Echo wrote:

Pasonia wrote:

There was no lying involved. The role of Vanilla Ghostie is perfectly valid.

The way you say "perfectly valid" makes it sound like "yes, this role could possibly exist, but it isn't really my role"

Pasonia wrote:

adam's either a probing scum who got it real right, or he's a probing vanilla who got it all wrong. I'll put my money on the latter.

So you think adam's a vanilla even though he admits to lying about the role claim? And along with that, he put suspicion on you with no "reason". But instead of voting (or FOS or whatever, since you might want to vote me over him), you instead clear him of suspicion? Admitting to lying is a pretty big thing, and I think more investigation should be done before you publicly pass any kind of verdict. I see inconsistency here with the way you claim to deal with people pointing fingers at you.

Take it this way, Echo.

Those who knows what this means would know what I'm referring to. I wouldn't stand by and watch while people vote me off, so I'd think.

Besides, why would I foolishly allow myself to be exposed if I were scum, hmm? If that was a lie back there I'd have backed down, but the problem was that adam is more likely probing as a Vanilla than not by claiming that it was a lie. It was a tactic to test if I would automatically back down and claim that the Vanilla Ghosties is an invalid role name, which would definitely make adam doubly sure that I am the scum. The scum is unlikely to know what the vanillas' unique names are (it changes every CM game depending on strager's libid... uhh, I mean, his mood and theme) but I know what it is.

Pasonia wrote:

Besides, why would I foolishly allow myself to be exposed if I were scum, hmm? If that was a lie back there I'd have backed down,

starts with w, ends with m

Pasonia wrote:

but the problem was that adam is more likely probing as a Vanilla than not by claiming that it was a lie. It was a tactic to test if I would automatically back down and claim that the Vanilla Ghosties is an invalid role name, which would definitely make adam doubly sure that I am the scum. The scum is unlikely to know what the vanillas' unique names are (it changes every CM game depending on strager's libid... uhh, I mean, his mood and theme) but I know what it is.

How did you know adam was lying to test you? That's one big assumption. From your past few games, you would have called him out on it. This stinks of Pasonia-adam pair (not necessarily scumpair, but paired anyway) to me. Either that or one of the two is buddying the other.

Echo wrote:

Pasonia wrote:

Besides, why would I foolishly allow myself to be exposed if I were scum, hmm? If that was a lie back there I'd have backed down,

starts with w, ends with m

Pasonia wrote:

but the problem was that adam is more likely probing as a Vanilla than not by claiming that it was a lie. It was a tactic to test if I would automatically back down and claim that the Vanilla Ghosties is an invalid role name, which would definitely make adam doubly sure that I am the scum. The scum is unlikely to know what the vanillas' unique names are (it changes every CM game depending on strager's libid... uhh, I mean, his mood and theme) but I know what it is.

How did you know adam was lying to test you? That's one big assumption. From your past few games, you would have called him out on it. This stinks of Pasonia-adam pair (not necessarily scumpair, but paired anyway) to me. Either that or one of the two is buddying the other.

One game not equal the other. Note that I correctly figured out that you were scum on Game 1 because of the wordplay, and nailed the scum on the second, both using widely varying tactics. WIFOM? That's the way I roll~

Anyway, I hope I'm right about adam being nonscum.

OOC post

Pasonia wrote:

Note that I correctly figured out that you were scum on Game 1 because of the wordplay,

Uh... The mere fact that I labelled you as scum because of a cop investigation should have been more than enough to let you know I was scum in that game. That was unavoidable. Also 0_o was proven innocent from his first D1 post, so it had to be me.

The point was for me to put on a convincing argument for 0_o to vote for you, which I did manage. There is no point in you knowing who the scum are if you can't convince others.

Echo wrote:

OOC post

Pasonia wrote:

Note that I correctly figured out that you were scum on Game 1 because of the wordplay,

Uh... The mere fact that I labelled you as scum because of a cop investigation should have been more than enough to let you know I was scum in that game. That was unavoidable. Also 0_o was proven innocent from his first D1 post, so it had to be me.

The point was for me to put on a convincing argument for 0_o to vote for you, which I did manage. There is no point in you knowing who the scum are if you can't convince others.

OOC response:

No, the problem was, he did a blind vote that game, and he admitted to that himself at endgame. I mean, for someone who left his own arse wide open by claiming the sane cop role after believing that SFG had held it, there was NO fucking way 0_o could've gotten that wrong and not catch on, but he STILL got it wrong anyway; this invalidates the argument that I can't convince him.

IC:

Why are you so concerned about the OOC? Seriously, this is CM3 and not CM1. Your sudden switching of topics is becoming very worrying for me; adam has thus far not responded on my reply to him and already you're here doubting the validity of my argument.

If you ask me, that seems like you trying to scumpaint me now.

tldr, If you're the scum, then you're being stupid scumpainting me now instead of next day. If you're not the scum, you're wasting your efforts on me.

Really I'm just having fun watching you two.

Pasonia wrote:

No, the problem was, he did a blind vote that game, and he admitted to that himself at endgame. I mean, for someone who left his own arse wide open by claiming the sane cop role after believing that SFG had held it, there was NO fucking way 0_o could've gotten that wrong and not catch on, but he STILL got it wrong anyway; this invalidates the argument that I can't convince him.

We've been over this. He didn't make a blind vote; I convinced him to vote for you rather than me. If I used my influence as a "better player", then that's my bonus and your loss. The sane cop claim could be explained easily since I would have to say SFG had this role when I claimed Miller. The moment I posted my "plan" the SFG-as-sane-cop thing went out the window implicitly.

Pasonia wrote:

Why are you so concerned about the OOC? Seriously, this is CM3 and not CM1.

You seem to think that 0_o would never have voted me; this isn't true. If you presented better arguments (or I presented worse arguments) then he would have voted me.

------

Pasonia wrote:

WIFOM? That's the way I roll~

If you're town, then I seriously hope you will reconsider. WIFOM moves the discussion from logic to guesswork; it only serves to distract town - ie. it is one of the mafia's best allies, and has no use for town. I've said this so many times before.

Pasonia wrote:

Your sudden switching of topics is becoming very worrying for me; adam has thus far not responded on my reply to him and already you're here doubting the validity of my argument.

The point is that your argument is WIFOM, which means it makes no logical sense. In other words, I'm not merely doubting the validity of your argument - your argument is invalid!

Pasonia wrote:

If you ask me, that seems like you trying to scumpaint me now.

How am I scumpainting you? As usual, my points are not only plausible, but are also logically sound. If pulling out logically correct points is scumpainting, then I am at a loss for words.

Pasonia wrote:

tldr, If you're the scum, then you're being stupid scumpainting me now instead of next day. If you're not the scum, you're wasting your efforts on me.

So you're telling me to just take your word that you're town, as usual? Unlike you, I don't have the privilege of reading your role pm - which, if I may remind you, is the only proof you've got of your role. Throwing a sentence like this into the game (which admittedly you've done every single game) is extremely scummy.

------

My advice for you: actually try to listen to other people's advice for once? As I've said many times before - if you're town, then your attitude in these games really hurts the game for town. The way you act is extremely scummy due to the way you present your points (either plain statements with no evidence to back up or logically invalid arguments). If you're wondering why people struggle to trust you - this is pretty much the big "why".

Echo wrote:

How am I scumpainting you? As usual, my points are not only plausible, but are also logically sound. If pulling out logically correct points is scumpainting, then I am at a loss for words.

Echo wrote:

Pasonia wrote:

There was no lying involved. The role of Vanilla Ghostie is perfectly valid.

The way you say "perfectly valid" makes it sound like "yes, this role could possibly exist, but it isn't really my role"

[sarcasm]That is logically sound.[/sarcasm]

Echo wrote:

Pasonia wrote:

adam's either a probing scum who got it real right, or he's a probing vanilla who got it all wrong. I'll put my money on the latter.

So you think adam's a vanilla even though he admits to lying about the role claim? And along with that, he put suspicion on you with no "reason". But instead of voting (or FOS or whatever, since you might want to vote me over him), you instead clear him of suspicion? Admitting to lying is a pretty big thing, and I think more investigation should be done before you publicly pass any kind of verdict. I see inconsistency here with the way you claim to deal with people pointing fingers at you.

From the games I've played with you you seem like a clever guy. Why then do you have so much trouble understanding what Pasonia is saying? If Pasonia's role really is Vanilla Ghostie he'd think that adam is a probing vanilla, because he got the role right. (Although "Vanilla Ghostie" is probably an obvious name choice for the vanilla role in this game).

What I'm assuming you're referring to with how he deals with finger pointing is how he reacted to your "..." accusation. That was an accusation with no basis. You're comparing two things that really aren't related and then calling his behavior inconsistent...

*At a loss for words*

Show me your logically sound arguments :/

Also, wtf does OOC and IC mean?

I think it's Out Of Character and In Character or Context, depending on what we're talking about. (...I'd make a joke here, but I don't feel like it.)
Or something else today? I told you guys how I feel about these things right?

I wonder - why are you so eager to pin me down now, Echo? With a long page of arguments and a shortage of time on my side (there's an aeroplane mesh I've yet to do) I may as well come up with what I think is this game's gameplan.

4 vanillas, 1 cop. Seriously, strager, you know how to fuck equally with scums as well as you did with town. I know you aren't gonna say it aloud, but fuckin' hell, there could be NO auxillaries this game at all, which will mean the focus is all on talking.

Based on what is going on now, I have a few conclusions to make.

1. adam2046 first claimed Vanilla Ghostie, which is a pretty strong statement. Unless he really got lucky on his first try, this means he's an innocent. Suspicion level: Low.
2. I was second to claim Vanilla Ghostie, but saying it vaguely meant Echo had a chance to attack me. Suspicion level: Variable (it's up to you guys)
3. Echo attacked me for not claiming role properly (play on words), and the way this goes (since he didn't catch on to anything I hinted about) I can safely assume that he's either being stupid (which is rare) or he's actively scumpainting now. For some reason, I look like a good target to scumpaint across all the games of Mafia I've played.

I cannot comment much on Lucidity or Derekku, because I've been so distracted with other stuff like mapping and playing other games, that I hadn't been looking. If I had to say something though, it's that Derekku and Lucidity have so far been peaceful on the matter (too peaceful in the case of Derekku). If I were given a say in this, it'll be something like this.

Vote Echo. (this means a reiteration of my earlier vote)

If this turns out all wrong, lynch D-Chan.

Ok so, I think I've seen enough, Vanilla Ghostie is actually the vanilla role.

Derekku's lack of talking about anything relevant at all has led me to look at his posts again.

Derekku Chan wrote:

Hey strag, when is the deadline?

As I have said before, focusing on when the day ends (and not actually doing anything during the day, showing a general disinterest in day actions) makes me feel that a person is scum (simply waiting for night.)
Also he blamed not discussing on me not talking. (I see no real link, he could totally talk about Echo or something.)

I consider the possibility that Pasonia is Vanilla quite likely for now (not really sold on the idea.)

That said I'd like to lynch Derek today if that's quite alright with you people...How do you feel about it Derek?
Vote: DerekkuChan

Firstly let me Claim: Blabbering Idiot. Claim: Vanilla Ghostie.

Pasonia wrote:

I wonder - why are you so eager to pin me down now, Echo? With a long page of arguments and a shortage of time on my side (there's an aeroplane mesh I've yet to do) I may as well come up with what I think is this game's gameplan.

4 vanillas, 1 cop. Seriously, strager, you know how to fuck equally with scums as well as you did with town. I know you aren't gonna say it aloud, but fuckin' hell, there could be NO auxillaries this game at all, which will mean the focus is all on talking.

I was thinking the same thing. I wanted to claim Vanilla Ghostie, because if there exist others with the same role you basically prove your innocence to them, but then adam did it '-' That pretty much cleared him for me, but now I couldn't claim because that would leave only 2 people with possible aux roles and make the Mafia's life easier. After Pasonia claimed, I definitely couldn't, because that left 2 people without claims: 1 Mafia and the other our possible only aux role? I think strager could quite possibly have a game with with no aux roles. So now I've claimed. (All of this is based on everyone telling the truth of course )

If adam guessed the Vanilla role we're all doomed :/

Basically my suspicions lie on Echo (For claiming to be very logical, when he's only speculating. More like scumpainting than scumhunting tbh) and Derekku for totally lurking and being disinterested in the game.

Pasonia wrote:

If this turns out all wrong, lynch D-Chan.

Based solely on lurking? (Not that there's much else to go on)

Hehehe.

I told the Mafia the name of some possible roles. ;P

EDIT: Just noticed some of you guys talking about CM3 in #mafia. Please don't do that. =[

Well that's just great.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Pasonia wrote:

Otherwise, strager, you have effectively murdered us all here -_-

I'm so cool.

(I swear, though, this game is balanced. Don't worry.)

adam2046 wrote:

Derekku's lack of talking about anything relevant at all has led me to look at his posts again.

Derekku Chan wrote:

Hey strag, when is the deadline?

As I have said before, focusing on when the day ends (and not actually doing anything during the day, showing a general disinterest in day actions) makes me feel that a person is scum (simply waiting for night.)]

I only asked when the deadline was because NO ONE WAS SAYING ANYTHING. Strager usually has ~5 day deadlines and I really don't think that we should give mafia a free kill because we hadn't voted.

Pasonia wrote:

If I had to say something though, it's that Derekku and Lucidity have so far been peaceful on the matter (too peaceful in the case of Derekku).

Again, I've had nothing to say. The past few days you and Echo have been arguing back and forth. That's about it. :/

-----

Let's see... since adam claimed first, it would see that he should be less suspicious. But, since strager said he gave the name of the roles to mafia, then adam's claim means nothing. Anyone claiming "Vanilla Ghostie" could be mafia. :S

Pasonia wrote:

adam2046 first claimed Vanilla Ghostie, which is a pretty strong statement. Unless he really got lucky on his first try, this means he's an innocent. Suspicion level: Low.

Yet he then claimed he wasn't. I don't see why his earlier claim should have more priority than his later unclaim.

Right now, I'm attacking you for your selective attention to detail, which is again a scummy trait.

Pasonia likes to use the word scumpaint whenever anyone attacks him. Instead of just talking his way out of the lynch, he just attacks whoever is attacking him, saying they're scumpainting. Again, this is scummy because it shows you have no reason to back yourself up.

How am I supposed to get more information about each person if I don't put pressure on individual people? Am I just supposed to magically know who the scum are and only attack them? Do you really think I'm psychic and can know who are scum and who are not just from reading what people post? If I may remind you, scum are trying to act town. To average players like all of us here, without questioning they are indistinguishable from town. You act scummy; of course I'm going to question you further in order to better determine your alignment.

Whether I am town or scum is a moot point; if I'm scum, then you're making yourself an easy target, and if I'm town, then you're luring attention away from scum and hurting the investigations of the players.

Obviously right now I'm in a kind of fix - if I continue down this track, then Pasonia will do nothing except try to lynch me, which is a pointless endeavour, due to his belief that anyone who attacks him is scum if he is town; if I stop attacking him, then he's still going to do nothing except try to lynch me, using the reasoning "oh he's backing off because he's scared of all the attention he's getting"

Echo wrote:

Pasonia wrote:

adam2046 first claimed Vanilla Ghostie, which is a pretty strong statement. Unless he really got lucky on his first try, this means he's an innocent. Suspicion level: Low.

Yet he then claimed he wasn't. I don't see why his earlier claim should have more priority than his later unclaim.

Right now, I'm attacking you for your selective attention to detail, which is again a scummy trait.

The unclaim was irrelevant, because the role "Vanilla Ghostie" DOES exist. At that point in the game the only way he could know about it is if he was a vanilla or got extremely lucky in guessing it.

After Pasonia's post strager informed us that he gave possible roles to the Mafia, so that kind of weakens adam's innocence. So again, I don't see where the selective attention to detail is ?

All of this feels very basic to me :/ How are you missing it Echo?

Something just feels different about you in this game? :\

And btw @Pasonia, posting infrequently is NOT a scumtell. You should know that more than anyone (unless you don't read through your own WW games).

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Because obviously I'm not scum, duh.

Did I miss the obvious bit?

By the way - Lucidity: how do you know that the Vanilla Ghostie role exists?

Lucidity wrote:

Firstly let me Claim: Blabbering Idiot. Claim: Vanilla Ghostie.

...

^ What he said.

Echo wrote:

Pasonia wrote:

adam2046 first claimed Vanilla Ghostie, which is a pretty strong statement. Unless he really got lucky on his first try, this means he's an innocent. Suspicion level: Low.

Yet he then claimed he wasn't. I don't see why his earlier claim should have more priority than his later unclaim.

Right now, I'm attacking you for your selective attention to detail, which is again a scummy trait.

Pasonia likes to use the word scumpaint whenever anyone attacks him. Instead of just talking his way out of the lynch, he just attacks whoever is attacking him, saying they're scumpainting. Again, this is scummy because it shows you have no reason to back yourself up.

How am I supposed to get more information about each person if I don't put pressure on individual people? Am I just supposed to magically know who the scum are and only attack them? Do you really think I'm psychic and can know who are scum and who are not just from reading what people post? If I may remind you, scum are trying to act town. To average players like all of us here, without questioning they are indistinguishable from town. You act scummy; of course I'm going to question you further in order to better determine your alignment.

Whether I am town or scum is a moot point; if I'm scum, then you're making yourself an easy target, and if I'm town, then you're luring attention away from scum and hurting the investigations of the players.

Obviously right now I'm in a kind of fix - if I continue down this track, then Pasonia will do nothing except try to lynch me, which is a pointless endeavour, due to his belief that anyone who attacks him is scum if he is town; if I stop attacking him, then he's still going to do nothing except try to lynch me, using the reasoning "oh he's backing off because he's scared of all the attention he's getting"

So you read me like a book.

So I don't care, really. You're setting yourself up to be lynched by pressuring people in this manner. If you hadn't realised it already, the two times you pressured me and kept quoting other posts (this time, CM1) I had silently indicated that I'm pissed at being pressured and hounded like a hellhound on my butt. I guess anybody would be, and you hadn't even FUCKING BOTHERED TO BACK THE FUCK OFF when I have hinted enough in my tones for the subsequent replies I gave you.

You don't FUCKING see the others pressuring anybody else in CM3, do you?

Oh, and if it isn't FUCKING obvious enough, last time round I was town when you did this. So what reason do I have not to believe that you're scum this round, too, given that this had been the way you rolled in two CM games?!

Oh and if you're going to say "See, Pasonia snapped, let's vote to lynch him" I'm going to say I totally expected it as well.

Come the fuck on. I ain't hurtin' no cause. Everything has been what *YOU* assumed it to be.

Echo wrote:

Obviously right now I'm in a kind of fix - if I continue down this track, then Pasonia will do nothing except try to lynch me, which is a pointless endeavour, due to his belief that anyone who attacks him is scum if he is town; if I stop attacking him, then he's still going to do nothing except try to lynch me, using the reasoning "oh he's backing off because he's scared of all the attention he's getting"

Why are you assuming that Pasonia is town in that paragraph?

Mod: Votecount plox ;D?

Because I'm leaning on Pasonia being town.

But the reason isn't because of his post above; that post would have been scummy too because scum would swear to make it looks like they're town. WIFOM, but generally townies do it much less often.

Anyway, like I said in the first sentence, I think Pasonia is town.

unvote

I'm too lazy to do a votecount. =[

Echo: -
adam: Derekku
Pasonia: Echo
Lucidity: Derekku
Derekku: adam

Hopefully those are right.

You still random voting me Derek?

Am I? *goes back and checks*

EDIT: Seems like it.

Teehee, oh you etc.

*hug* <3

Ahahano, no one will ever love you, cause you're mafia.

Derekku, I'm sure I've told you you're NOT a Twilight Brownie this game.

Cause he's mafia.

strager wrote:

Derekku, I'm sure I've told you you're NOT a Twilight Brownie this game.

=| And what's THAT supposed to mean?

@adam No.

Derekku Chan wrote:

strager wrote:

Derekku, I'm sure I've told you you're NOT a Twilight Brownie this game.

=| And what's THAT supposed to mean?

It means you're not a Twilight Brownie this game.

I wonder what strager is thinking. He's kinda giving the game away a bit.

strager wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

strager wrote:

Derekku, I'm sure I've told you you're NOT a Twilight Brownie this game.

=| And what's THAT supposed to mean?

It means you're not a Twilight Brownie this game.

Oh, okay.

</sarcasm>

This game is dead.

vote derekku

Echo wrote:

This game is dead.

vote derekku

I agree. Lack of activity = a sad Derekku. (Yeah I've been inactive too, but whatever)

Vote: Derekku

Yeah, I was scum, but had we all posted more, I was gonna try to put together a good defense and claim cop or something lolz

Side note: I'm sure none of you were Twilight Brownies this game.

Main note: Blargh boring dead games.

;_;

Derekku dies. Derekku is Mafia, the rest are Vanilla Townies except Echo, who was a Lyncher. Echo would win if he lynched Lucidity.

Did lucidity know I was trying to find him?

Echo wrote:

Did lucidity know I was trying to find him?

I planned on mentioning it to her LyLo.

Sup. I'm a hermaphrodite.

Also a suggestion for future games: Why not post the Vanilla Townie's role name for all to see? That way no one can claim their role and be perceived as innocent immediately by the others who share the rolename. It seems to easy.

Lucidity wrote:

It seems to easy.

*too

About the other stuff: use your brain. =] If you clear someone, don't clear them for good unless there is conclusive proof. That hardly ever comes from closed setups like this one. So, just be on your toes.

I would have thought that quoting your Role PM is conclusive proof pretty much, but with an infinite amount of other role abilities I guess that's not true.

It's also gay

Unsticky already!

Also thanks for correcting my typo's. Next time edit my post too! Thanks.