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[Guideline Change] Combo Usage

posted
Total Posts
14
Avena
2,158 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
Avena
At the moment, the guideline is like so
Use new combos often and intelligently. Using a new combo every few beats wouldn't make sense, but you also want to avoid long combos that continue for many measures.
In my opinion, this should be changed to something like this
Use new combos in a consistent and logical way, such as every certain amount of time or at the beginning of a new measure. Using a new combo as a way to measure a new visual pattern is heavily discouraged due to its effects on the HP Drain and overall consistency of the map's combos.
Excuse my horrible english, but I think this change could prevent issues where people use new combos because "it looks nice" without knowing that it cripples the HP Drain of their map.
This can also help new mappers who might be confused with the correct usage of new combos, mainly common mistakes like putting a new combo every X amount of notes instead of beats or just putting it in ways that don't follow the music correctly (eg. using a new combo every 3 beats even though the song is 4/4)
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu
Totally disagree. Combo art would fall away, through it can make your beatmap so awesome, if you know to use it (grumd). Consistency is good, but it cannot be used in every song, so I disagree.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
In the first line, Combo art/creative combo pattern would suffer and the new rule would only affect to Beatmaps by newer mappers. However the modding process should fix these things and Modder will in the most case clarify the mapper how to use NC correctly.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu
To be honest, I think if NCs don't fit, modding will fix it, there's no need for rule or guideline.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
I don't know what you guys refer to "Combo art", but yes, modding process is the way to fix all the misplaced combos, as a guideline it would confuse newbie mappers.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu

DakeDekaane wrote:

I don't know what you guys refer to "Combo art", but yes, modding process is the way to fix all the misplaced combos, as a guideline it would confuse newbie mappers.
Combo art - Let's say whole map is gray, but one kind of note has NC where it doesn't need to be, but it is yellow for example to emphasize the note, because there is something what needs to emphasize in music and it can make your map really good, so this rule would just ruin some maps :)
Avena
2,158 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
Avena

Wafu wrote:

DakeDekaane wrote:

I don't know what you guys refer to "Combo art", but yes, modding process is the way to fix all the misplaced combos, as a guideline it would confuse newbie mappers.
Combo art - Let's say whole map is gray, but one kind of note has NC where it doesn't need to be, but it is yellow for example to emphasize the note, because there is something what needs to emphasize in music and it can make your map really good, so this rule would just ruin some maps :)
Its a guideline, not a rule.
Guidelines get broken in like 60% of today's maps, because they are just guidelines.
Lets say you have a coloring book, its guidelines say you should make the coloring as realistic as you can and have it make sense, but you can make purple apples and indigo grass if you want to.
I want this guideline change mainly for better explanation of combo usage rather than have it as a new rule that forces you to have it every new measure.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu
Okay. I will say it as simple as it is possible. This doesn't need a rule or guideline, it is obvious. Look at this: https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Beatmap_Approval to get bubble, you need to meet ranking cirteria AND there is also written this: The beatmap meets overall quality standards that aren't part of the Ranking Criteria.

So at the end of that all, BAT will always point it out if it doesn't really fit.
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those
Then you always have that argument that "it's not in the rules so no change".
Also take into consideration the ridiculously high leniency of some BAT members.

If common sense was actually common, no rules would need to exist.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu

those wrote:

Then you always have that argument that "it's not in the rules so no change".
Also take into consideration the ridiculously high leniency of some BAT members.

If common sense was actually common, no rules would need to exist.
Well.. I can say one, if this should be a rule or a guideline, it should sound like this:

You must place only sensible new combos and they always have to fit the music. If they are able to be, they should be consistent.
And that's all. Original version almost told you combo art is bad. Who played Shiirn's map, knows how it fits to the music. If it is used, it has to have good efficiency, if it is random, it shouldn't be rankable.
However I've always seen BATs mentioning random NCs in their mods, but some don't care about consistency, that's truth.
Kodora
Kodora

Wafu wrote:

Totally disagree. Combo art would fall away, through it can make your beatmap so awesome, if you know to use it (grumd). Consistency is good, but it cannot be used in every song, so I disagree.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/28158
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/16457
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/31119
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/10406

There is no anything wrong with current guideline. Issues with new combos should be justified case-by-case depending on nc usage.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu
This is map that I mean: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/45671
New Combos are consistent, but there is combo art, that breaks the consistency few times. However it is not needed to be mentioned, because it works fine. Else, if someone used it randomly, I'm pretty sure someone whould mention it, no matter if BAT or normal modder.
Seph
Seph
As long as it doesn't mess up CtB in a way (stacked fruits causes massive lag in CtB) so I hope you take that in consideration.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,946 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
The current rule already covers this (see: "use intelligently").

Denying.
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