Hey guys,

Recently I've "found" a mod button that I haven't touched for like 6 months. It's called DoubleTime and I've always avoided it because of the weird AR and because the songs sound rather unnatural. So, when I turned on mods I rather played HR or HDHR to get used to AR10 or EZ to improve reading and for the ability to play every AR (to the point that I can't really tell what map is AR8 and what map is AR9).

Anyway, recently I didn't care as much about the two points I mentioned, so I started to play DT a little. I've always thought that you don't learn anything special from playing DT, because you could always just play faster maps instead of ruining a song. But still, it feels like I have missed something when I play DT right now. I can pass some really fast maps, but I still fail sometimes at playing a hard on DT.

So what advantage does training DT actually have?

Arguments like "you can rank better" don't really count for me since I think that it's rather boring. Regarding this point though, is it better for improvement to rank from time to time?

DT makes you faster, and better at DT.

silmarilen wrote:

DT makes you faster, and better at DT.

Also: i find maps that I can easily dt far less boring than without dt on

silmarilen wrote:

DT makes you faster, and better at DT.

I like your post.

Some songs are just boringly slow without DT.. at least for me, I can't play some maps because they are too slow and my brains won't activate.
Oh and what silmarilen said.

More finger speed, improves accuracy and it's pretty much required if you want to learn ARs higher than 10.

it makes you play scarlet rose better

Work on your technique and form before you worry about speed. Only work on speed training once you have gained good knowledge and understanding of how to play the game. Don't bother with ranking neither because that will come with time as well. Do what you can and set goals that aren't too crazy (ie: you can only stream 140 BPM barely but you want to stream 260 BPM in a month so you spam DT every day constantly) stuff like that doesn't work. A reasonable goal would be for a new player to be able to play Insane maps within 170 BPM and below comfortably with any difficulty setting in a span of 5 months to 6 months (depending on how you apply yourself and how dedicated you are). You honestly don't need mods to get better at this game; sometimes they can hinder your other abilities if you rely on them too much.

Keep in mind this is a rhythm game, so listen to the music and don't rely on visuals to hit notes.

Dexus wrote:

Work on your technique and form before you worry about speed. Only work on speed training once you have gained good knowledge and understanding of how to play the game. Don't bother with ranking neither because that will come with time as well. Do what you can and set goals that aren't too crazy (ie: you can only stream 140 BPM barely but you want to stream 260 BPM in a month so you spam DT every day constantly) stuff like that doesn't work. A reasonable goal would be for a new player to be able to play Insane maps within 170 BPM and below comfortably with any difficulty setting in a span of 5 months to 6 months (depending on how you apply yourself and how dedicated you are). You honestly don't need mods to get better at this game; sometimes they can hinder your other abilities if you rely on them too much.

Keep in mind this is a rhythm game, so listen to the music and don't rely on visuals to hit notes.

Thanks for your constructive post, but I think that you underestimate me a little. First of all, I wouldn't say that 6 months is really that new. And my playcount of 9.6k is due to the fact that I don't retry like... other people. Second, I am really comfortable with playing Insanes below like 175 bpm (because I can stream mid-length streams at this speed) and I usually get about 95%+ if the map is not especially hard. Third, I am alternating, so playing fast maps (and unfortunately accuracy in a negative sense, so you got a valid point there) is different for me than for someone who singletaps. Sorry I didn't say this earlier. Fourth, I know that mods can ruin everything because I've read a lot about people who learned AR10 and unlearned everything else, so I'm aware of this. But still, there are some things that you can only learn by playing mods (normal people wouldn't learn to play AR10 by playing unranked AR10 maps or Airman). So I asked myself if there's something that only DT can "teach" me.

DT teaches you to play other DT maps for the most part. It's kinda like you said for AR10 and other mods. There are a fair amount of maps that, with DT, are like 220-240+ BPM maps yet don't require the ability to stream that fast (only 3-5 note bursts). There are not, however, many maps like this without using DT. As a HDHR player who lacks a significant amount of experience in DT, even though I have the speed to play a lot of DT maps, the BPM honestly kinda just stresses me out when I'm FCing. I also have a lot more trouble accing on DT than HDHR because I'm not as used to it. That's harder to say why, but it's certainly true.

It's hard to really explain, but it feels different. Just take my word for it as someone who's played lots of HDHR and not much DT, DT simply feels weird if you're not used to it.

Better single tap or alternate speed, better accuracy, and better aim. AR9+DT=AR10.3 so it may also help you get a lot better in HR.

pooptartsonas wrote:

It's hard to really explain, but it feels different. Just take my word for it as someone who's played lots of HDHR and not much DT, DT simply feels weird if you're not used to it.

HR decreases how many notes are on the screen at a time, DT doesnt, because DT increases the speed of the song and the speed of the approach circles at the same rate while HR only increases the approach circles. thats why it feels different

It helps you increase speed so you can eventually DT scarlet rose.

6 months is relatively new. This is usually when babby starts grasping [insane]. Playcount is irrelevant.
95% is bad accuracy, just going to say that. I'm talking about consistent full combos near 100% accuracy.
I started off as alternating, it's not a bad thing to learn first. I would say you should mix single tapping in there as well so you don't handicap yourself later on.
Mostly the people who "unlearn" stuff are the HD+HR players because it literally makes every map feel the same just at different speeds so they don't learn dynamics. They usually play at moderate to high BPM to sustain being able to make it through a map and retry a lot. If they don't they usually come out with 93-94% accuracy. I've yet to see a HD+HR player, aside from the obvious top players, that could play through a map and sustain 98-99% accuracy within the first or second try. Same thing happens with HD+DT players on [hard] maps but in a different way.

answer) DT isn't going to teach you anything different than mashing if you don't know what you're doing.

Really though, you have so many areas to work on that mods are irrelevant for you at the moment. Edit maps if you want more of a challenge out of maps because it will set it to a specific level that you're trying to push past. Try playing a map with OD9 AR7 at 170BPM and I bet you will flop the first try or at least have poor accuracy.

Dexus wrote:

Try playing a map with OD9 AR7 at 170BPM and I bet you will flop the first try or at least have poor accuracy.

I know this is an example, but practicing this way does not help.

OD and AR are very linked in your mind, but it depends on what you are used to playing. If you haven't grinded EZ mod before this is going to give you a hard time and not yield any results.

I've already modified a few maps with the above method and all I can say is I have only noticed an improvement in accuracy over time where the approach rate is appropriate for the OD. And this could just be from memory as well, even with weeks between replaying the same map.

Having a faster approach rate will make it easier to be more accurate at higher OD's because there is a sight-reading/timing component, it's not 100% listening to the music even with HD. That's why most players have an easy time with HR or HD/HR short of playing very difficult maps.

Also HD/HR players just have limited experience in what they are used to playing. This does translate into being "bad" in a way, but it does not mean they don't have the potential to be good at other AR's, they just need to practice it too, like everyone else.

++++ speed
+++ aim
++ ar reading
+ accuracy

I use NightCore instead because I'm sick and twisted like that. I use DoubleTime/NightCore when I'm clearing a boring map, usually in combination with HardRock and/or Hidden.

pooptartsonas wrote:

DT teaches you to play other DT maps for the most part. It's kinda like you said for AR10 and other mods. There are a fair amount of maps that, with DT, are like 220-240+ BPM maps yet don't require the ability to stream that fast (only 3-5 note bursts). There are not, however, many maps like this without using DT. As a HDHR player who lacks a significant amount of experience in DT, even though I have the speed to play a lot of DT maps, the BPM honestly kinda just stresses me out when I'm FCing. I also have a lot more trouble accing on DT than HDHR because I'm not as used to it. That's harder to say why, but it's certainly true.

It's hard to really explain, but it feels different. Just take my word for it as someone who's played lots of HDHR and not much DT, DT simply feels weird if you're not used to it.

Thanks! I've been looking for a player who had similar experiences, but on a higher level of play.

Dexus wrote:

6 months is relatively new. This is usually when babby starts grasping [insane]. Playcount is irrelevant.
95% is bad accuracy, just going to say that.

[...]

Really though, you have so many areas to work on that mods are irrelevant for you at the moment. Edit maps if you want more of a challenge out of maps because it will set it to a specific level that you're trying to push past. Try playing a map with OD9 AR7 at 170BPM and I bet you will flop the first try or at least have poor accuracy.

I've hoped that I wouldn't cause such a discussion, but I've been wrong. It's kind of unfair of you to think like this without ever having seen me play, but you may feel free to think whatever you like. I'll play whatever is fun to me, since that's what the game is about. By the way, I wouldn't refer to "Accuracy" as "so many areas". It's just a really big one.

WolfCoder wrote:

I use NightCore instead because I'm sick and twisted like that. I use DoubleTime/NightCore when I'm clearing a boring map, usually in combination with HardRock and/or Hidden.

I've been referring to Hards and harder where you can't easily use HR + DT, but anyways, thanks for your input. I also like Nightcore sometimes.

I forgot to point out NightCore has an additional metronome to help you while I think DoubleTime usually softens the beat too much.

RaneFire wrote:

OD and AR are very linked in your mind, but it depends on what you are used to playing. If you haven't grinded EZ mod before this is going to give you a hard time and not yield any results.

I've already modified a few maps with the above method and all I can say is I have only noticed an improvement in accuracy over time where the approach rate is appropriate for the OD. And this could just be from memory as well, even with weeks between replaying the same map.

I have to disagree here. Playing lower AR and higher OD only makes you concentrate more due to pressure, but isn't really helping you in the long run. You will not find any maps with unfittingly low AR in today's age.
Just having normal AR with OD9 or OD10 helps the best imo, at least from my own experience.

RaneFire wrote:

Having a faster approach rate will make it easier to be more accurate at higher OD's because there is a sight-reading/timing component, it's not 100% listening to the music even with HD. That's why most players have an easy time with HR or HD/HR short of playing very difficult maps.
.

I have to disagree here as well, because of my answer above. AR10 and OD10 is harder than AR9/8 OD10 for people not used to AR10.
Logically, your statement could be correct, because you have less time to react, however it's just the matter of getting used to the AR instead of having a "fitting OD" for that AR. You can be equally good at AR8 or AR10 with OD10, it's just the matter of your reading abilities rather than rhythm perception.

Just because AR and OD were linked before, doesn't mean they are actually directly linked to each other imo.

As for the topic, there are no real advantages other than the obvious ones, and that is getting better in general (if you don't forsake lower BPMs as well, that is).
Though I have to say that being more accurate with DT may be harder at times (OD8+) because it's really hard to compare the sounds to the music, due to increased speed (also some maps exceed OD10 due to DT, hi RooM ).
Could be just me though.

Illus wrote:

Dexus wrote:

Work on your technique and form before you worry about speed. Only work on speed training once you have gained good knowledge and understanding of how to play the game. Don't bother with ranking neither because that will come with time as well. Do what you can and set goals that aren't too crazy (ie: you can only stream 140 BPM barely but you want to stream 260 BPM in a month so you spam DT every day constantly) stuff like that doesn't work. A reasonable goal would be for a new player to be able to play Insane maps within 170 BPM and below comfortably with any difficulty setting in a span of 5 months to 6 months (depending on how you apply yourself and how dedicated you are). You honestly don't need mods to get better at this game; sometimes they can hinder your other abilities if you rely on them too much.

Keep in mind this is a rhythm game, so listen to the music and don't rely on visuals to hit notes.

Thanks for your constructive post, but I think that you underestimate me a little. First of all, I wouldn't say that 6 months is really that new. And my playcount of 9.6k is due to the fact that I don't retry like... other people. Second, I am really comfortable with playing Insanes below like 175 bpm (because I can stream mid-length streams at this speed) and I usually get about 95%+ if the map is not especially hard. Third, I am alternating, so playing fast maps (and unfortunately accuracy in a negative sense, so you got a valid point there) is different for me than for someone who singletaps. Sorry I didn't say this earlier. Fourth, I know that mods can ruin everything because I've read a lot about people who learned AR10 and unlearned everything else, so I'm aware of this. But still, there are some things that you can only learn by playing mods (normal people wouldn't learn to play AR10 by playing unranked AR10 maps or Airman). So I asked myself if there's something that only DT can "teach" me.

If you're really comfortable with 175 bpm, then this (180 bpm): http://osu.ppy.sh/b/140665 [Extra]
Should be easy to FC.

Double Time makes you better at higher AR and BPM. That's it.

brendanuhs wrote:

Illus wrote:

Thanks for your constructive post, but I think that you underestimate me a little. First of all, I wouldn't say that 6 months is really that new. And my playcount of 9.6k is due to the fact that I don't retry like... other people. Second, I am really comfortable with playing Insanes below like 175 bpm (because I can stream mid-length streams at this speed) and I usually get about 95%+ if the map is not especially hard. Third, I am alternating, so playing fast maps (and unfortunately accuracy in a negative sense, so you got a valid point there) is different for me than for someone who singletaps. Sorry I didn't say this earlier. Fourth, I know that mods can ruin everything because I've read a lot about people who learned AR10 and unlearned everything else, so I'm aware of this. But still, there are some things that you can only learn by playing mods (normal people wouldn't learn to play AR10 by playing unranked AR10 maps or Airman). So I asked myself if there's something that only DT can "teach" me.

If you're really comfortable with 175 bpm, then this (180 bpm): http://osu.ppy.sh/b/140665 [Extra]
Should be easy to FC.

and this one aswell right? https://osu.ppy.sh/s/41823
hell, this map is only 170 bpm, should be a walk in the park https://osu.ppy.sh/b/35015

please dont be stupid by assuming bpm is the only thing that determines a map's difficulty

lolcubes wrote:

Just having normal AR with OD9 or OD10 helps the best imo, at least from my own experience.

Well that's pretty much what I was implying. Normal AR by today's standards is AR8/9 and that's what I practice OD10 with. For fooling around with OD11 (DT), I set the map parameters to OD10 and AR8 to give me 9.6 and a really harsh (almost fruitless) hit window. These are "normal" AR's for me I guess, and I suppose what you actually mean is that if someone finds AR7 to be a normal AR for them, they should do well with OD10 too. This is unlikely though, as AR7 is rarely used nowadays.

lolcubes wrote:

I have to disagree here as well, because of my answer above. AR10 and OD10 is harder than AR9/8 OD10 for people not used to AR10.
Logically, your statement could be correct, because you have less time to react, however it's just the matter of getting used to the AR instead of having a "fitting OD" for that AR. You can be equally good at AR8 or AR10 with OD10, it's just the matter of your reading abilities rather than rhythm perception.

Just because AR and OD were linked before, doesn't mean they are actually directly linked to each other imo.

As for the topic, there are no real advantages other than the obvious ones, and that is getting better in general (if you don't forsake lower BPMs as well, that is).
Though I have to say that being more accurate with DT may be harder at times (OD8+) because it's really hard to compare the sounds to the music, due to increased speed (also some maps exceed OD10 due to DT, hi RooM ).
Could be just me though.

I appreciate the reply, and I also agree because I think I can see where this is headed, or rather where I got it from.

My presumption was based on the players that are used to AR10 and do not have trouble reacting. But my reason for this is based on myself and is probably my undoing; As the approach circle closes in on the hit circle, it becomes increasingly difficult to tell visually whether I am hitting early or late, when using a lower AR. However, this most likely does not apply to players who are already incredibly accurate at AR's 8-10. So my whole statement was actually based on not having perfect reading skills at each AR, or having a different level of proficiency with each AR... i.e. not being super good at the game. At the same time I wonder whether you can have an OD10 level of hearing alone, without the guidance of fast-fading HD circles or memorisation.

I also did not know they were linked before either, I haven't been around that long. I guess my feeling for AR vs OD is basically because of the way maps are made these days. As you said, cases where maps have unfitting AR/OD's are very rare.

Also RooM is one of the maps I practice DT with, because you mentioned it before in another thread discussion. Although I'm not sure how well timed it is, because it does not actually feel "spot on" at such high OD, but this may be due to it's low BPM or just me+stress as you said. But this is another thing to consider regarding OD: that the map may not be perfectly timed to the millisecond throughout.

Dexus wrote:

I've yet to see a HD+HR player, aside from the obvious top players, that could play through a map and sustain 98-99% accuracy within the first or second try.

My accuracy on my first try tends to be pretty high, and often higher than my next few tries, unless the map is very hard to read. I really don't think you can get a high accuracy on OD10 unless your accuracy is pretty consistently stable, unless you really retry a LOT. Retrying will cut down on the 100s you get due to misreading, but not the 100s you get due to just having bad accuracy. Also I don't feel I "unlearned" playing lower ARs, it's just something I've always been bad at (snapping to patterns on low AR) so I played HDHR because that suits my strengths, which did admittedly serve to amplify the effects. I really doubt there's a whole lot of "unlearning" unless the player literally only plays HDHR (and I think most HDHR players mix it up at least a little bit).

WolfCoder wrote:

I forgot to point out NightCore has an additional metronome to help you while I think DoubleTime usually softens the beat too much.

Playing too much nightcore isn't really that good also. Because I have been only playing with nightcore for the past few months, my accuracy with doubletime has gone down where things I can get 99+% accuracy or even SS first try with NC ends up with only around 97% accuracy on DT. And my general accuracy also went down somewhat due to reliance on the metronome.

That's because you rely on the metronome instead of using it as a helper, but I guess that's what happen when you play too much/only one thing all the time..

GoldenWolf wrote:

That's because you rely on the metronome instead of using it as a helper, but I guess that's what happen when you play too much/only one thing all the time..

I do use it as a helper but after a while you just become reliant on it. I do play a variety of mod combinations most of the time but I play NC most (but not by much).

How come I never realised NC had a metronome... -_-

NoYzE wrote:

silmarilen wrote:

DT makes you faster, and better at DT.

I like your post.

If only there was a button for that.

How come people necro threads to add absolutely nothing to them?

chainpullz wrote:

How come people necro threads to add absolutely nothing to them?

new trends bby

stop slacking

winber1 wrote:

chainpullz wrote:

How come people necro threads to add absolutely nothing to them?

new trends bby

stop slacking

Brb doing what Narrill did except with 50 necros (except not actually).

we need G&R mods like the OT ones.

B1rd wrote:

we need G&R mods like the OT ones.

like me

I'm still a forum mod for a forum I haven't so much as looked at in over a year tehehe. I'm also supposed to be modding league guides but that hasn't happened since that shitty kayle guide trended to the top of reddit. The sad thing is it got ninja featured like 2 hrs before I went to review it because ad revenue > quality apparently. Then I promptly went mia again hehehe.

B1rd wrote:

we need G&R mods like the OT ones.

There's plenty of people here that could be modded and I think it may actually be a good idea; I see threads that are supposed to be instantly locked (such as cheating discussions) that carry on for pages and for longer than an hour

But that's none of my business

Rewben2 wrote:

B1rd wrote:

we need G&R mods like the OT ones.

There's plenty of people here that could be modded and I think it may actually be a good idea; I see threads that are supposed to be instantly locked (such as cheating discussions) that carry on for pages and for longer than an hour

But that's none of my business

ikr, how long did it take for those pics to be taken down from the recent incident? People like Oinari-sama are barely ever online.

I just realised and strong desire to become a mod . It would be perfect for me, since unlike other people with 'school' and 'jobs' and 'other priorities', I no life these forums all day. And I would feel like I was doing something constructive with my life. Sadly I doubt I am charismatic enough to get the postition. I nominate GoldenWolf.

I also have the luxury of viewing the forums while at work. Good thing no one was looking when that incident happened. As such, there's no chance I'd be a mod.

I was angry... I watched the main page to see how fast the mods were. They were not fast enough. There should be a button I can press to call a mod. That's a fantastic idea But not just me, I hope someone else presses it before I open that damned page.

RaneFire wrote:

when that incident happened.

RaneFire wrote:

I was angry...

I was so tempted to do just this

Note: Topic ended a year ago and has been derailed

I'm always angry.

At least that's what people believe.