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[web] Mappers Ranking

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +35
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Topic Starter
Wafu
Since Mappers ranking is kind of outdated, it needs few changes. Currently it needs really big changes and needs to be more important in osu! than it is now.

Firstly it needs to be whole reworked.
It would be giving:

  1. 50 points for a ranked beatmap + score*2 (For example, I rank map with 9.2 score, it will give me 68 points)
  2. 25 points for a pending beatmap
  3. If a map gets a bubble, the BAT who's given it is able to rate the quality of the map (as normal ranking, from 1 to 10), this will be shown in his post. BAT who ranked the map is able to vote too. In final it will give you both scores*4 in points (min. 8, max. 80). (If one BAT rated 10, second 9, and ranking from normal people is 9.2, it will give you 144 points). If 2 BATs already voted, 3rd cannot vote! (in case of approved beatmaps). If bubble is popped, his vote doesn't count, he needs to rebubble or keep it for another BAT. At least one BAT must vote the map, in that case his score is not multipled my 4, but 8, to be fair. If the beatmap has no votes and is ranked, any BAT is able to vote it, if it has only one vote, he can obviously vote too.
    These votes don't count together with normal rating from people who played the map.
  4. If pending beatmap stays 30 days unranked, it won't give points anymore, only when it gets ranked.
That is how would points work, current counting is really stupid. For example this guy is in the ranking, with 0 ranked maps and 2 graveyarded. Some mappers (counting even me) are in this ranking even if they have more ranked, pending and even graveyarded beatmaps.

Mappers without ranked maps are not shown on this list!

Second thing I wanted to recommend is that if you click on "Beatmaps" on someone's profile, you will see how many points he has and what mapper rank you are. There was even a request about this, so I wanted to split it together to one.

I've made this topic, because we have working: Performance ranking, Score ranking, Kudosu ranking and BAT ranking, but Mappers ranking is only one that doesn't work and nobody does anything with it, even if some mappers would appreciate to know how good compared to others are they. Even players mostly care about their ranks, so why should be mappers kicked off?

I think if this ever was implemented in game, it shoud be getting improved throughout the time like Performance ranking.
It definitely doesn't deserve to be deleted, but improved!
Last edited by Wafu , edited 2 times in total.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Wafu wrote:

  1. 25 points for a graveyarded beatmap
Why? Personally if a map goes to the graveyard it's a sign that the mapper won't finish the map or isn't able to finish.

Well, my statement to this feature: Absolutely yes, the Mapper Ranking needs to be revamped because it's currently extremly inaccurate and bad. The main issue is that it depends too much on the total Star Rating from all Beatmaps together from a mapper - which is as we know not a good degree of Quality confirming. Let me add some things to the OP (if you don't mind):

- People without any ranked Maps should not appear in the list. phoebechoi1130 has no Beatmap, ranked nor graveyarded and got a better Rating as people with ranked Maps.

- Star Rating can still be counted into the calculation but should cause a much lower percentage to the Score as currently. Not everyone who got a high Score got it because their Maps are "good". :P

- If the amount of unranked Maps compared to the ranked Maps is fairly high then the score should be decreased. [whoooopsie]

- Attached to the second point I've named the more people rates a single Map good it should make a little difference to the percentage what will be added to the score. However it shouldn't be too big because popular maps migh getting better Rates.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
pls no, we don't need another e-peen scale.

On a more serious note:
Mappers themselves knows who is a good mapper, who is bad, regardless of the amount of ranked beatmaps.

We have bad maps ranked, good maps graveyarded, so this would be unaccurate and misleading for some people, especially newbies.

I really doubt most of actual mappers would care about a ranking (this is from my point of view), so this its pretty much pointless IMO.

If we need to do something with the actual mapper ranking, it's updating it with the actual data or deleting it.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Topic Starter
Wafu

Stefan wrote:

Well, my statement to this feature: Absolutely yes, the Mapper Ranking needs to be revamped because it's currently extremly inaccurate and bad. The main issue is that it depends too much on the total Star Rating from all Beatmaps together from a mapper - which is as we know not a good degree of Quality confirming. Let me add some things to the OP (if you don't mind):

- People without any ranked Maps should not appear in the list. phoebechoi1130 has no Beatmap, ranked nor graveyarded and got a better Rating as people with ranked Maps. Sure.

- Star Rating can still be counted into the calculation but should cause a much lower percentage to the Score as currently. Not everyone who got a high Score got it because their Maps are "good". :P Changed the ratio from 10 to 5. It was giving almost the same amount as was giving the rank itself, so yup, it should be decreased a lot

- If the amount of unranked Maps compared to the ranked Maps is fairly high then the score should be decreased. [whoooopsie]I disagree with this. There is a lot of mappers which submit maps that are not for a rank and keeps it in graveyard. It could force some mappers to remove their maps to get higher score.

- Attached to the second point I've named the more people rates a single Map good it should make a little difference to the percentage what will be added to the score. However it shouldn't be too big because popular maps migh getting better Rates.
To non-ranked I'll keep 50 points for each pending map for 30 days. Now I even realize it is bullshit to give points for graveyarded map. Not because most mappers won't map it more, but because you'd be able to farm it by uploading biggest possible amount of pending maps one day, then after one month you'd graveyard it and upload pending maps again, so it would give you enough of points. Deleted graveyard points.

Also added one more suggestion to prevent good maps to be giving less points, because people rated it bad.

DakeDekaane wrote:

pls no, we don't need another e-peen scale. PLOX

On a more serious note:
Mappers themselves knows who is a good mapper, who is bad, regardless of the amount of ranked beatmaps.

We have bad maps ranked, good maps graveyarded, so this would be unaccurate and misleading for some people, especially newbies.

I really doubt most of actual mappers would care about a ranking (this is from my point of view), so this its pretty much pointless IMO.

If we need to do something with the actual mapper ranking, it's updating it with the actual data or deleting it.
I will agree with this, after whole "Rankings" tab is deleted from website, we won't get score from beatmaps and there won't be scoreboards. No pp, no accuracy. Only thing that will work will be multiplayer so it will compare CURRENT skills of players. Mappers themselves know who is a good mapper, same the players do, they know who is bad and who is good player, so why there should be ranking?

Also you said it yourself. Mappers know who is good mapper. Players don't, so they can find better mappers by mappers ranking to take higher quality maps.
Myke B
1,074 posts
Joined April 2012
Myke B
I love E-Peen charts. I support you not with stars, but with my words. <3 (no stars, sorry lol.)
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
how does having a point system which majority of points are given to popular maps/mappers going to help new players find quality maps?
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
I thought mappers map for fun, not for rank.
Myke B
1,074 posts
Joined April 2012
Myke B

Raging Bull wrote:

I thought mappers map for fun, not for rank.
Clearly not all.
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,532 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
It will just make another reason for people to just want tons of their beatmaps ranked and get many points to be top of another ranking leaderboard.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Topic Starter
Wafu

buny wrote:

how does having a point system which majority of points are given to popular maps/mappers going to help new players find quality maps?
I don't know whether some people are drunk when they post, or they just cannot read a whole post. lol

Raging Bull wrote:

I thought mappers map for fun, not for rank.
There was always Mappers Ranking, why delete it, if we have even player ranking. At least mappers ranking will be rated fairly, and will prove quality, if you will look on ratio ranked maps:points. Currently performance ranking or score ranking doesn't say anything about how the player is good, so why couldn't be mappers ranking upgraded?

neonat wrote:

It will just make another reason for people to just want tons of their beatmaps ranked and get many points to be top of another ranking leaderboard.
If you would read whole post, as I mentioned to someone above, you would see it still scales with count of ranked beatmaps (even that shows mapper's abilities), but if you have good ratio of points:ranked maps, poeple can recognize you are really good mapper. BATs who will vote the map will afflict much how high will the mapper climb with his map. If he will be ranking tons of maps fastly mapped, they will be rated worse than if they would have high quality.

And I a bit changed how much points should we get for what now, so it won't be much afflicted by player votes and rank itself.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
implying popularity doesn't affect how good the map is going to be rated

the whole reason for mappers not having a ranking system like the ACTUAL game is because mapping shouldn't be something to be doing competitively, but rather just for the aspect of creating something new and for fun. I really don't understand why you're trying to make a system that's going to be easily one sided (popular mappers would definitely get most points, because they rank a lot of maps and people tend to overrate certain mappers).

This idea also encourages getting maps ranked, but what we need are more modders, not mappers.
if anything, the kd system should be reworked to balance out the different amounts of effort put into each mod. But it's too late to change anything now
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
wow why the hate on this guy

Wafu wrote:

I've made this topic, because we have working: Performance ranking, Score ranking, Kudosu ranking and BAT ranking
BAT ranking hasn't been updated in months
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

Lust wrote:

wow why the hate on this guy

Wafu wrote:

I've made this topic, because we have working: Performance ranking, Score ranking, Kudosu ranking and BAT ranking
BAT ranking hasn't been updated in months
pretty hilarious though


anyways, i just don't think it's worth updating a system that i doubt any more people are going to be using.
Alarido
1,744 posts
Joined September 2012
Alarido
I can't say in behalf of others or even of 'the majority' of mappers, then I'll say why I map:

I map a song because I like it. And, fortunately, somewhen in the past I'd found osu! and started map in no time. Since that day, I found a way I'd been looking for materialize my psychedelism I've every time I hear one of my favorites. Mapping became to me a form of art, very suitable to my psychic needs of expression of my abstract thoughts and feelings. These ones, embodied and combined with the map itself, give to players an unique experience of taste my abstract thoughts and feelings, no matter they like or hate, no matter they agree or disagree. So a 'Mappers Ranking Chart' doesn't mean anything to me, unless for curiosity (as anyone skimming a horoscope, even without believing it).
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
wow thats a very trippy way of explaining your feelings alarido
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
Fix star rating first pls. ;/
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Topic Starter
Wafu

Tidek wrote:

Fix star rating first pls. ;/
wrong section lel
Rakuen
1,654 posts
Joined March 2013
Rakuen
Here's my opinion, read at your will

It's an interesting idea

But I agree with this:

buny wrote:

implying popularity doesn't affect how good the map is going to be rated
Firstly, ranked beatmaps include some old maps with no standard mapping skills yet
With an extra from rating such as 2x of rating points doesn't make sense, anyone could rate your map with low marks even how pretty and how awesome is your mapping skill. Why? cuz they may not like the song and your mapping skills, not everyone has the same view

I don't suggest that graveyarding a beatmap gets points, it would be unfair
Some of the mappers just mapped and then gave up, as result it's kept forever in graveyard, free points
Although it's a good idea of getting new players to try mapping, but it conflicts with the other suggestions

Wafu wrote:

  1. If pending beatmap stays 30 days unranked, it won't give points anymore, only when it gets ranked.
^ I disagree without writing my reason

In conclusion, mappers have their own mapping style and their own creativity
But of course only at a standard of mapping skill can make the map to be ranked / approved
If there's no BATs like your mapping skills at the moment, then how will your map ranked?

That's all, hope it helps
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Topic Starter
Wafu
If he likes the style, it doesn't mean he needs to vote 10. 5 and more is irl good rating, less is bad.
Let's say he will vote 5 - rankable, technically no problems, but simple style or something, 6 - good map, no issues, style uses blankets and clear shapes, 7 - natural flow, 8 - map is consistent, 9 - map is sensible 10 - map has nothing to point out. This is how should EVERYONE vote irl, but a lot of players just vote 0 or 10, because they don't judge things I said. BATs are more reliable than players, so that's why they should vote it.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
BATs, reliable?! Why put more workload on them when most of them do not have time to mod
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Topic Starter
Wafu

Lust wrote:

BATs, reliable?! Why put more workload on them when most of them do not have time to mod
I don't think it is tragedy to press one more button in bubble's post.. lol
Oyatsu
1,909 posts
Joined December 2012
Oyatsu
/me likes this! :D
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust

Wafu wrote:

Lust wrote:

BATs, reliable?! Why put more workload on them when most of them do not have time to mod
I don't think it is tragedy to press one more button in bubble's post.. lol
They would have to analyze the beatmap again to see what rating it would fall under. And I'm sure not just a single BAT would be looking over a mapset, thats why we have the bubble-rank system as a check and balance, to make sure no mistakes slip through the cracks (they still do).
Frostmourne
osu! Alumni
3,733 posts
Joined November 2009
Frostmourne
I don't like because I don't want to vote. Maps will be just based on BATs' opinion which isn't that reliable.
That will just cause biasing.
[Luanny]
8,248 posts
Joined April 2011
[Luanny]
great, now mappers would have something to farm, too!
~mapper pp~
everybody speedranking dem 2 diff spreads to farm points
I can see where this is going.
I also agree with Frost, it will be totally biased
cheesiest
721 posts
Joined September 2009
cheesiest
I have to disagree w/ the idea of a Mapper's Ranking

[Luanny] wrote:

great, now mappers would have something to farm, too!
~mapper pp~
everybody speedranking dem 2 diff spreads to farm points
I can see where this is going.
I also agree with Frost, it will be totally biased

Frostmourne wrote:

I don't like because I don't want to vote. Maps will be just based on BATs' opinion which isn't that reliable.
That will just cause biasing.
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,532 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
Let's be content that we contribute whatever we can to what we can play on osu! \o/
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Topic Starter
Wafu
That's all about realization. Why do we have pp if it does not judge player's skill right and never will? And why is there broken, non-updated Mappers Ranking. Either make both rankings work, or delete both. That's all.
[CSGA]Ar3sgice
4,298 posts
Joined July 2011
[CSGA]Ar3sgice
Andrea will still get #1 anyways
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

[CSGA]Ar3sgice wrote:

Andrea will still get #1 anyways
then the ranking will still be flawed ( o.o)
/me runs
S o h
Global Moderator
161 posts
Joined January 2013
S o h
I think a total average of the map rating would be sufficient to rank mappers. The 1-10 star rating.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Topic Starter
Wafu

Souen- wrote:

I think a total average of the map rating would be sufficient to rank mappers. The 1-10 star rating.
1-10? You mean 1 or 10. This is how people vote. lol
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Dexus
uhhh? http://osu.ppy.sh/p/mapperranking

I don't really know but that page is there. Is this what you're asking for?
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust

Dexus wrote:

uhhh? http://osu.ppy.sh/p/mapperranking

I don't really know but that page is there. Is this what you're asking for?
did you even read the thread
Flower
1,723 posts
Joined August 2011
Flower
The problem is not that the mapper ranking is flawed, or something.

It's a must to at least make it up-to-date. After beatmap file format v10, new mappers are not listed on the ranking chart. (So do I, lol.)

After that, we could discuss further calculation.
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
BUMP
I really want this
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