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Nana Mizuki - Vitalization [CatchTheBeat]

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Deif
Troll Asian artists:

[General]
  1. Artist: "Nana Mizuki" is the preferred option, if you take a look at the CD cover. Although it's not the most reliable source, it's also stated in vgmdb.
  2. There are some small inconsistencies in the spread such as 01:16:923 (3,4,5,6) - in Cup having more note density than Salad or 00:13:923 (1,2,3,4) - in Salad, compared to the Platter. You should take a look into them.

Apart of that:

[Platter]
  1. 00:21:028 (3,4,5) - I'm not quite sure about this pattern in particular to be appropriate there. I'd vow for applying Ctrl-G on (4) to make it play smoother.
[Salad]
  1. 00:41:081 (2,3) - This kind of transition took me off-guard being a Salad, specially because it breaks the flow with that little stop-and-go. You shall make it more horizontal to smooth them.
  2. 00:54:186 (5,1,2) - Same as before.
  3. 01:01:607 (4,5) - This one is smoother anyway, so it should be okay.
  4. 01:05:713 (2) - It feels more confortable as a 3/4 slider, instead of a 1/1 one. Specially because you used the lyrics rhythm at 01:00:344 (4,1,2) - , it doesn't feel consistent.
[]

The difficulties are pretty much ready, but the spread should be improved. Cup and Platter should be tuned off a bit because the spread feels like Cup >> Salad >>>>> Platter > Rain at this moment. As a reference from Cup, there are some transitions like 00:39:818 (2,1,2) - , 00:52:134 (1,2,3) - , 01:07:923 (3,1,2) - that raise the difficulty.

Call me if you need further help. Good luck!
Topic Starter
Kurokami
Updated. Things changed after some discussion. Although I still have no idea how to degrease the gap. /o/
JBHyperion
Gonna take another look at this now and see what can be done about the spread. Stay tuned I guess \o/

Some suggestions for nerfing Cup and Platter n stuff, feel free to take or leave.

Cup
  1. 00:08:713 (4) - This can be removed as the vocal is weaker here
  2. 00:14:397 (2,3) - Antiflow movement here could be avoided by Ctrl+H and moving to the far left, plays a little more comfortably
  3. 00:17:239 (3) - Could possibly be replaced with a circle?
  4. 00:25:292 (1,2) - Downbeat is actually really weak here, so (2) could be removed and (1) moved forward a beat
  5. 00:26:239 (2) - Spacing could be reduced a little here, the 1/1 spacing makes it look bigger than it is and could intimidate new players a little
  6. 00:41:713 (1) - Same as 00:08:713 (4) - would be a nice break after the 1/2 slider pattern and I feel the pause emphasises the next vocal nicely
  7. 00:47:397 (2,3,4) - Antiflow is quite tricky here, so consider rearranging to something like this for a simpler movement
  8. 00:52:923 (2) - Same as 00:17:239 (3) - I feel this is fine just as a circle
  9. 01:07:923 (3,1) - Try removing (1) and shortening (3) to a 1/2 slider, as this emphasise the vocals better but reduces the note density quite a lot (weirdly weak downbeats are weird o_O)
  10. 01:09:660 (1,2) - These could be angled slightly more vertical for easier readability
  11. 01:10:607 (3) - Might not be necessary to map this, but if you decide to keep it, reducing the spacing a little would be good (especially if you take the above suggestion, as this will increase the spacing more)
  12. 01:19:607 (4) - The kiai has no pauses to give the player a break, which I can understand since the song has almost no drop in intensity. Perhaps you could remove the repeat here to make one? Although I don't really like it, you might want to consider it anyway
  13. 01:29:239 (2) - Could be shortened to a 1/2 slider I guess
  14. 01:35:397 (1,2) - Reduced spacing and/or some angling on these would be more appropriate for beginners I feel. Stacking the heads works fine
Platter
  1. 00:02:555 (1) - I'd avoid a strong antiflow movement so early into the map, I don't feel the music really calls for such a sharp movement here
  2. 00:04:923 (1) - This is quite a tight dash, reducing a little would make this more comfortable
  3. 00:09:818 (3,4) - Spacing could be reduced a little here, similar to 00:02:555 (1)
  4. 00:11:397 (1) - Could do with curving this make the hdash flow more smoothly imo
  5. 00:18:976 (1) - ^ A bit more vertical please
  6. 00:19:923 (4,5) - Same as 00:09:818 (3,4)
  7. 00:31:923 - 00:37:292 - some movements feel a little exaggerated here with a large emphasis on direction changes with dash. It might be nice to reduce the number of direction changes e.g. Ctrl+H 00:32:870 (1) - 00:35:713 (2,3,4,5,6) - and/oror reduce some of the spacings e.g. 00:33:660 (3,4) - 00:36:818 (2,3)
  8. 00:54:186 (1) - Strength of the hyper could be reduced here, else curve this slider slightly to reduce the sharpness of the antiflow
  9. 01:12:660 (4) - ^
  10. 01:16:449 (4) - ^
  11. 01:23:397 (1) - ^
  12. 01:29:555 (5,1) - Spacing could be reduced a little here, since 01:29:397 (4,5) is quite a strong dash before a direction change
Call me back once you've got another opinion (:
Topic Starter
Kurokami

JBHyperion wrote:

Gonna take another look at this now and see what can be done about the spread. Stay tuned I guess \o/

Some suggestions for nerfing Cup and Platter n stuff, feel free to take or leave.

Cup
  1. 00:17:239 (3) - Could possibly be replaced with a circle? Ugh? But with how much circle please? One or two? Both the head and tail or just head?
  2. 00:52:923 (2) - Same as 00:17:239 (3) - I feel this is fine just as a circle Ahaha, same as before.
  3. 01:19:607 (4) - The kiai has no pauses to give the player a break, which I can understand since the song has almost no drop in intensity. Perhaps you could remove the repeat here to make one? Although I don't really like it, you might want to consider it anyway I know. :< But if I leave even one white tick empty here it plays really bad as they are strong. There are 3-4 tick which is vocalless so it could be empty but its just weird.
  4. 01:29:239 (2) - Could be shortened to a 1/2 slider I guess Ugh, no. It sounds awful leaving that tick empty. It contains both vocal and drum.
Call me back once you've got another opinion (:
Rest changed. Thank you.
JBHyperion

Kurokami wrote:

JBHyperion wrote:

Cup
  1. 00:17:239 (3) - Could possibly be replaced with a circle? Ugh? But with how much circle please? One or two? Both the head and tail or just head?
  2. 00:52:923 (2) - Same as 00:17:239 (3) - I feel this is fine just as a circle Ahaha, same as before.
I was referring to just the head in each of these cases. Apologies for not making this clear.
MBomb
i got told to nerf stuff
i love nerfing stuff
also m4m

Cup
00:03:818 (1) - I think this distance should be reduced slightly, to make it easier for cup players, as it is two movements in opposite direction to and from this. x:240 is good.
00:14:555 (3) - Because of the low AR, this section looks a bit weird. Move this to x:32, to make it look more natural.
00:41:081 (2) - This kind of distance looks very weird at this low AR and for a cup in general, x:272 is nicer imo.
00:51:028 (1,2) - The jump to this could be a bit difficult for a cup player. x:144 feels better.
00:52:923 (2) - x:192, both the jump to and from this just feel too difficult for a cup player, as the way the movement looks may confuse a newer player.

Even though most of these problems seem as if they're caused by the low AR, it may be better to fix them, rather than change the AR, as they are difficult jumps in themselves.

Salad
00:56:870 (1) - Maybe x:288? This increased distance feels better to me, as it better emphasises the note here, with a higher dash.

Really nice salad already.

Platter
00:06:344 (1,2) - Dash to 2 feels a bit weird, I'd rather have normal movement from 1 to 2 and then a dash from 2 to 3 for the emphasis on vocal. Move 1 to x:32 and 2 to x:208.
00:08:870 (1) - Move this to x:240, nerfs the HDash a bit, and also gets rid of the jump to 2 which didn't really seem to fit due to the weakness of the vocals there.
00:12:660 (1) - x:80, weakens the HDash a bit, making the flow into the rest of the slider more comfortable for newer players.
00:13:607 (2,3,1) - HDash here feels like it's forcing the catcher against the wall, so I would just move this section to x:368.
00:16:449 (1) - The amount of HDashes in this platter already feels a bit high, but this vocal is relatively weak and there isn't a strong drum like the other hypers here. I would ctrl+H this and move it to x:240.
00:19:292 (2) - x:176, this feels a bit far out from the rest of this section.
00:20:081 (5) - ^, makes this section feel more comfortable for a platter player.
00:24:028 (1) - I think just a strong dash fits this section of the music fine. Maybe x:384?
00:29:081 (1) - ^, x:256.
00:31:449 (4) - x:240, just to weaken this hyper a tiny bit.
00:33:818 (4,1) - Unnecessary HDash, 1 isn't even that strong. Just ctrl+h 4 and move it back to x:304.
00:35:397 (1) - Again, this HDash doesn't feel necessary, this note is quite weak. Ctrl+G makes a nice pattern, especially adding the dash to 2, seeing as this and 2 are very similar sounds so having a dash here but not there is weird.
00:36:028 (3,4) - HDash to 5 also sounds a bit weird, just a strong dash there would be nice (this pattern also seems a bit difficult for a platter). Maybe try ctrl+Hing this section, and moving it to x:416.
00:48:660 (2) - x:320, I'm not sure why you put this as a HDash as these sections weren't HDashes earlier on, it's inconsistent.
00:50:713 (2) - This vocal isn't strong enough for a HDash, there are stronger vocals earlier on which you didn't HDash. Just move this to x:416.
00:53:397 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - HDash here doesn't make sense, whilst the instrument focus changes, it's not to a particularly strong instrument, so a normal dash should be fine. Move this section to x:240.
01:01:292 (4) - x:368, to make the flow of the slider work better after the HDash by weakening it slightly.
01:05:081 (4,5,6,7) - This pattern is far too difficult for a platter. I can't hit this consistentally, I don't think an average platter player could hit it at all. Move 4 and 6 one square to the right each (So 4 on x:240, 6 on x:224).
01:06:344 (4) - Again, this doesn't feel strong enough for a HDash to me, the only sound here is a drum, which isn't as strong as some others which you didn't hyper. x:352 would be nice.
01:09:186 (3) - This piano sound is relatively weak, and the increasing pitch here isn't quite enough to suggest a HDash in a platter in my opinion. x:240 works nicely.
01:09:660 (1,3) - Maybe just move these slightly away from the wall? Keeps the HDashes, but I just don't like how these are right up against the wall. x:16 and x:496 would be enough.
01:23:397 (1) - x:128, HDash doesn't really fit the relatively weak vocal here, and the section earlier on of a similar sound had no HDash so it makes sense to have a normal dash here.
01:28:449 (1) - x:112, keeps the hyper but weakens it a tiny bit to make it more comfortable flow for platter players.

Rain
00:45:186 (5,6) - Make these a HDash for consistency with the others.
00:51:660 (6) - It'd be nice to have a HDash to this for the vocal. Maybe Ctrl+h and move to x:416.
01:09:660 (1,2,3,4) - Seems weird to not have HDashes here considering you had them on the platter here.

Very nice rain.

Alright, done ;)
Topic Starter
Kurokami

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

i got told to nerf stuff
i love nerfing stuff
also m4m



[Platter]
01:05:081 (4,5,6,7) - This pattern is far too difficult for a platter. I can't hit this consistentally, I don't think an average platter player could hit it at all. Move 4 and 6 one square to the right each (So 4 on x:240, 6 on x:224). Nah, this pattern is really easy. You don't even need to press the dash button at all, pressing it will cause miss easily. :P


[Rain]
00:45:186 (5,6) - Make these a HDash for consistency with the others. Thats actually impossible with the current patterns. To make a HDash the distance needs to be 2.5x but here it is only 2.0x. Since I can't move (6) more to left I need to move (5) but then getting it after the previous HDash will be too hard. So better just keep the simple dash here.
00:51:660 (6) - It'd be nice to have a HDash to this for the vocal. Maybe Ctrl+h and move to x:416. Moved (5) instead to keep the flow for the next stream.

Very nice rain.[]

Alright, done ;)
Rest is applied. Thank you. :3
JBHyperion
Recheck time.

General Comments:
  1. Troll Asian Artist Metadata: Fixed
  2. Spread "Imbalance" Cup and Platter successfully nerfed to create a more even spread
Difficulty-Specific Comments:


Cup
  1. No issues! \:D/
Salad
  1. 01:12:660 (6,1) - This can feel a little uncomfortable when you combine spacing + direction change - I'd move 01:12:660 (6) to around x-288 since it's a weaker vocal sound. You could move 01:13:292 (1) to the left instead/as well, but a decent spacing to another strong vocal note at 01:13:923 (2) is also important
  2. 01:20:870 (1) - A tighter angle / more of a curve on this would be cool. Due to the random droplet spawn, this doesn't actually require any movement at all, so it spoils the flow a little
  3. 01:25:923 (1,2,3) - Kind of a weird spacing here, since both (1,2) and (2,3) are 1.6x, but one is a calm-ish clap and the other a strong vocal note + cymbal sound (and both are on the border of requiring dash, making them especially awkward lol). I feel something like this (AR0 to show full pattern) would fit better (1,2) reduced slightly, (2,3) increased by flipping (3,4,5), but you might want to do something different.
Platter
  1. 00:36:818 (2) - This spacing is a little uncomfortable after the strong 1/2 hdash at 00:36:502 (6,1) - I'd consider reducing the spacing here, and/or making the hdash slightly weaker
  2. 00:41:397 (3,4) - Most players will dash straight from the tail of 00:41:081 (2) which makes it quite easy to overshoot and miss (3). I agree that (4) is a stronger sound, so should normally have more distance to it, but due to the strong dash, 1/2 timeline spacing and high BPM, I feel making an even spacing would be acceptable and more comfortable to play here. Consider moving (3) to x-340
  3. 00:47:081 (2,3) - Hdash is quite strong and the slider being at a 45 degree angle makes it easy to droplet miss. I'd try to ove these slightly closer together
Rain
  1. 00:14:555 (3,1) - Yikes, this hdash and inverted slider are pretty easy to droplet miss on. Could you reduce the hdash strength slightly please, perhaps 00:14:555 (3) to x-288?
  2. 00:30:976 (4,5,6) - Every time I play this I want to move left after catching (4) - I'd Ctrl+H 00:31:292 (5,6) and move to x-160 or so, just feels so much more natural to me
  3. 01:25:844 (2,3) - Strong hdash leading into a near-vertical slider means lots of annoying droplet misses. Consider reducing the strength of this
Asking ZiRoX to take a look too, feel free to call me back once you've gone through this + whatever suggestions he brings.
Topic Starter
Kurokami

JBHyperion wrote:

Recheck time.

General Comments:
  1. Troll Asian Artist Metadata: Fixed
  2. Spread "Imbalance" Cup and Platter successfully nerfed to create a more even spread
Difficulty-Specific Comments:


Cup
  1. No issues! \:D/
Salad
  1. 01:25:923 (1,2,3) - Kind of a weird spacing here, since both (1,2) and (2,3) are 1.6x, but one is a calm-ish clap and the other a strong vocal note + cymbal sound (and both are on the border of requiring dash, making them especially awkward lol). I feel something like this (AR0 to show full pattern) would fit better (1,2) reduced slightly, (2,3) increased by flipping (3,4,5), but you might want to do something different. Changed this while kept the current pattern here.
Changed all. /o/
ZiRoX
Check time~

[Cup]
  1. 00:04:923 (4,5,1) - This makes me feel uncomfortable, and I can't really get why. Maybe it's the fact that the downbeat lands on a sliderend, or the relatively large with distances with direction changes. Maybe doing something like the following feels better, give it a try:
  2. 00:23:081 (1,2) - This distance feels a bit large to me, compared to others. I think moving 00:24:028 (2,3) - to x:272 fixes it, as it would have the same distance as other "emphasized patterns" like 00:11:397 (1,2) - .
  3. 00:28:134 (2,1,2) - I think you can move this to the left (maybe x:192 or x:208, or something around that) for two reasons: (1) to add more distance with previous pattern and (2) to put this pattern closer to the larger batch of bananas from the spinner, which is on the left side of the screen.
  4. 00:42:028 (1) - I think the "wa" vocal in the white tick at 00:42:344 - is stronger than the "re" vocal at 00:42:502 -. If I had to pick where to end the slider without mapping both, for simplicity, I would end the slider at the mentioned white tick. For me, at least, it sounds better.
[Salad]
  1. 00:04:449 (2,3,4,1) - Not the best positioning here. It's weird that 00:04:449 (2,3) - has the largest distance when 00:05:713 (3) - is the weakest beat. Move 00:05:713 (3,4) - to the left to reduce this distance and increase the others.
  2. 00:07:607 (3,4,5,6,1,2) - This is lots of tricky movements you have here. I'd move (4) closer to the previous sliderend. And I'd also make (1) go to the right.
  3. 00:12:502 (4) - Move this to x:224. The 3/4 and 1/2 snapping mixture is already hard enough to add such a distance like 00:12:502 (4,5) - .
  4. 00:17:397 (4,1,2,3) - This is another hard thing. I'd remove the note at 00:17:870 (2) - and put 00:17:713 (1) - a bit to the right (a few gridspaces only). The dash only is enough difficulty.
  5. 00:38:239 (2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - I'd reduce the distances here; to me, at least, the music isn't yelling "you have to daaaaaash", which may lead to awkward misses. Main spots are 00:38:239 (2,3) - and 00:39:502 (2,3) -
  6. 00:48:186 (3) - This doesn't play too well. I get you don't want to spam all the 1/2s, but you're really ignoring some strong beats here. I'd prefer a simple 1/1 slider mapped to the white ticks.
  7. 00:50:870 (2) - This note could be removed to provide a break and don't make this look like a 1/2 spam.
  8. 00:52:923 (3) - The repeat doesn't feel too good as it's ending lands on "nothing" (yeah, there's a piano stream, but this lands on neither the beginning nor the finish of that stream). I'd prefer this mapped as a 1/1 slider + a circle (like this)
  9. 00:54:344 (1,2,3,4) - Not the best rhythm choice, IMO. I'd go for something like this (not sure if the vocal really lands on that 1/3 tick):
[Platter]
  1. 00:06:344 (1) - I'd prefer this as a single circle. There's nothing important on the red tick and it provides more emphasis on the vocal at its head.
  2. 00:10:134 (1) - I think this one feels much better if it follows the previous movement (i.e. goes left).
  3. 00:16:134 (2,1,2) - I like this pattern, but I think reducing the distance a bit (i.e. one gridspace) will make it a bit more adequate for a Platter, as it currently feels a bit tight.
  4. 00:26:239 (3,1) - I'm not really fond of the overall movement here. I think making the slider go right and adjusting 00:27:028 (2) - accordingly would be better.
  5. 00:31:923 (1,2,1) - I'd prefer you'd map all the 1/2s here. These 1/1 feel a bit random and not fitting the song at all.
  6. 00:44:870 (4,4) - Putting these two one gridspace closer to the previous note is better. The pattern is a bit tricky.
  7. 00:56:870 (1) - Move this to x:384 and add a hyperdash, I find it quite fitting.
  8. 01:05:081 (4,5,6,7,1) - This is too tricky. The previous pattern (01:04:607 (1,2,3) - ) already requires some dash control, so this 1/4 stream might be a bit unstable, even if it's walkable, so I'd reduce the distances.
  9. 01:23:239 (4,1) - Uh, either hyperdash this or reduce the distance.
  10. 01:29:397 (4,5,1) - (1) is the downbeat, so it's more logical to have the hyperdash to that note instead of (5).
[Rain]
  1. 00:18:976 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - There's something about these hyperdashes that makes me doubtful. I think it's better to got with the hyperdash only at the downbeat at 00:19:607 - .
  2. 00:22:134 (3,4) - Reduce the distance please, it feels a bit like a timing jump.
  3. 00:31:923 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - I feel some direction and position changes would really benefit this part, so here I go: 00:34:765 (3,4) - move to x:400, 00:36:028 (4) - Ctrl+H and move to to x:160, 00:36:344 (5,6) - Ctrl+H and move to x:368.
  4. 00:39:344 (1) - A 1/2 repeat slider going right fits much better with the song.
  5. 00:39:818 (2,3) - On this part, a 1/1 slider would fit better.
  6. 00:41:397 (5) - I'm not sure that making this a repeat slider is the best idea. The vocals here are really prominent, so mapping the drum at 00:41:713 - doesn't feel like a must. In fact, I think it sounds better without it.
  7. 00:51:660 (6) - ^Same here, I don't think that mapping the drum at the downbeat is necessary as the vocals are really prominent.
  8. 00:54:660 (2,3,4) - I think the hyperdash feels better if done from (3) to (4) than from (2) to (3) as it is now.
  9. 00:56:028 (2,3) - This is 2 gridspaces from becoming an hyperdash, so it's terribly hard. Either reduce it or plainly make it an hyperdash.
  10. 00:56:660 (4,1) - ^Same. I'd go for the hyperdash.
  11. 00:58:607 (3,4,5,6) - Move this to x:504. It will make the first note easier to catch, so you don't miss the hyperdash.
  12. 01:13:292 (1,3) - I'd move this 1 grid space closer to the center, to make the pattern a bit easier.
  13. 01:20:792 (7,1) - I missed an hyperdash here :(
Topic Starter
Kurokami

ZiRoX wrote:

Check time~

[Cup]
  1. 00:04:923 (4,5,1) - This makes me feel uncomfortable, and I can't really get why. Maybe it's the fact that the downbeat lands on a sliderend, or the relatively large with distances with direction changes. Maybe doing something like the following feels better, give it a try: Pls, update the mapset next time first.
[Salad]
  1. 00:54:344 (1,2,3,4) - Not the best rhythm choice, IMO. I'd go for something like this (not sure if the vocal really lands on that 1/3 tick):
    ugh no. That was never aimed to follow the vocal.
[Platter]
  1. 00:31:923 (1,2,1) - I'd prefer you'd map all the 1/2s here. These 1/1 feel a bit random and not fitting the song at all. Yea, I don't want 1/1 spam.
  2. 00:44:870 (4,4) - Putting these two one gridspace closer to the previous note is better. The pattern is a bit tricky. I have no problem with it. The pattern might be tricky but its catchable even if you see it first time.
  3. 01:05:081 (4,5,6,7,1) - This is too tricky. The previous pattern (01:04:607 (1,2,3) - ) already requires some dash control, so this 1/4 stream might be a bit unstable, even if it's walkable, so I'd reduce the distances. I already said it I'm not gonna change this pattern. Removed the previous disntances instead.
[Rain]
  1. 00:54:660 (2,3,4) - I think the hyperdash feels better if done from (3) to (4) than from (2) to (3) as it is now. wut
  2. 01:20:792 (7,1) - I missed an hyperdash here :( Yea, I'm not CLSW
ZiRoX
Fixed some last stuff on IRC. Bubbled!
JBHyperion
Recheck time - was a little concerned with the Salad-Platter spread gap (again orz), so I discussed some things with Deif in PM

Platter
  1. 00:16:449 (1,2) - Quite an uncomfortable return movement on the zig-zag here, try(2) at x-256 instead
  2. 00:28:765 (3,1) - Hdash isn't really necessary here, this is a low-pitched sound with far less emphasis than 00:26:555 (1) which currently has the same spacing. A regular dash would be enough here
  3. 00:35:081 (4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - Pretty punishing for a Platter diff imo, spacing here could be turned down a little to provide a more comfortable experience
  4. 00:38:081 (1,2,3) - This seems quite forced, with a stop/start movement required due to the angling on the sliders. This is compounded by the strong return movement to 00:38:870 (4,5) - I think reducing the distance and flattening out the sliders slightly would make this flow more smoothly
  5. 00:47:081 (2,3) - Same as 00:28:765 (3,1)
  6. 01:09:660 (1,2,3,4) - Seems a little overdone, hdash can probably be removed between these two in favour of regular dashes, keeping the hdash between 01:10:607 (5,1) to emphasize the start of the kiai/chorus
Everything else is fine, call me back once you've responded to this.
Topic Starter
Kurokami
Done. I didn't liked the last one too much but accepted for the sake of the spread. Its not important to keep those at this level anyway.
JBHyperion
And we're back

Requalified~
Acme Deizd Void
Took a while for this to requalified o.o
-Sh1n1-
Finally >~</ Gratz kurokami
Xinely
Waaaaa grats kuro
ZiRoX
Waiting for Deif to pop up last day with a dummy message to scare us.
Topic Starter
Kurokami
Nah, I can't be scared. /o/
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