meantime, you could try improving your scores further and when they fix up the issues you're currently experiencing, just go S through all those maps you got B on. Easiest solution.

@China, it may be system delay if you have a bad network connection (like me). Sometimes if I retry instantly after finishing a map, the record doesn't have time to submit my first score before I finish it the second time, and only submits the second score. So when I finish a map with a result I like, I usually wait for my rank to show up on the song, and for my little square thingy with picture+pp+rank+level to flash, meaning that it has updated. Perhaps you have a similar issue.

Today, before playing a new map, my pp was 1779. I now I was player 179 in the Brazilian ranking. Just played a beatmap (on Lunatic) that I'd never played before and got a B with 91.57%. I passed it on my first try, only to see my pp dropped down to 1740 and I'm rank 188 BR. I don't really know what happened, but it's pretty baffling.

FlameseeK wrote:

Today, before playing a new map, my pp was 1779. I now I was player 179 in the Brazilian ranking. Just played a beatmap (on Lunatic) that I'd never played before and got a B with 91.57%. I passed it on my first try, only to see my pp dropped down to 1740 and I'm rank 188 BR. I don't really know what happened, but it's pretty baffling.

Lost 7000 ranks+250pp I guess you guys really must hate me.

Venumidas wrote:

FlameseeK wrote:

Today, before playing a new map, my pp was 1779. I now I was player 179 in the Brazilian ranking. Just played a beatmap (on Lunatic) that I'd never played before and got a B with 91.57%. I passed it on my first try, only to see my pp dropped down to 1740 and I'm rank 188 BR. I don't really know what happened, but it's pretty baffling.

Lost 7000 ranks+250pp I guess you guys really must hate me.

Don't worry, there is an update going on right now which will make everyone lose some pp. Other people will also lose pp and your rank will go back to around where it was.

Tom94 wrote:

Venumidas wrote:

Lost 7000 ranks+250pp I guess you guys really must hate me.

Don't worry, there is an update going on right now which will make everyone lose some pp. Other people will also lose pp and your rank will go back to around where it was.

Don't worry, he is always like that.

my pp is 2748 o_OOO before had 10,000

PP is recalculating now, so everyone's rank is going to jump all over the place. Please wait warmly.
Locking topic so people will read this post instead of burying it.

I can second this. I have a feeling the algorithm lies heavily on accuracy, as even though I FC'd an Insane song (but got a low accuracy for it), it counted as my Best Performance -- but I rose only about 50 ranks (and I'm in the 5 digit range).

it relies heavily on everything

it also sorts players according to their performance

Hi everyone, just wanted to give an update.
Some people asked me a few questions but I'm not really going to dig into the 3 pages of posts to find them so I'll just write everything down here
The problem with my #15 rank that only shows up on my computer turned out not to be a problem at all. When I went to the web rankings again and checked, I suddenly noticed that the top 50 was the same for all osu! game modes. Then I knew it was my internet problem, when I switched networks it displayed perfectly.
The thing with getting weird pp calculations had nothing to do with my corrupted osu! files, they work fine. I've just come to the conclusion that it was due to the maps I play. A few days ago a friend spectated me and told me I was much better than my rank and to stop being lazy and fc some insanes. I told her that I do fc insanes but they only give me like the slightest fraction of a pp and around 5 rank each time. Then she said that I was playing the wrong maps and sent me a list of some other insane maps, which I went over and fc'd one by one. Instantly my rank shot up, I gained 120pp in an hour, it was pretty awesome. Now it's been 2 days and I've gained a total of 200 more pp since she sent me those songs, if you look at my userpage you can see my performance graph go right up in almost a straight line whereas before it was just a flat line. In these 2 days I've managed to replace half of all my best performances.
The difference between these maps that actually gave me pp and the ones I used to play is that most of these maps are very fast, have high bpms, and are really jumpy. They also take a few replays before you can fc. The insanes I was playing earlier weren't really as jumpy nor as fast and were much easier to fc. So my conclusion is that (to Venumidas) just play harder maps that are more suited to your ranks and you should see your pp accumulate (with rare exceptions, I fc'ed The Creator on Origin and got nothing). Something I do is go to performance rankings and choose random players that are around 5k higher than me, look at their best performances, find a rather short song and work to beat their record on it. This makes it really easy to see what kind of songs osu! values as being "hard." This routine brings me a ton of pp every day, try it.
And the thing with getting a lot of ranks on easy/normal songs with mods, I've found it to be pretty consistent. I put HD, HR and DT on and fc'ed some easys and normals today to take a break from insanes and each time they'll give me a little fraction of a pp, usually +3 or +6 rank each time. It's pretty slow compared to just playing insanes but it's pretty consistent.
So yeah, that's about it. Sorry for creating confusion, the pp calculations are generally pretty accurate, I was just being lazy and not playing harder songs that I had the potential to do. Any questions, feel free to post.

Well, I've played some songs streamy and jumpy songs and I didn't get any increase in rank, ofc I didn't FC it though. Makes me think that a FC is needed to gain an increase in rank, am I wrong?

http://puu.sh/7kIRa.png

Or is it just my accuracy? I don't really understand this :/

Celzon wrote:

Well, I've played some songs streamy and jumpy songs and I didn't get any increase in rank, ofc I didn't FC it though. Makes me think that a FC is needed to gain an increase in rank, am I wrong?

http://puu.sh/7kIRa.png

Or is it just my accuracy? I don't really understand this :/

Usually I get a lot of rank fc'ing with over 97% acc, 95% for harder songs.
ppv2 undervalues streams just a little right now too.
also if i dont fc, I only get like 20% of the pp i get when i do fc.

Or is it just my accuracy? I don't really understand this :/

The 11 misses

TSC wrote:

Or is it just my accuracy? I don't really understand this :/

The 11 misses

misses lose you a lot now.

misses lose you a lot now.

yea, I missed 7 times at the end so now this score is worthless

you weren't close to a full combo either..

pp be confusin.

peppy, can u develop another osu for ppl who want to farm pp whit normal and easies songs? Thank u
lol

astelios wrote:

peppy, can u develop another osu for ppl who want to farm pp whit normal and easies songs? Thank u
lol

I know you are being sarcastic, but that is a terrible idea.