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Is STD mapping on a decline?

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16
Lp9
248 posts
Joined May 2020
Topic Starter
Lp9
It feels like more taiko and mania maps are ranked than std, and also seems like barely anyone plays the new ranked maps and it seems like there's a general indifference about mapping. Maybe fancy sliders ruined everything lol

Discuss i guess
powerplayer75
76 posts
Joined May 2020
powerplayer75
ive noticed this, just seems to me that the other modes are more active rather than std declining. nice to see.
MrMcMikey22
1,734 posts
Joined January 2021
MrMcMikey22
To be fair lp9 has a point...

I feel like we have seen all kinds of std mapping before.

mapping based on how the song really feels like, tech sliders, old mapping (iNiS-, symmetry-, copy paste-, bezier slider, low ar (yea that's literally just for experts and not anything else...), high circle size, low circle size, HIGH spacing, low spacing??

Though if I'm being honest there are some obvious patterns that I see...

blablabla text
Such as the mappers using a LOT MORE 1/4 sliders.

Pure vocal mapping that is basically non-existent to find these days.

Maps that don't only try to focus on visual spacing or so, a LOT MORE than distance snapped maps.

Distance snapped maps => probably none of the maps these days.. ;_;

STD ranking progress having the stakes gone up too high for some users.
(That could also lead to the beatmaps not feeling special anymore, because of the mappers expecting a lot more quality, so much to the point that they kinda just give up at ranking beatmaps, because it ruins their fun so badly.)

A bunch of mappers thinking that the reason how this beatmap got ranked is, because the user is a nominator and yeah mappers not getting their first ranked map, because stress and anxiety and blablablablabla...

STD literally existing for like almost 17 years, it can be pretty obvious why some users just get bored at playing osu! at this point...

And yeah the amount of infamous moments in std mapping and ranking a std mapset, most notably, I would assume... (Though there have also been controversies about mapping in other modes too...)

[Most likely these 1000000 word paragraphs that might appear in a few beatmaps every single year or month idk...]
lewski
1,253 posts
Joined September 2014
lewski

Lp9 wrote:

seems like barely anyone plays the new ranked maps and it seems like there's a general indifference about mapping
ive heard all of these are things from at least one person whose opinion i care about

  1. too many maps -> ppl cant find maps theyd enjoy -> apathy
  2. bng hasnt scaled with the map output of the community -> ranking is more cumbersome -> apathy
  3. eternal issue of what quality standard to enforce if any -> eternal pvp + sotarks makes an army of children send u death threats if u try to make a difference -> apathy
  4. u cant make any meaningful change in this game without dev support -> everything gets either stonewalled by peppy or put in "we dont have time for this yet" limbo forever -> apathy
powerplayer75
76 posts
Joined May 2020
powerplayer75

lewski wrote:

u cant make any meaningful change in this game without dev support
what changes do people want that needs dev support?
Okoratu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,913 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoratu
https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/labels/area%3Abeatmap-discussions

a bunch of things.

off the top of my head:
- moderators cannot edit discussions, only lock the entire thread https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/3642
-> disrespectful mods that contain valid points for maps stay up while responses get removed or silenced
- in discussions when there's deleted posts normal users don't see that there were posts deleted making it seem like people are yelling at air and telling no one in particular to "reign it in"
- Kudosu from modding has no real meaning or use
- storyboards cannot be modded separately without workarounds
- hitsounds cannot be modded separately without workarounds
- the review system (meant to simulate old forum modding because people liked that) generates posts on the timeline, which means that defeats the point of writing a post that is supposed to be ordered however the poster wants it to be
- only bns can downvote suggestions apparently lol https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/2178 https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/4628
- bns cannot leave a message when nominating a beatmap https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/2018
- you cannot edit posts that reopen discussions https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/5325
- some links just dont work https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/7347
- you can't see which suggestions were useful to the map because the state the map was in isn't retained https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/1953

notice the years between all of these being brought up

---

that said i've heard that mapping / maps are on the decline since 2013 so i'm not banking on anything actually being on any decline just people being tilted and uninterested lol

also a big factor is that during the height of the pandemic this game had an absurd influx of players and it kinda petered out after, making it seem like everythign is on a decline when it really isn't
Last edited by Okoratu , edited 1 time in total.
lewski
1,253 posts
Joined September 2014
lewski

powerplayer75 wrote:

what changes do people want that needs dev support?
oko's list is good but here are the main things that take space in my head

  1. changes to the ranking system (different people want different things but anything that involves some kind of change to the system itself instead of just rules needs dev support)
  2. user-submitted tags for maps (stuff like gameplay elements and map "genres") to make it easier for people to find maps they'd like to play
  3. separation of metadata and maps at the file level to facilitate the previous point and to make it possible to update metadata after a map is ranked
  4. editor features
Personally, I also want a hs system that doesn't force me to choose between a bunch of options that are all bad in some way. This doesn't see a lot of discussion so I didn't put it on the list but I'd like to attribute that to the fact that other things are more broken than hitsounding right now
Serizawa Haruki
1,658 posts
Joined June 2015
Serizawa Haruki

Okoratu wrote:

that said i've heard that mapping / maps are on the decline since 2013 so i'm not banking on anything actually being on any decline just people being tilted and uninterested lol

also a big factor is that during the height of the pandemic this game had an absurd influx of players and it kinda petered out after, making it seem like everythign is on a decline when it really isn't
Except there are actual numbers that support the argument that standard mapping is on a decline. The number of ranked maps has decreased by about 20% compared to the previous year. The number of BNs was lower last year as well, at some point there were actually less std BNs than mania BNs. Play count on newer maps has dropped significantly too, not just per mapset but also in total. This is partly due to the fact that more maps exist over time so the play count is distributed more thinly. However, the difference is still very big. Other things like community choice voting have also seen less participation lately.

Blaming covid doesn't really check out since the situation before the pandemic looked less bleak than now and mapping was very much thriving around 2018-2019.

While it's true that highs and lows are normal, there is usually a reason why changes happen. For example, the BN tier system in 2017 caused a notable decrease in the amount of maps getting ranked.

I'm too lazy to post the actual stats but if you want I can look them up.
Last edited by Serizawa Haruki , edited 4 times in total.
[-Omni-]
868 posts
Joined July 2021
[-Omni-]
i dont think so? i think other modes are just getting more popular which isnt a bad thing
FINGERLOCK
153 posts
Joined March 2014
FINGERLOCK
Entirely a personal anecdote but there are extremely few maps that come out month to month that I feel are even worth my time to play. I feel like every time there's a cool song in the ranked section it's because I forgot to sort by gamemode and it's taiko or mania.

Getting a little tired of all the 170-190bpm japanese song with a 4-6* top diff mapsets.
Last edited by FINGERLOCK , edited 1 time in total.
MrMcMikey22
1,734 posts
Joined January 2021
MrMcMikey22

FINGERLOCK wrote:

Entirely a personal anecdote but there are extremely few maps that come out month to month that I feel are even worth my time to play. I feel like every time there's a cool song in the ranked section it's because I forgot to sort by gamemode and it's taiko or mania.

Getting a little tired of all the 170-190bpm japanese song with a 4-6* top diff mapsets.
damn, you literally just managed to describe the entire modern mapping meta with just a sentence, it's literally like this!
qwt
954 posts
Joined January 2020
qwt

FINGERLOCK wrote:

Entirely a personal anecdote but there are extremely few maps that come out month to month that I feel are even worth my time to play. I feel like every time there's a cool song in the ranked section it's because I forgot to sort by gamemode and it's taiko or mania.

Getting a little tired of all the 170-190bpm japanese song with a 4-6* top diff mapsets.
one of the few opinions ever made by an osu! player (not mapper) i agree with
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton

Okoratu wrote:

off the top of my head: [...]
adds to my "when I'm desperate for that freelance money" list

(someone else work on osu-web with me please)
Last edited by clayton , edited 1 time in total.
powerplayer75
76 posts
Joined May 2020
powerplayer75

clayton wrote:

Okoratu wrote:

off the top of my head: [...]
adds to my "when I'm desperate for that freelance money" list

(someone else work on osu-web with me please)
if you showed me around osu-web id be interested in doing something
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
msg me either here or discord (@gp_clayton) :D

to respond to the actual thread... I haven't closely reviewed any of the relevant stats but I don't think these totals indicate much about satisfaction with or quality of the ranked section. there are so many cases where I would personally find removing a map or removing a vector of incentive for plays to be an improvement to the game's health, it really all depends on where these trends are coming from. I can't help but feel like a lot of people try to justify whatever random one-dimensional opinion about mapping they have just because they can cite a few very loosely related numbers, there is rarely genuine and intelligent study about these things
Last edited by clayton , edited 1 time in total.
Randomness64
253 posts
Joined January 2018
Randomness64

FINGERLOCK wrote:

Entirely a personal anecdote but there are extremely few maps that come out month to month that I feel are even worth my time to play. I feel like every time there's a cool song in the ranked section it's because I forgot to sort by gamemode and it's taiko or mania.

Getting a little tired of all the 170-190bpm japanese song with a 4-6* top diff mapsets.
someone finally said it,people are just bored of the same type of maps/same songs over and over,its a rythm game for god sake it should have different type of songs not just one or two types of songs that gatekeep the whole ranked section.
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