[Rule Change] Manipulating slider speeds with anchors

posted
Total Posts
53
show more
Kodora
I'm very against sliders like this because in most of cases "wiggle" parts have unreadable speed, and it just very uncomfortable to aim (yes, sometimes it can be done in a way where just impossible to read speed of wiggle part) . Maybe just my opinion, but it estetically looks bad, and for case of this map, wiggle parts even done a bit off the music.

there are actually a lot of of sliders like this

However, current rule isn't clean. Sometimes using "wiggle" parts to emphazire specified part of music may works fine (as long as it not affects speed of slider too much - Charles already give good example). I personally don't think that this rule should be changed, but let's see what people will say.
popner
It is still a case by case issue. I find that many maps use this wisely, like 0108's maps. If you can't prove that all this kind of slider are bad use then why make a rule to forbid it? Most maps that use over 3.0x SV sucks, so are we going to forbid 3.0+x SV? No. This is a silimar case.

If you find a map use terrible sliders, tell the mapper that "You think the slider is terrible", not "The rule says the slider is terrible". Please think more about what BATs are exist for.
Scorpiour
i don't think there's any strong reason to set it as a rule. The existence of BAT is to judge these kinda cases.
tiper

popner wrote:

It is still a case by case issue. I find that many maps use this wisely, like 0108's maps. If you can't prove that all this kind of slider are bad use then why make a rule to forbid it? Most maps that use over 3.0x SV sucks, so are we going to forbid 3.0+x SV? No. This is a silimar case.

If you find a map use terrible sliders, tell the mapper that "You think the slider is terrible", not "The rule says the slider is terrible". Please think more about what BATs are exist for.
Here we go. Exactly the thing I wanted to write in this thread. The problem is that you obviously can concretize the rule, but that is the best way to kill this kind of sliders which may be either good or bad. There're a lot of experienced BATs who can judge these silders on a case-by-case basis.
Zero__wind
It should be judged accordingly
Forbidding this kind of slider usage with unbreakable rules can only kill creativity and enthusiasm of mappers
Describing this in the guideline may be the compromise
dkun
In agreement with the few people above me -- how about changing the rule into judging this into a case-by-case basis rather than a hard lined "no"?

Scorpiour gets it head on,

Scorpiour wrote:

The existence of BAT is to judge these kinda cases.
The rules shouldn't be black and white, but a colorful book that's open to interpretation when needed.
Stefan
This slider method shouldn't be abused, that's all. Simple and easy. Unlike Hold Sliders this method to make a Slider has place for many cases.
TheVileOne
The hate against wigglies has always been dumb. As long as it isn't a hold slider, it should be allowed.
Wishy

those wrote:

As soon as you integrate "player skill" into your argument, it nullifies it entirely.
I was answering to your argument about being able to read the slider properly, you are the one who got into that area, are you saying your argument nullifies itself?

Just leave it be, if you don't like some specific map using this go and cry about it on each thread, the idea itself works and plays good.
peppy
This is shit and should never be allowed.

Ephemeral asks for substantiation:
This is shit. It is utter shit. It is game breaking mechanics. It is shit and should not be allowed. I'm happy to modify osu! code to disallow this shit.

everything i just said is less shit than making sliders using this shit. that's how shit this shit really is.
peppy
Don't rank this shit. If anything with shit like this is ranked, PM me so I can unrank it.
Ephemeral
well, i think that adequately covers all avenue of possible discourse on the situation.
TheVileOne
Why is it shit? What says change slider velocity mid slider is always a bad thing? It just limits mapper freedom by not allowing it on the basis of subjectivity rather than objectivity. It's hard to say that wigglies reduce map quality. I have never said a map is bad, because it has wigglies in it. Some of the best maps in osu! use wigglies. If you ask me physically reducing the slider velocity the natural way reduces mapping quality. Not only does it make boring slider shapes, it is very hard to tell sudden speed changes. If you see a wiggly you know it's a sudden speed change.

In short:

Wigglies = fun
Lowered slider velocities = no fun and hard to read

I don't understand the hatred towards them. It's like taking this wonderful slider design and then saying we can't use it and have to use this less wonderful and flowing slider design. It would be good if there was a good alternative to it (hold note will not be a solution unless you can move along the playing field).
Ephemeral
i really, really would not argue with the lead developer when they say a mechanic is gamebreaking. pretty sure those wiggle sliders break or severely fuck with parts of cross-gamemode difficulty generation
TheVileOne
I forgot about that. Well you can ignore me if you want on that regard. (Edited it out of my post) But as long as it's not throwing the wiggly message in aimod, it should be allowed right?
Irreversible
In my opinion, it very depends on each map. In this case, I think it's very fine, it's at the END of the song, and there 1 1/2 ticks break between this slider and the next one. I don't really think any of you would really have problems with reading it.

Mapping is cool, because of the different things you can try out, so why not fully using it? Okay, you might end up in a combo break, but after all, you've got it and pass it without any further problems.

Just some thoughts about it, I don't wanna argue against anybody.
peppy
Go ahead and use this shit, but don't try and get it ranked.
Keep in mind I'm just stating my opinion. A very strong one, but still only my opinion.
Scorpiour
Wishy
There really are a LOT of maps that actually use this and many are on the "best of 201X" compilations, so yeah people like that. x)

Also, breaking the game mechanics is a really common way to get... new cool mechanics. :D
Nyquill
So I'm guessing this means that we can say good night to any val map, best of 2011, a lot of charles maps, as well as a lot of various other maps that use this technique in a way to fit the music.

Goodbye, shaking sliders. You had a good run.

Whoever cares amend the wiki
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply