YepZenithPhantasm wrote:
Why not seperate mouse and tablet rankings too?
YepZenithPhantasm wrote:
Why not seperate mouse and tablet rankings too?
How would you do that?...gameon123321 wrote:
Well, what if there were separate boards for touch and non-touch players? That way, you could respect the scores that mouse/tablet players earn while keeping track of the touch scores (and the touch scores would not give pp, or give pp on a different scale.)
Also, wouldn't touch players jump directly to the spot at the same time they hit, whereas mouse and tablet players would have a gradual cursor movement? There should be a way to tell the two apart. (Of course, there is dragging, but in that case, the touchscreen has the same limitations as a mouse or tablet.)
Even if it's too hard to program a detection method inside the game, there is always the option of osu scanning for touchscreen inputs. Or, people could just voluntarily say that they are using touchscreens instead of mice or tablets.
Gumpyyy wrote:
How would you do that?...gameon123321 wrote:
Well, what if there were separate boards for touch and non-touch players? That way, you could respect the scores that mouse/tablet players earn while keeping track of the touch scores (and the touch scores would not give pp, or give pp on a different scale.)
Also, wouldn't touch players jump directly to the spot at the same time they hit, whereas mouse and tablet players would have a gradual cursor movement? There should be a way to tell the two apart. (Of course, there is dragging, but in that case, the touchscreen has the same limitations as a mouse or tablet.)
Even if it's too hard to program a detection method inside the game, there is always the option of osu scanning for touchscreen inputs. Or, people could just voluntarily say that they are using touchscreens instead of mice or tablets.
Well, a touchscreen can't register a finger unless it's touching the screen. Therefore, when you tap with different fingers to aim, the cursor would skip directly from one position to another, instead of gradually moving there. That's what I meant.Rewben2 wrote:
I still don't think it can be done reliably, Tom has said so anyways. Also, what can you do about people swapping devices part-way through a play?gameon123321 wrote:
Well, what if there were separate boards for touch and non-touch players? That way, you could respect the scores that mouse/tablet players earn while keeping track of the touch scores (and the touch scores would not give pp, or give pp on a different scale.)
Also, wouldn't touch players jump directly to the spot at the same time they hit, whereas mouse and tablet players would have a gradual cursor movement? There should be a way to tell the two apart. (Of course, there is dragging, but in that case, the touchscreen has the same limitations as a mouse or tablet.)
Even if it's too hard to program a detection method inside the game, there is always the option of osu scanning for touchscreen inputs. Or, people could just voluntarily say that they are using touchscreens instead of mice or tablets.
Guess how rapid motions at low framerate look like? Right, like teleportation, just like touch screens. Not reliable.gameon123321 wrote:
Well, a touchscreen can't register a finger unless it's touching the screen. Therefore, when you tap with different fingers to aim, the cursor would skip directly from one position to another, instead of gradually moving there. That's what I meant.
Plus, when an input device is plugged in, it usually has a name. What if osu checked for keywords, or complied a list of touch devices? Then, when a device is connected, osu can see if it's a touchscreen.
IF it was possible to detect device used on certain parts with 100% certainty - you could simply disallow multi-device scores for submission. Normally people play through a single map without changing from touchscreen to tablet/mouse midway, so enforcing that doesn't sound unfair for simply playing as intended with whatever playstyle.Tom94 wrote:
That being said, even if we could detect input device types with 100% certainty - how should we tackle scores that switch between input devices mid-play?
How would it know if you both a tablet and a mouse connected to the PC at the same time?Drezi wrote:
IF it was possible to detect device used on certain parts with 100% certainty - you could simply disallow multi-device scores for submission. Normally people play through a single map without changing from touchscreen to tablet/mouse midway, so enforcing that doesn't sound unfair for simply playing as intended with whatever playstyle.
Yay for 3000pp.Riince wrote:
that speed buff <3 exactly +50 pp, i wonder what my scores will look like once they're re-weighted...
Seems like TV Size doesn't pay off anymore.XgenSlayer wrote:
R.I.P hvick's 9000pp O_O
Doesn't make any sense since nothing in the changelogs was said about nerfing tv sizes. if anything they wanted to nerf longer maps. they just nerfed ar10.3 since the scaling starts at 10.3 now which started 10 before. this means they nerfed all dt scores on ar 9 maps.[-Cloud-] wrote:
Seems like TV Size doesn't pay off anymore.XgenSlayer wrote:
R.I.P hvick's 9000pp O_O
I can't wait for rrtyui playing a map.
How does tv size have to do anything with him losing rank? Explain please. TV Size doesn't automatically equal AR9. On the other hand let me add they buffed smaller cs which makes HR scores on CS5 maps more interesting. Again, does that mean Tv sizes are worth less in general? No. In fact, CS5 HR plays are weighted stronger.[-Cloud-] wrote:
Guess what hvick farmed the most. Yes, the answer is TV Size AR9 maps. Good job, billy.
AR9 TV Sizes + DT are indeed worth slightly less in general, at least that's what it looks like, 513 -> 489pp on hoshizora for example, despite ALL maps giving more pp overall.Infevo wrote:
How does tv size have to do anything with him losing rank? Explain please. TV Size doesn't automatically equal AR9. On the other hand let me add they buffed smaller cs which makes HR scores on CS5 maps more interesting. Again, does that mean Tv sizes are worth less in general? No. In fact, CS5 HR plays are weighted stronger.[-Cloud-] wrote:
Guess what hvick farmed the most. Yes, the answer is TV Size AR9 maps. Good job, billy.
Totally aware of his plays. It is just your generalization is not right as you made it. Some of the best plays are still short versions/short maps/tv sizes with AR9 and dt. They didn't get any less impressive than before the update. It is just they balanced dt out with hr and I explained in how far.[-Cloud-] wrote:
On his grind to #1, hvick played mostly TV Size DT (Not only, but a lot) and now he's basically completely nerfed.
In case you didn't get it yet. hvick spammed a shitton 10.3, that's it. DH will drop soon aynways.
No, I didnt ask anything about him dropping in particular. I wanted you to give reasons for why short sized maps would not "pay off" anymore which is plainly wrong considering my reasoning.[-Cloud-] wrote:
You asked about his drop in the rankings, not about how impressive his plays are. They are indeed impressive, but the played way too much of short AR9, which got nerfed right now. So it's no wonder he lost that much PP.
How does tv size have to do anything with him losing rank? Explain please.He spammed shitty TV Sizes and now he lost fucking pp due to the 10.3 nerf. What's not understandable here? I just answered your question.
hej some of those maps are pretty fun but i agree overrated more often than not. of course its worth mentioning that a 5 star tv size has more measured difficulty than any equal duration segment of, say, a 4-5 minute 5 star map[-Cloud-] wrote:
shitty
ok, man nvm. let's make a cut right here.[-Cloud-] wrote:
How does tv size have to do anything with him losing rank? Explain please.He spammed shitty TV Sizes and now he lost fucking pp due to the 10.3 nerf. What's not understandable here? I just answered your question.
um 0.5% is a lot...Zemroid wrote:
only 0.5%.
if you dont get way worse acc like that, its a decent bit more PP, but obviously not that much since it doesnt actually increase difficulty of the map just adds a small aim pp bonus.Zemroid wrote:
not a single reason why someone would like to FC the map with HD when you get no pp at all from it even though it is harder to do. Can someone explain the logic behind this?
Hidden is very well worth it on aim intensive maps as it gives a flat bonus to your aim pp. This means it's especially rewarding on jumpy maps. The map you played is probably not very aim intensive, and thus hidden has a very small effect on your final pp. On easier maps accuracy is the most important aspect as far as pp goes I believe.Zemroid wrote:
Even if I didn't get those extra 2 100's, I doubt I would've gotten more than 83 or 84pp which seems not worth it at all.
1-2 100's is also huge on short maps where they have a big effect on overall acc, had i not gotten 2 100's on natsu no hi, that play probably would have jumped up by like 10-15pp.koromo wrote:
Hidden is very well worth it on aim intensive maps as it gives a flat bonus to your aim pp. This means it's especially rewarding on jumpy maps. The map you played is probably not very aim intensive, and thus hidden has a very small effect on your final pp. On easier maps accuracy is the most important aspect as far as pp goes I believe.Zemroid wrote:
Even if I didn't get those extra 2 100's, I doubt I would've gotten more than 83 or 84pp which seems not worth it at all.
The fact you never got an SS rank kinda shows it's not so easy to achieve, which must be the reason why it's rewarding. Usually when I get over 99% I still mess up some parts of the song and am not really satisfied with my play, so think about how many mistakes you make when you get 90% plays and ask yourself if you really think they should be worth a lot.Aureal3D wrote:
I am 16k player,i NEVER gain SS rank in my life.I started to play from hard's and insanes(i dont ever play easy\normal maps).I can't understand WHY accuracy is so important.
Actually I'm pretty sure you would, but I think it depends on how offbeat the 100s are.Aureal3D wrote:
If i record the sound of 99% OD 10 play and the sound of 95% play you would not hear the difference!
Doing this will not get you very far though since pp are weighted and there's a point where you don't gain a single pp from SSing hards anymore. HR makes accuracy more difficult so it obviously won't be very rewarding if you aren't accurate.Aureal3D wrote:
This main issue is that you can FARM easy maps on fullmod or just
gain SS on hard maps and have the same PP as you get for 90% on insane map with HR
This is a horrible idea. Let's say you would get 530pp for an SS on Freedom Dive with a 30pp SS bonus so 500pp for 99%, this would mean if you hit only 50s and get about 15% acc, you'd still gain over 400p for the play. The way the current pp system works is quite similar to what you described, but the pp you get for 1% acc will be higher the closer you get to SS, which makes way more sense.Aureal3D wrote:
Or combo based system where 1%pp=1%accuracy with some bonus for SS.
His accuracy is worse than yours, so unless I've misunderstood something, this makes no sense and contradicts everything you've said so far.Aureal3D wrote:
Example of players,that play on higher rank because of accuracy (https://osu.ppy.sh/u/4982855 and https://osu.ppy.sh/u/Cooperca)
Unlike HR and DT, HD usually doesn't make things harder at all, it just makes the game different. HD has no influence on any of the difficulty settings, so once you are used to playing with it, it shouldn't really be any harder than playing without mods. You could therefore say it's actually the easiest mod in the game once you're used to it. Try playing a map with only HR, only DT and then only HD, your best play will probably be the HD one. I could be wrong about this though because I never really play HD so you could say I don't know what I'm talking about.Aureal3D wrote:
The second issue is HD mod.In accuracy-based system accuracy is everything as i said later.HD is a mod which helps you to get more 100s and 50s,basically mod which helps to get worth accuracy.This mod is the hardest mod in game.
But you get about 6% bonus for that?This mod would give more bonus because its really hard to get accuracy with this mod.So the main issue that this mod is no worth to play with,because its about 40% harder to play with it and bonus is only 6%.
If some asian guy is good at streaming 200bpm from day one and you're still bad at it even after a year of playing, he's obviously lucky to have that skill from the start but that doesn't mean you should complain because it's unfair. Just deal with it and take the time to learn streams, there will always be people who are naturally better than you at certain things. I could say jumps are overrated because an FC on Granat gives more pp than SSing Macuilxochitl which to me is a lot harder, but that's just because my aim is better than my streaming. If you think the map you linked gives a lot of pp and can easily be FCd, go ahead and do it instead of complaining, otherwise you just seem like you're mad because you're not good at certain things that happen to be rewarding. It reminds me of people who complain about DT "farming" and call it easy but aren't actually able to play with the mod at all.Aureal3D wrote:
Stream farming should be nerfed(there are a lot of players mostly asian players who can stream 200bpm as they start playing osu,i can't stream over 150 bpm at 16k rank and 1 year of playing).There are a lot of maps like that(https://osu.ppy.sh/b/116128),
which you can FC using doubletap(press z and x at the same time) or tap technique and this maps gives a lot of pp.
tiny circles and spaced streams not buffed enough? eh? https://osu.ppy.sh/b/115384?m=0 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/111302?m=0Purple wrote:
Lets not degenerate into thinking that PP is the true absolute way of determining skill, remember that it doesn't account at all for reading difficulty
pretty much half the top 10 have a shit-ton of good/incredible scores on underrated maps, hvick included
OT: The cs buff is welcome but it only affects the aim component. I know it's probably hard to fix with the way map difficulty is calculated but that means that maps with tiny circles and very spaced streams don't get benefited from it as much as they should
Examples would be snow storm euphoria
Ievan Polkka Trance Remix
Rubik's Cube
Guillaume Tell
Dragonforce maps... etc
Edit: Just realized the same could be said about HD