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[assigned] [Proposal] Where there are no alternatives, allow red lines for SV changes

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Topic Starter
quila
A map I'm making uses a slow slider over 16 beats, and required a red line to make it slow enough. There was no alternative; even if the base SV of the map were scaled down to the minimum, the slider would not be slow enough; and using a base SV that low would also interfere with the faster sliders. These conditions are what I mean by 'when there are no alternatives.'

I ensured the BPM it uses remains proportional to the BPM of the song, meaning the sole slider-tick remains snapped, and perfectly in the center of the slider. This does not negatively impact the gameplay of my map, and bpm changes are already allowed to accommodate songs with uncommon snap divisors (e.g 1/11), so this should be rankable.

One way to implement this is by adding the 3rd bullet point.

Uninherited timing points should only be used when required for timing purposes. Unnecessary timing points may unintentionally affect main-menu pulsing, add unwanted sounds to the Nightcore mod, or cause timing to shift. Acceptable uses include:

  1. Aligning beats of the Nightcore mod with the start of musical sections.
  2. Accommodating for objects in musical sections requiring unsupported beat snap divisors (e.g. 1/11).
  3. Changing slider speed when this can't be done by any other means, so long as any slider ticks remain snapped.
Feel free to come up with better ways to word this.
Fisky
I've had this problem too, obviously would be better if the editor was more lenient as there is 0 reason for it to be capped at all (0.1-10x sv), if this isnt fixable i agree with the proposal completely
Yoanie
there were times where i needed a below-0.1 sv slider as well, and its sad its capped in place for 10x (used to be 0.01 to 4, i believe??)

as for the third decimal place, i do believe you can enter it and it does work, but not many people know that and its not easy to edit. many people are very specific like this (especially like adding grid sliders to grid maps!) and i believe the editor could use this change :)
lewski
I have nothing against the spirit of the proposal (allowing sliders that are slower than the current arbitrary limit) but this is far more of an editor issue than a ranking criteria issue so it should be approached from a dev angle first and foremost imo

basically ask peppy to lower one or both of the lower bounds (like why the hell is the minimum base sv 0.4 that's such a weird place to limit it)
Topic Starter
quila
Given that feature requests are rarely implemented and peppy is focused on lazer, modifying the ranking criteria seems to be the way to solve this for now imo
lewski
try
Topic Starter
quila
Not sure how to contact them, considering doing so in the push request for this change, so they can choose to either change the game's code or implement the rc change themself. I guess I'll wait for more consensus, and do this if noone has a better way.
pishifat
https://github.com/ppy/osu-stable-issues might be what you're looking for
Topic Starter
quila
https://github.com/ppy/osu-stable-issues/issues/1068 hopefully they check this

edit: github's system flagged my account (due to vpn use) and hid its posts, so 1103 reposted this here: https://github.com/ppy/osu-stable-issues/issues/1072
Topic Starter
quila
going to revive this thread because the github proposal to change the game's code to allow slower SVs (https://github.com/ppy/osu-stable-issues/issues/1072 -> https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/22152) has been inactive since January 2023 due to backwards compatibility issues, even though peppy agreed

and because a set has 2 bns ready to nominate once it's made rankable, but the last slider isn't possible to be slow enough without a red line (beatmapsets/2121566 on [refuge] diff)
Coppertine
I honestly thought it (half or quarter bpm for single or multiple sliders) was doable and rankable, I noticed this twice. Once with beatmapsets/915018#osu/1910987 (half bpm to get rid of half the ticks) and the other (more, extremely recently) with beatmapsets/2094154#osu/4390731 (single slider set 4 times SLOWER than original bpm)
clayton
seems fine to me until dev fix
Topic Starter
quila
wafer
this is allowed by the rc and its current interpretation

But yes explicitly allowing it is nice
Okoratu
added assigned tag, poked nat about it a bit
peppy
Please provide a video of the slider in the beatmap. This sounds like something which would be a once-off exception, not another complicated edge case added to ranking criteria.
Topic Starter
quila

peppy wrote:

Please provide a video of the slider in the beatmap. This sounds like something which would be a once-off exception, not another complicated edge case added to ranking criteria.
hi peppy, thanks for creating this wonderful game 💙
here's the slider:


and here's the full map if you want to see it in context:
peppy
Yeah I mean I think it's fine as long as it works on stable and lazer. I don't think this necessarily needs a rule change, we can just let it go as an exception which is clearly not attempting to abuse the game or break anything.
Okoratu
I think adding that sentiment to RC is fine so long as it remains clear that using timing to access other SV values is the last way out to take.
We can change the wording on the ongoing PR to reflect that and change effects like beatmapsets/2007289#osu/4175197 to work properly in both clients
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