Before I am going to put a new thread in the Ranking Criteria Forum I'd like to hear from the Taiko Community how they do stand to this. We all know that some people dislike the fact that we need since last year instead of one Taiko Difficulty two now. And I absolutely support this since the first day. But there are some songs which simply does not require a 2nd Taiko Difficulty (in the most cases it's a Muzukashii) because:


- The Song is so slow that a harder/easier Diff would be just pure waste.
- For Oni: The Oni Difficulty plays extremly easy and it's even suitable for Muzukashii player.
- For Muzukashii: The Hard/Normal Diff plays fine as alternative to Muzukashii.


About the Spread Futsuu/Oni: I really wonder why are these Spreads rankable. I mean Normal/Insane Mapsets aren't and the concept is like the same here in Futsuu/Oni Spreads so why are they rankable? I know that we have just like a handfull of these Spreads (osu! Tutorial, Lexus cyanixs, Sen Trope even has a Kantan/Oni Spread) but I think it should not be rankable. Either make a good gap between the Taiko Set (Futsuu>Muzukashii>Oni) or let the Futsuu out and do a Muzukashii.

So.. my thoughts about the current rule is: It works great but some maps are missing by this way the chance to have a suitable Taiko Diff into the sets. I don't want to "support" playing standard-converted Taiko Maps in this way but if they are really fine then a lower Taiko Difficulty won't be needed. (In case you want examples I will provide them later)


But what actually should make a Hard/Normal Diff out to be a good alternative for a Muzukashii Difficulty?:
-) No 1/8: I don't care if an Insane has 1/8 in but when the Hard/Normal Diff has them then this cannot goes as alternative.
-) Hard Pattern: This should be discussed deeply but I would say that when the Hard Diff got a dkkdkkdkkdkdkd pattern as example then it should be obvious.
-) Unsuitable SV: When the Map consist strong SV switches and/or a too high one then a Muzukashii Difficulty would be required.


okay, that's all for now. discuss.

I guess I'll just mention that Namco's Taiko no Tatsujin's Oni goes from 1*-10*, not 7*-10*
Most people seem to forget that.

So I'm okay with easy Onis and easy spreads, you can always look at examples from Namco's Taiko.
It shouldn't be too hard to make a diff that's easier, even if it doesn't feel hard enough for Muzu
I think the rule should hold for all maps, it's easier that way.

CQ already said everything I think.

Oni != extremely hard and crazy, just kinda the hardest difficulty that still fits with a song. I firmly think easy Oni would serve as training grounds for newcomers that want to move farther.

That and converted Taiko maps are mostly bad.

Before you answer my post please consider answering the following question: "Are you high?"

Kk, let's go.

Stefan wrote:

- The Song is so slow that a harder/easier Diff would be just pure waste.

Please pass 777's Decadent of human evo, or Diavolo before saying that an insane diff can be a waste on a slow song =)

- For Oni: The Oni Difficulty plays extremly easy and it's even suitable for Muzukashii player.

That means that the mapper did not state the correct name of a diff, there are only a handful of maps where an Oni diff can be extremly easy.

- For Muzukashii: The Hard/Normal Diff plays fine as alternative to Muzukashii.

Never ever converted diff can be an alternative. You can consider them an alternative after you learn how to play not before.

About the Spread Futsuu/Oni: I really wonder why are these Spreads rankable.

Because it's a placeholder, you still have an easy diff for people who have no idea how to play, so the map is ok for newbies while also having a normal (Oni) diff.

But what actually should make a Hard/Normal Diff out to be a good alternative for a Muzukashii Difficulty?:

I dunno how you could make so many typos in the word "Nothing".

I advocated the additional difficulty rule in this thread I started about a year ago. Now that it has become a part of the taiko ruleset, I'm actually pretty happy with how it turned out. This rule being combined with taiko mapsets being rankable has really made starting taiko easier for new players (the intention of the whole shin-dig). Lots of popular songs (crossing field, only my railgun, etc.) have at least one easy taiko difficulty, and this is only going to expand as more mapsets get released.

I understand and support the idea of a possible 3rd difficulty (or two difficulties spread out better) for guest mapping, but demanding this from mappers will take it's toll. I remember when this map was released, I managed to talk to Ono about why her taiko difficulty was not part of the ranked mapset. Ono simply stated that he did not want to make a muzukashii difficulty, and the current rules prevented the Oni from being in the set without one. I'm not going to challenge Ono's reasoning for this, but one thing is clear; adding another required difficulty for guest mappers will lower the amount of taiko difficulties, not raise them.

This is where taiko mapsets come in. Motivated mappers can map an entire difficulty spread of whatever song they like, not tied to any other mapper. They can take it as slow or as fast as they want. They can redo a difficulty because of one new idea. Even though a guest mapper would feel restrained by having to do more work, these mappers find freedom in having the control.

Assuming the modding process on full taiko mapsets increases in the future, we should have a good balance between osu! maps featuring two mid-level taiko difficulties and full mapsets including the beginner stuff. It all really depends on how much modding gets done.

Edits have been made. Sorry.

There is not much to discuss about it anymore. People mentioned already important points here.

CoroQuetz and DakeDekaane are right, the level in Taiko goes from 1 to 10*, not 7 to 10*. You are even able to have a Kantan 1* up to Oni 4* and everything would be fine, since the difficulty of the maps are also defined by the BPM.
Also, a spread as such is considered as one when a minimum of 3 diffs has been mapped. Two difficulties can't have a spread since they only contain one distance to each other.

And about what Mithost said, I have to agree as well. Though, my opinion about the 2 diff rule is still spreaded... I think at the moment Taiko-sets are enough for having easy difficulties. Not because I don't like to map it(I map often 3-GD's for a set), rather because it is easier in some cases to map only one difficulty because sometimes, some osu guys just don't like to have more diff's (which was the case in Mithost example).

Well, right now this rule has been set because there needs to be equality in the general osu rules.

@Mithost: I'm male. lol

God of Taiko wrote:

...

lol

I find it good that you take the effort to do three Taiko Difficulties for a Mapset - because this actually creates a real well-balanced spread - and actually this would be better. But there are enough people who're bugging already about two Taiko Difficulties.. and even some of the Mapper reject to do a 2nd. Well not sure if this would be somehow possible.

Lots of popular songs (crossing field, only my railgun, etc.) have at least one easy taiko difficulty, and this is only going to expand as more mapsets get released.

from my sight I partly agree with it, but not to 100%.

DakeDekaane wrote:

That and converted Taiko maps are mostly bad.

That's true. So that there will be actually a handful of these Normal/Hard Maps fits as alternative.

I think that some Normal/Hard conversions are close enough to a taiko specific variation to qualify as an easier taiko. You would need to actually check and confirm whether it is good enough, and I think that if this was ever implemented, it should be mentioned in the beatmap's description which maps are acceptable. Unfortunately there would be no indicator ingame, which would be inconvenient for taiko players. It is easier to manage the way the rules are currently set. Mappers should just deal with it if they have an Oni grade difficulty.

If their highest level is not an Oni, then the rule gets a bit inconsistent. You are required to have at least a muzukashii. As long as you have a muzukashii or easier level taiko difficulty, it makes little sense to be required to have a second muzukashii or easier difficulty in addition to that.

OnosakiHito wrote:

@Mithost: I'm male. lol

My apologies. Edits have been made.

TheVileOne wrote:

I think that some Normal/Hard conversions are close enough to a taiko specific variation to qualify as an easier taiko.

Not even close. I don't find "bash 1/2 worth of dons for X minutes" a proper easy taiko.

Trying to create such a thing can lead to a game mode being really dumb. Almost all of the taikosu maps were not really top quality for standard game mode. Taiko conversion just doesn't work, you can have the rhythm being too static or just wrongly translated, and there is also a question of SV which is really important. That's not a problem with the conversion, it's just how the maps are being mapped across the game modes.