I know nobody really is going to notice this, or care much (if at all), but I'm quitting mapping...for rank that is.

After much thought and reflection, I have come to a conclusion that should have been obvious for me, yet I refused to accept it: my maps aren't going to get ranked, no matter how many people support me, there's always gonna be some obstacle, an obstacle that prevents one from ranking a map. Since I mapped Punish (Cut Ver.) I've been tweaking my mapping style, attempting to make it more rankable. However, this has led to me no longer recieving complaints about monotony, but rather the maps being too messy and inconsistent. Granted, this is mostly modders, but the fact that I can't seem to hit a middle ground is destroying my morale, especially because I have been structuring my maps sinse Gunther.

I don't map as a form of expression, nor do I do it to win prizes. I do it for fun, and to make every map better than the last (and maybe get something ranked along the way). That being said, it's become all too clear that there is no right way to map, yet there seems to be a desire for that "right way," whether or not it's 2018, 2021, or 2023 mapping. We can't really agree on anything, and the FuJu situation (and that map wafer recently ranked) is honestly making me realize that the maps being pushed aren't being made for pleasure, they're just made to appease a select few, to achieve a status quo. My maps are generally easy and would probably be farmy if I'm mapping the way I want to, but I don't care about gaining rank, as long as it's clean and fun to play, I'm happy. But the schism forming in this community is disheartening, and I'm not sure I want any part in either side. Therefore, I have come to the difficult decision to stop trying for a ranked map of my own. I might make a Normal GD here and there, but going forward, I will mostly stick to the sidelines. I have never made a map that went above 30 favorites, and those that did were all on other people's sets, and that's okay. Fame may help you get a map ranked, but as long as people like my maps, and they remain fun to play, I'm content, and will remain so.

I'm not even sure why I'm posting this here. Maybe I want people to see it, maybe not. I'm not sure, but it just felt right to post this here. It's messy as all hell, but again, I feel I needed to say it.

yoo didnt know someone mapped a cut ver of punish nice

point of ranked for most people is to get a fun map to reach people. sometimes all you need to do is map a good song and the value of map will be created naturally with or without it.

to others, the point of rank is to make a statement on what is considered an acceptable map. which isn't invalid, but this will create division because people just disagree.

you can decide whether your mapping quality being acceptable to the mapping community is important to you. for players however, they likely do not care as long as you are decent enough to make a coherent map, which you can.

Ngl, both of these posts say a lot of truth about the ranking process. Thanks you two!

iaport wrote:

I know nobody really is going to notice this, or care much (if at all), but I'm quitting mapping...for rank that is.

After much thought and reflection, I have come to a conclusion that should have been obvious for me, yet I refused to accept it: my maps aren't going to get ranked, no matter how many people support me, there's always gonna be some obstacle, an obstacle that prevents one from ranking a map. Since I mapped Punish (Cut Ver.) I've been tweaking my mapping style, attempting to make it more rankable. However, this has led to me no longer recieving complaints about monotony, but rather the maps being too messy and inconsistent. Granted, this is mostly modders, but the fact that I can't seem to hit a middle ground is destroying my morale, especially because I have been structuring my maps sinse Gunther.

I don't map as a form of expression, nor do I do it to win prizes. I do it for fun, and to make every map better than the last (and maybe get something ranked along the way). That being said, it's become all too clear that there is no right way to map, yet there seems to be a desire for that "right way," whether or not it's 2018, 2021, or 2023 mapping. We can't really agree on anything, and the FuJu situation (and that map wafer recently ranked) is honestly making me realize that the maps being pushed aren't being made for pleasure, they're just made to appease a select few, to achieve a status quo. My maps are generally easy and would probably be farmy if I'm mapping the way I want to, but I don't care about gaining rank, as long as it's clean and fun to play, I'm happy. But the schism forming in this community is disheartening, and I'm not sure I want any part in either side. Therefore, I have come to the difficult decision to stop trying for a ranked map of my own. I might make a Normal GD here and there, but going forward, I will mostly stick to the sidelines. I have never made a map that went above 30 favorites, and those that did were all on other people's sets, and that's okay. Fame may help you get a map ranked, but as long as people like my maps, and they remain fun to play, I'm content, and will remain so.

I'm not even sure why I'm posting this here. Maybe I want people to see it, maybe not. I'm not sure, but it just felt right to post this here. It's messy as all hell, but again, I feel I needed to say it.

BN's rank their friend's maps and already-established mappers, no matter HOW DOGSHIT the map is, even if it does not represent the music properly, it does not matter, they all glaze each other.

if you are a new mapper, you're cooked, or even an experienced mapper who can create quality maps suitable for ranking, every BN will be conveniently closed or busy or not interested for you.

Let's rank another 12* sound Voltex abomination that does not even represent the music... with 20+ GDs all from the same mappers we all know... but the BNs are open for them

i looked at ur top diff of ding dong song and it actually looks fine + pretty rankable. don't know if u tried to push it but if u did and failed its cuz the song is so offputting / gives the creeps honestly

ngl i kinda relate to this. on std i map more comfy maps that could be farmable and i map for other players, for me to play + enjoyment, and to soemday rank somthing. just focus on the mapping style you want and you can ask me for help anytime if u need/want it <3

never map only for ranked, otherwise you will end up frustrated if you don't accomplish that

yukic wrote:

i looked at ur top diff of ding dong song and it actually looks fine + pretty rankable. don't know if u tried to push it but if u did and failed its cuz the song is so offputting / gives the creeps honestly

I never got to that point, was buried in mods to the point that I just gave up. Everyone kept saying it was far too messy for rank, and even my recent Wind Island map got similar criticisms, to the point where I just dropped it. I think the fact is that I was trying to do a modern take on Andrea's Gunther maps (I stole the mp3 from their map), but I think it was doomed the moment I defended the top diff's name, even if the map was optimal.

iaport wrote:

I never got to that point, was buried in mods to the point that I just gave up. Everyone kept saying it was far too messy for rank, and even my recent Wind Island map got similar criticisms, to the point where I just dropped it. I think the fact is that I was trying to do a modern take on Andrea's Gunther maps (I stole the mp3 from their map), but I think it was doomed the moment I defended the top diff's name, even if the map was optimal.

honestly the advice i can give for this is to take people’s opinions with a grain of salt. if i look back on some of the mods i got when i was when i was a newer mapper.. frankly loads of them were just unhelpful/unsubstantiated

also if u don’t fk with your modder’s maps they’re not going to be the person you want modding your maps

iaport wrote:

I know nobody really is going to notice this, or care much (if at all), but I'm quitting mapping...for rank that is.

After much thought and reflection, I have come to a conclusion that should have been obvious for me, yet I refused to accept it: my maps aren't going to get ranked, no matter how many people support me, there's always gonna be some obstacle, an obstacle that prevents one from ranking a map. Since I mapped Punish (Cut Ver.) I've been tweaking my mapping style, attempting to make it more rankable. However, this has led to me no longer recieving complaints about monotony, but rather the maps being too messy and inconsistent. Granted, this is mostly modders, but the fact that I can't seem to hit a middle ground is destroying my morale, especially because I have been structuring my maps sinse Gunther.

I don't map as a form of expression, nor do I do it to win prizes. I do it for fun, and to make every map better than the last (and maybe get something ranked along the way). That being said, it's become all too clear that there is no right way to map, yet there seems to be a desire for that "right way," whether or not it's 2018, 2021, or 2023 mapping. We can't really agree on anything, and the FuJu situation (and that map wafer recently ranked) is honestly making me realize that the maps being pushed aren't being made for pleasure, they're just made to appease a select few, to achieve a status quo. My maps are generally easy and would probably be farmy if I'm mapping the way I want to, but I don't care about gaining rank, as long as it's clean and fun to play, I'm happy. But the schism forming in this community is disheartening, and I'm not sure I want any part in either side. Therefore, I have come to the difficult decision to stop trying for a ranked map of my own. I might make a Normal GD here and there, but going forward, I will mostly stick to the sidelines. I have never made a map that went above 30 favorites, and those that did were all on other people's sets, and that's okay. Fame may help you get a map ranked, but as long as people like my maps, and they remain fun to play, I'm content, and will remain so.

I'm not even sure why I'm posting this here. Maybe I want people to see it, maybe not. I'm not sure, but it just felt right to post this here. It's messy as all hell, but again, I feel I needed to say it.

I couldn't agree more

Edit: just req to more experienced modderrs. dont req to new modders cuz they probably dont know what theyre doing

then map for fun. ranking isn't about getting there quickly, but more of a journey of learning, meeting new people, and having fun. after all that, i'd say you'll probably get a map ranked down the road

perhaps the real ranked maps we got are the people we met along the way

supa u cant say that while pumping out maps like a machine

Consider yourself lucky that you get such in-depth responses. Even if you don't agree with them, they invite you to have meaningful discussion about mapping.

If you are just here to have a good time I recommend picking up modding because you will get in touch with other mappers a lot more than when you are just out there promoting your own maps.

While you may see your first suggestions getting rejected when you just started out as a new modder, some suggestions will make sense and some mappers are just happy to see their map getting attention from modders regardless of the modder's level.

Anaxii wrote:

never map only for ranked, otherwise you will end up frustrated if you don't accomplish that

Always making maps not for ranking, leaving them in graveyards when many of them are ranking-worthy is a bit demotivating, especially if one of the person's goals is to promote their map into ranking, so he's understandable

Castagne wrote:

Consider yourself lucky that you get such in-depth responses. Even if you don't agree with them, they invite you to have meaningful discussion about mapping.

If you are just here to have a good time I recommend picking up modding because you will get in touch with other mappers a lot more than when you are just out there promoting your own maps.

While you may see your first suggestions getting rejected when you just started out as a new modder, some suggestions will make sense and some mappers are just happy to see their map getting attention from modders regardless of the modder's level.

Honestly I don't think modding has much relevance anymore other than learning more detailed aspects of mapping etc. (unless you're going for BN). But in terms of making connections and increasing the chances of getting your map ranked it's pretty useless. This is mainly for two reasons:

1. Under the old modding (mv1) system, mappers used to mod other people's maps to get kudosu which they could spend to promote their own maps via star priority, so it was basically a give and take. This incentive no longer exists so a lot of mappers simply don't bother modding at all or very rarely. I haven't seen anyone do M4M in a long time. It's still nice to help others and give feedback but you don't get much in return usually except maybe gratitude.
2. The mapping community is significantly larger now than in the past where you often saw the same people in modding threads, #modhelp etc., so it's probably harder to get in touch with other mappers/BNs. The main place to hold conversations has also shifted from public on-site spaces like the ones mentioned before to more indirect and private platforms like Discord or even Twitter. This also makes the community feel more divided into many subgroups which might take more time to get into.

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

Honestly I don't think modding has much relevance anymore other than learning more detailed aspects of mapping etc.

definitely agree but i also think learning analysis is rly useful so go mod anyway

Quite interesting thread.


Let me sit down and tell my story I've been through the years of failures, success and exhaustion:

I've been mapping since 2011, and I've been through all kind of modes at some point (more or less, CTB and Mania were not a big part of my history) and I heard so many unique opinions and views of how I map. That includes my style, my choice of songs and how I design my maps around them. And the consensus I've come across the years is:

You either are selected to be one of those people that can get your map ranked or you're not.

I could just start mapping what I would call "meta songs" and "meta genres" - things that people just enjoy because they're the hot topic, let it be something from a show, a very popular song in the internet or something incredible unique - and chances that I'll be successful are very low. Why? Because I am not that kind of mapper people are looking for. You're either cherished becaused you're already grown to a popular status (because of your past) or you were just really lucky your map blew up like a really good reddit or twitter post.

There is only a handful people that consistently get maps ranked and are really good in what they're doing without looking like a joke of a person. The hard reality is: if you don't have a BN that you can consistently rely on nominating your beatmaps you'll have a tough time getting somewhere with your maps in the ranged of ranked status.

Back then it was actually exciting to get your map ranked and being "official content" to the game when the time sink was nowhere as big as it is today. Yes, this has something to do with higher standards. Yes, this has also to do with the absurd demand of checks Beatmap Nominators have to go through. But think about it: If your map just doesn't blow up and get actual attention - because you get a lot of beatmaps ranked per 24 hours - then what? Your map gets ranked, near no one plays it and the amount of effort you could've been spent in all kinds of different things. Obviously I speak from the perspective of someone that does not have instantaneous access to a BN and have issues to get mods because of the quality or the song choice. It's a different story if you follow the trends and go for safer routes.

Fr, you're right as well.

Stefan wrote:

Quite interesting thread.


Let me sit down and tell my story I've been through the years of failures, success and exhaustion:

I've been mapping since 2011, and I've been through all kind of modes at some point (more or less, CTB and Mania were not a big part of my history) and I heard so many unique opinions and views of how I map. That includes my style, my choice of songs and how I design my maps around them. And the consensus I've come across the years is:

You either are selected to be one of those people that can get your map ranked or you're not.

I could just start mapping what I would call "meta songs" and "meta genres" - things that people just enjoy because they're the hot topic, let it be something from a show, a very popular song in the internet or something incredible unique - and chances that I'll be successful are very low. Why? Because I am not that kind of mapper people are looking for. You're either cherished becaused you're already grown to a popular status (because of your past) or you were just really lucky your map blew up like a really good reddit or twitter post.

There is only a handful people that consistently get maps ranked and are really good in what they're doing without looking like a joke of a person. The hard reality is: if you don't have a BN that you can consistently rely on nominating your beatmaps you'll have a tough time getting somewhere with your maps in the ranged of ranked status.

Back then it was actually exciting to get your map ranked and being "official content" to the game when the time sink was nowhere as big as it is today. Yes, this has something to do with higher standards. Yes, this has also to do with the absurd demand of checks Beatmap Nominators have to go through. But think about it: If your map just doesn't blow up and get actual attention - because you get a lot of beatmaps ranked per 24 hours - then what? Your map gets ranked, near no one plays it and the amount of effort you could've been spent in all kinds of different things. Obviously I speak from the perspective of someone that does not have instantaneous access to a BN and have issues to get mods because of the quality or the song choice. It's a different story if you follow the trends and go for safer routes.

iaport wrote:

I know nobody really is going to notice this, or care much (if at all), but I'm quitting mapping...for rank that is.

After much thought and reflection, I have come to a conclusion that should have been obvious for me, yet I refused to accept it: my maps aren't going to get ranked, no matter how many people support me, there's always gonna be some obstacle, an obstacle that prevents one from ranking a map. Since I mapped Punish (Cut Ver.) I've been tweaking my mapping style, attempting to make it more rankable. However, this has led to me no longer recieving complaints about monotony, but rather the maps being too messy and inconsistent. Granted, this is mostly modders, but the fact that I can't seem to hit a middle ground is destroying my morale, especially because I have been structuring my maps sinse Gunther.

I don't map as a form of expression, nor do I do it to win prizes. I do it for fun, and to make every map better than the last (and maybe get something ranked along the way). That being said, it's become all too clear that there is no right way to map, yet there seems to be a desire for that "right way," whether or not it's 2018, 2021, or 2023 mapping. We can't really agree on anything, and the FuJu situation (and that map wafer recently ranked) is honestly making me realize that the maps being pushed aren't being made for pleasure, they're just made to appease a select few, to achieve a status quo. My maps are generally easy and would probably be farmy if I'm mapping the way I want to, but I don't care about gaining rank, as long as it's clean and fun to play, I'm happy. But the schism forming in this community is disheartening, and I'm not sure I want any part in either side. Therefore, I have come to the difficult decision to stop trying for a ranked map of my own. I might make a Normal GD here and there, but going forward, I will mostly stick to the sidelines. I have never made a map that went above 30 favorites, and those that did were all on other people's sets, and that's okay. Fame may help you get a map ranked, but as long as people like my maps, and they remain fun to play, I'm content, and will remain so.

I'm not even sure why I'm posting this here. Maybe I want people to see it, maybe not. I'm not sure, but it just felt right to post this here. It's messy as all hell, but again, I feel I needed to say it.

being doing that since 2019,never regretted it,if i have a map that i think is ''good enough to be pushed'' i push it,i get no responses?i map any song i like however i like and move on,if you are seriously trying to ''rank a map nowdays'' your approach shouldnt be to focus on the map quality but rather how many connections you have on the mapping scene,i dont and i cannot be bothered tbh,mapping is like a hobby for me so i choose the fun route which is super rewarding to me and less of a headche to deal with.

qwt wrote:

iaport wrote:

I know nobody really is going to notice this, or care much (if at all), but I'm quitting mapping...for rank that is.

After much thought and reflection, I have come to a conclusion that should have been obvious for me, yet I refused to accept it: my maps aren't going to get ranked, no matter how many people support me, there's always gonna be some obstacle, an obstacle that prevents one from ranking a map. Since I mapped Punish (Cut Ver.) I've been tweaking my mapping style, attempting to make it more rankable. However, this has led to me no longer recieving complaints about monotony, but rather the maps being too messy and inconsistent. Granted, this is mostly modders, but the fact that I can't seem to hit a middle ground is destroying my morale, especially because I have been structuring my maps sinse Gunther.

I don't map as a form of expression, nor do I do it to win prizes. I do it for fun, and to make every map better than the last (and maybe get something ranked along the way). That being said, it's become all too clear that there is no right way to map, yet there seems to be a desire for that "right way," whether or not it's 2018, 2021, or 2023 mapping. We can't really agree on anything, and the FuJu situation (and that map wafer recently ranked) is honestly making me realize that the maps being pushed aren't being made for pleasure, they're just made to appease a select few, to achieve a status quo. My maps are generally easy and would probably be farmy if I'm mapping the way I want to, but I don't care about gaining rank, as long as it's clean and fun to play, I'm happy. But the schism forming in this community is disheartening, and I'm not sure I want any part in either side. Therefore, I have come to the difficult decision to stop trying for a ranked map of my own. I might make a Normal GD here and there, but going forward, I will mostly stick to the sidelines. I have never made a map that went above 30 favorites, and those that did were all on other people's sets, and that's okay. Fame may help you get a map ranked, but as long as people like my maps, and they remain fun to play, I'm content, and will remain so.

I'm not even sure why I'm posting this here. Maybe I want people to see it, maybe not. I'm not sure, but it just felt right to post this here. It's messy as all hell, but again, I feel I needed to say it.

BN's rank their friend's maps and already-established mappers, no matter HOW DOGSHIT the map is, even if it does not represent the music properly, it does not matter, they all glaze each other.

if you are a new mapper, you're cooked, or even an experienced mapper who can create quality maps suitable for ranking, every BN will be conveniently closed or busy or not interested for you.

Let's rank another 12* sound Voltex abomination that does not even represent the music... with 20+ GDs all from the same mappers we all know... but the BNs are open for them

You said the quiet parts outloud,be prepared to be cancelled on twitter for being a hater from the angry mobs of the cult leaders

Jokes aside:i agree totally with what you said and i think most people including players knows about how bad the ranking system is yet we still gaslighting (new mappers??) that everything is fine as long as your map is ''good and rankable'' (lmao)

lewski wrote:

supa u cant say that while pumping out maps like a machine

i'm considered low activity compared to the people who started mapping about 2 years ago, have you seen how most of those blokes have like 50 sets within two years? my ass can barely reach 25 sets lmao

i have in fact not seen anything im the guy in the cave

Hinel wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

never map only for ranked, otherwise you will end up frustrated if you don't accomplish that

Always making maps not for ranking, leaving them in graveyards when many of them are ranking-worthy is a bit demotivating, especially if one of the person's goals is to promote their map into ranking, so he's understandable

i believe that mapping for fun first is more important than just mapping for ranked, otherwise what's the point then?

Anaxii wrote:

Hinel wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

never map only for ranked, otherwise you will end up frustrated if you don't accomplish that

Always making maps not for ranking, leaving them in graveyards when many of them are ranking-worthy is a bit demotivating, especially if one of the person's goals is to promote their map into ranking, so he's understandable

i believe that mapping for fun first is more important than just mapping for ranked, otherwise what's the point then?

Mapping for fun and mapping "for ranked" aren't mutually exclusive though. I think most people who map are enjoying the process, regardless of the goal (of course you can also get burned out by mapping but that's another story). The "for ranked" part is mostly what comes after mapping, i. e. making additional difficulties and/or getting GDs, doing hitsounds, asking for mods and looking for BNs and making changes to the map.
I guess all of this can often be draining because it takes a lot of time and effort and can therefore be perceived as "not fun", and when you don't succeed it's frustrating and demotivating. So if you don't even go for ranked at all you can avoid this situation and only keep the "fun" part, but the reality is that for a lot of mappers the objective is to get their maps ranked in the end, so not even trying means giving up on this goal, which is not satisfying either.

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

Hinel wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

never map only for ranked, otherwise you will end up frustrated if you don't accomplish that

Always making maps not for ranking, leaving them in graveyards when many of them are ranking-worthy is a bit demotivating, especially if one of the person's goals is to promote their map into ranking, so he's understandable

i believe that mapping for fun first is more important than just mapping for ranked, otherwise what's the point then?

Mapping for fun and mapping "for ranked" aren't mutually exclusive though. I think most people who map are enjoying the process, regardless of the goal (of course you can also get burned out by mapping but that's another story). The "for ranked" part is mostly what comes after mapping, i. e. making additional difficulties and/or getting GDs, doing hitsounds, asking for mods and looking for BNs and making changes to the map.
I guess all of this can often be draining because it takes a lot of time and effort and can therefore be perceived as "not fun", and when you don't succeed it's frustrating and demotivating. So if you don't even go for ranked at all you can avoid this situation and only keep the "fun" part, but the reality is that for a lot of mappers the objective is to get their maps ranked in the end, so not even trying means giving up on this goal, which is not satisfying either.

this is exactly what comes after that scares me, because most mappers (even the most inexperienced ones) will aim for the goal of having their map ranked because they think their map is good enough to fit in the ranked section. i see so many of them trying so hard and fixing all the issues that modders point out just so in the end, they either feel like their map isn't good enough or they don't feel recognized by anyone so they'll feel frustrated as i said in my original post.

i do believe that if you feel ready to aim for ranked because a lot of people acknowledge your maps and because you get a lot of good reviews on those, it would be a good thing, but it's not the majority who find themselves in this situation unfortunately. the non-fun part only comes by the fact that you're putting so much effort into ranking your map just to that it will be graveyarded and forgotten by everyone like many others.

I think I'm having the same issue too.

I always just kind of give up, because the map is not "rankworthy".

And then I always seem to repeat the same pattern over and over again.

But I think it's probably way too late to try to fix it anyway... -_-

You know it's always these newer years that will never ever take some steps back and listen about the older generations...

I do really hope that ranking a map won't become even more rigged...

But I feel like there's a better chance of ranked and loved maps turning into graveyards, rather than the ranking system getting improved. ;_;