I really believe that the barring of host names in the difficulties is one of the most annoying rules to ever invade the ranking criteria. I should be allowed to name my top diffs "FLUXIE Mix" (especially with O2Jam songs) if I want to without the ranking criteria telling me I can't :/
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[duplicate] [Proposal] Allow host usernames in difficulty names
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it's technically allowed, you just can't indicate possession with it
Topic Starter
Well then "Hey Fluxie!" on my Hey Ya! set should be 100% allowed. But a BN was like "no" because they thought it indicated posession. It's an unfortunate ambiguity that I think really needs to be addressed, and it should favor the mappers who want to include their own username in the difficulty name since it's not really harming anything at all.Hivie wrote:
it's technically allowed, you just can't indicate possession with it
I personally don't think it's ambiguous given that the rule explicitly disallows possession of the difficulty, but not using the name itself. Something like "Hey Fluxie!" would be allowed while another like "Fluxie's Hey Ya!", would not for example.
So long the difficulty name still makes sense and is (somewhat) related to the song, it should be fine.
Remember that you're free to reject a suggestion if it can be proven wrong!
So long the difficulty name still makes sense and is (somewhat) related to the song, it should be fine.
Remember that you're free to reject a suggestion if it can be proven wrong!
those BNs are wrong.Ranking Criteria wrote:
A beatmap host cannot indicate possession in a difficulty's name. (e.g. Beatmap Host's Insane).
I think this is a lot less clear than replies so far are making it out to be. "indicating possession" doesn't have to literally be an apostrophe-S lol. the example OP gave, "FLUXIE Mix", absolutely does indicate possession to me.
regardless can we just delete this pointless rule
regardless can we just delete this pointless rule
I think the rule was meant to be "grammatically possessive". I wish I can use a diffname to indicate a self-collab between two different mapping styles (old vs new), but this rule prevents me to do so since I stated that all aliases on the diffnames are actually my alias.
Better compromise would be lowering this to guideline, so it become "Beatmap host should avoid using possessive difficulty names."
Better compromise would be lowering this to guideline, so it become "Beatmap host should avoid using possessive difficulty names."
I never understood why this rule even existed in the first place, is it that important to distinguish the host from the GD'ers? Who cares whether a difficulty is from a guest or not as long as we can see who made it (which isn't even a requirement).
I still remember the whole Sotarks no Jutsu garbage that was just so beyond me at the time (and still is tbh)
I still remember the whole Sotarks no Jutsu garbage that was just so beyond me at the time (and still is tbh)
Some disambiguation would be very nice, perhaps just replacing the rule with a guideline and adding necessary explanation
Here are my suggestions:
- Remove this ruleA beatmap host cannot indicate possession in a difficulty's name. (e.g. Beatmap Host's Insane). Conflicts caused by beatmapping multiple songs with the same metadata and collaborative difficulties are the only exceptions. Guest difficulties, however, may indicate possession with its creators' username or nickname.
- Add this guidelineA beatmap host shouldn't indicate possession in a difficulty's name. Possessive difficulty names (e.g Mapper's Insane) should be used to distinguish guest difficulty creator's map from the beatmap host. Conflicts caused by mapping multiple songs sharing same metadata and collaborative difficulties are exempt from this guideline.
this topic cooks back up on like a 2 to 3 year timer
we've had this debate a bunch of times before; whether it be about your own maps or guests on your set.
I think historically, this rule is in place because people started dropping any difficulty indication whatsoever from their GDs and just called them val0108, Rin, AngelHoney, etc.
what hivie suggests is - i think - against the spirit of that rule right now (but technically correct)
ref:
community/forums/posts/7332345
community/forums/posts/7332013
community/forums/posts/7331909
@peppy is this still your stance?
we've had this debate a bunch of times before; whether it be about your own maps or guests on your set.
I think historically, this rule is in place because people started dropping any difficulty indication whatsoever from their GDs and just called them val0108, Rin, AngelHoney, etc.
what hivie suggests is - i think - against the spirit of that rule right now (but technically correct)
ref:
community/forums/posts/7332345
community/forums/posts/7332013
community/forums/posts/7331909
@peppy is this still your stance?
Topic Starter
Honestly, I think that Expert level difficulty for those maps was implied to begin with. And those maps were made during a time where more than 125 notes per minute was an automatic 5* and fast maps like Shiirn's chipscape (allegedly) broke the star rating during modding.Okoratu wrote:
this topic cooks back up on like a 2 to 3 year timer
we've had this debate a bunch of times before; whether it be about your own maps or guests on your set.
I think historically, this rule is in place because people started dropping any difficulty indication whatsoever from their GDs and just called them val0108, Rin, AngelHoney, etc.
what hivie suggests is - i think - against the spirit of that rule right now (but technically correct)
ref:
community/forums/posts/7332345
community/forums/posts/7332013
community/forums/posts/7331909
@peppy is this still your stance?
These days, while not strict, difficulty and star rating correlate much better with each other than they did a decade ago, and I would wager that a typical mid-range player isn't gonna care what a difficulty is called as long as it awards them enough PP to move up in the rankings.
I think it's finally time to put the rule to rest.
ehm yeah i know that, i was kinda there for half of it
Like i get you and this proposal, but I'm saying this proposal shouldn't move ahead w/o someone running it by ppy? Yea expert difficulties being exempt from the strictly difficulty denoting names is something different from allowing something that is just mostly a username to be a standalone.
I think his old stance in the posts linked (and the posts linked in that thread) do apply to this proposal overall
Like i get you and this proposal, but I'm saying this proposal shouldn't move ahead w/o someone running it by ppy? Yea expert difficulties being exempt from the strictly difficulty denoting names is something different from allowing something that is just mostly a username to be a standalone.
I think his old stance in the posts linked (and the posts linked in that thread) do apply to this proposal overall
Not to derail too much, but I think the rule forbidding this can finally retire since we have a real difficulty rating system now as opposed to everything above a Hard instantly getting the 5 star trophy. It was a solution to a problem that no longer exists. At the very least,Okoratu wrote:
I think historically, this rule is in place because people started dropping any difficulty indication whatsoever from their GDs and just called them val0108, Rin, AngelHoney, etc.
this rule should override it, because they seem to contradict each other.Ranking Criteria wrote:
- Difficulty names in a beatmap must be clearly progressive and accurately indicating of their respective difficulties, excluding: The highest difficulty of each game mode. [...]
There's two rules here, one is not indicating host possession (Host's Insane) and one is diffname not solely consisting of the mapper's name. I think the first rule makes sense because the default assumption is that whoever hosted the set mapped any unattributed difficulties, and it looks weird to claim possession of a difficulty in your own set already. I personally like the second rule as well because I think that custom difficulty names should be related to the song in some way rather than just being the mapper's name because they want to cosplay 2013 Chinese mappers.
Just for clarification, I'm okay with the first rule too. The second rule is something I thought about for a while so I took the opportunity to say something when Oko mentioned it, but I'll save further discussion about it for a separate thread.Nao Tomori wrote:
There's two rules here, one is not indicating host possession (Host's Insane) and one is diffname not solely consisting of the mapper's name. I think the first rule makes sense because the default assumption is that whoever hosted the set mapped any unattributed difficulties, and it looks weird to claim possession of a difficulty in your own set already. I personally like the second rule as well because I think that custom difficulty names should be related to the song in some way rather than just being the mapper's name because they want to cosplay 2013 Chinese mappers.
edit: oops clayton and I posted at the same time ok weeeee
there are 4 difficulty-name-related rules right next to each other that make this whole thing really confusing -- not only are the actual allowances vague (as demonstrated by the "possession" discussion at the beginning of this thread, and BaAR_Vendel's previous thread), the reasoning for these various rules and how they interact is not at all clear.
since the scope of this thread seems to be broadening to all of those difficulty naming rules, I will repeat my thing about OP's diff name but now looking at this whole block in RC:
checking against RC:
these rules are due for a rewrite regardless, but especially so if a diff name like "FLUXIE Mix" is intended to be allowed.
and I will spare it for now but I could go on a whole other rant about how stupid it is that we pretend a mapper's name is somehow any less of a difficulty indicator than a fucking poem or a literal line of code or a reference to a video game with a playerbase overlapping like 0.1% with osu
since the scope of this thread seems to be broadening to all of those difficulty naming rules, I will repeat my thing about OP's diff name but now looking at this whole block in RC:
take the diff name FLUXIE Mix from beginning of this thread. the immediate reaction from 2 NAT members is that this would be allowed. according to OP, some amount of BNs did not agree. anecdotally, I've encountered other mappers frustrated that they can't use a diff name like this, yet haven't heard of any players dissatisfied with them (in previously ranked maps).RC (numbers added for reference) wrote:
1. Difficulty names in a beatmap must be clearly progressive and accurately indicating of their respective difficulties, excluding:2. A beatmap's custom difficulty naming must follow a common theme or pattern related to the song or difficulty and must not be misrepresentative. A difficulty name is misrepresentative if it implies a different difficulty level (e.g. naming an "Expert" difficulty as "Normal").
- The highest difficulty of each game mode.
- The highest difficulties of each game mode with a similar level of difficulty, applying only to Insane and Extra difficulties (e.g. the Insane difficulties of a ENHIIII set or the Extra difficulties of a ENHIIXXX set).
3. A difficulty's name must not solely consist of one or more usernames. Words that happen to be usernames are acceptable within difficulty names as long as they relate to the song.
4. A beatmap host cannot indicate possession in a difficulty's name. (e.g. Beatmap Host's Insane). Conflicts caused by beatmapping multiple songs with the same metadata and collaborative difficulties are the only exceptions. Guest difficulties, however, may indicate possession with its creators' username or nickname.
checking against RC:
- allowed, as long as it's the top diff
- allowed, as long as you consider the fact of writing the mapper's name + "Mix" to be "related to the song or difficulty". this is not always interpreted that way, see Nao Tomori opinion above for example, even though this isn't the exact rule they were talking about.
- allowed, but this is almost certainly only by technicality of the wording and not supportive of the rule's intention. "Mix" is more or less a filler word and doesn't change that all the diff name is saying is the creator
- allowed, as long as you interpret "possession" to be in a purely grammatical sense. I will just say this seems ridiculous because it implies "FLUXIE Mix" should be allowed while "FLUXIE's Mix" should not... as if there is a meaningful difference in form or function
these rules are due for a rewrite regardless, but especially so if a diff name like "FLUXIE Mix" is intended to be allowed.
and I will spare it for now but I could go on a whole other rant about how stupid it is that we pretend a mapper's name is somehow any less of a difficulty indicator than a fucking poem or a literal line of code or a reference to a video game with a playerbase overlapping like 0.1% with osu
There is some crucial context that the OP missed for the "Hey Fluxie!" difficulty name scenario: there were multiple other guest difficulties on the set that used this format to indicate possession (e.g. "Hey AJT!"). It makes complete sense to assume that "Hey Fluxie" would carry the same purpose, hence why I decided that the rule applied.
Topic Starter
Apologies for not providing that context initially.moonpoint wrote:
There is some crucial context that the OP missed for the "Hey Fluxie!" difficulty name scenario: there were multiple other guest difficulties on the set that used this format to indicate possession (e.g. "Hey AJT!"). It makes complete sense to assume that "Hey Fluxie" would carry the same purpose, hence why I decided that the rule applied.
Dude, early western mappers did this thing too. It's not "2013 Chinese mappers." People only don't do it anymore because it was banned.Nao Tomori wrote:
because they want to cosplay 2013 Chinese mappers.
i'm ngl as long as diffname has an actual connection with the song it's already fine; plenty of maps have gone down this path and i really don't see how confusion can be created per se.
beatmapsets/326920 mapper name diff, but it's also topdiff which allows custom naming
beatmapsets/2014469 mapper name diff, but it's also topdiff which allows custom naming
and plenty more, there's too little of this
the point being is that i'm all for the removal of this rule but if mapper names were to be put into the mix, there should be a direct connection to the song in some way- song title or song lyrics. assuming if a mapper wants to put their name like 2013 chinese mappers on a topdiff with barely no connection it just doesn't make sense
beatmapsets/326920 mapper name diff, but it's also topdiff which allows custom naming
beatmapsets/2014469 mapper name diff, but it's also topdiff which allows custom naming
and plenty more, there's too little of this
the point being is that i'm all for the removal of this rule but if mapper names were to be put into the mix, there should be a direct connection to the song in some way- song title or song lyrics. assuming if a mapper wants to put their name like 2013 chinese mappers on a topdiff with barely no connection it just doesn't make sense