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Something about ranking the maps by LV in mania (o2-like)

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PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura
Hai everyone ~

It's just something I thought a little while ago, but since I have no time to log into osu! and ask the community directly and don't think it is worth a feature request for now as it seems complicated to implement for what it has to offer, I'll post it here.

What do you thinking about ranking mania maps (or any other mode maps since it is also the case I believe) by LV of difficulty as in o2jam in osu! ? Perhaps not as "spread" as the LVs were in o2jam, because I honestly feel no difference between a level 60 song and a ~70 one, both are considered ET to me and give me headaches, but more something like xxbidiao made in his spreadsheet in Entozer's thread (mania maps for beginners/novices/advanced player), starting from 1 (I believe) for the easiest maps and ending with 21 for the really hard ones.

At the moment, the only way - for me - to figure out if a 5-stars map is indeed difficult or not without playing the map is by looking at the total number of objects and divide it by the length of the map in minutes to get an idea of the amount of notes coming down overall. With the LV system one would be able to keep a track of their skill easier than it is now and help choosing their maps depending on their skill rather than pure guessing. I know o2jam difficulty ranking is not perfect and some maps displaying an lower level were in fact a bit harder than some higher ones, but I think it is better than the current system. Or at least it makes sense to me.

What do you think ? I'm pretty sure some of you guys have already thought about it.

Sorry for my bad english, have a nice day.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
You can name your diffs whatever you want... I discussed the same sort of idea with Loctav and he was entirely against it. The star difficulty system will still be used, just like it always has been.

And by the way, part of the problem with charts above level 50 is that different communities of charters use different difficulty scales.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
Problem is the star rating system has almost no purpose in osu!standard either, other than E/N/H (bottom skill levels). You still have to play the map to find out how hard it is.

It makes no sense, anywhere.
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura

Bobbias wrote:

You can name your diffs whatever you want... I discussed the same sort of idea with Loctav and he was entirely against it. The star difficulty system will still be used, just like it always has been.

And by the way, part of the problem with charts above level 50 is that different communities of charters use different difficulty scales.
That's what I thought and I can sort of understand why. I guess we could just go and rank them by ourselves if we want to do so.
Thanks for the info about high level charts.


RaneFire wrote:

Problem is the star rating system has almost no purpose in osu!standard either, other than E/N/H (bottom skill levels). You still have to play the map to find out how hard it is.

It makes no sense, anywhere.
Yes, the rating system is very limited, hence why I shared my thoughts here. A possible solution would be to increase the maximum number of stars in order to better represent a map's real difficulty. I think this is something Loctav would agree with a bit more.

Edit : but then again I believe this is something that has probably been discussed too.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Yeah, this has been discussed by a number of us before. Mostly in chat. Agka, myself, loctav and a few other people I can't recall all discussed it in chat a while back, and loctav unequivocally said that the star system will not be replaced.

I believe it has already been adjusted to be more accurate with mania but I agree that having a 5 star system, even with the 2 decimal places, is not particularly good for mania, due to the very large range of difficulty in mania. Best we can do is continually request that the star system be made more accurate, and hope that peppy or woc improves it until it's at an acceptable level. I do wish we had more access to the underlying algorithms used for that sort of calculation, because I'm sure if the community was allowed to look at the formula in depth, we should be able to come up with a better alternative which more accurately reflects the perceived difficulty of a map.
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura
Indeed, if we knew how the rating is calculated, we would probably come up with something more accurate. I honestly don't think leaking the way the rating system works would cause any harm. It's not like giving us the formula behind the pp system, I can understand why they wouldn't do that, but there is no way we could abuse/exploit the rating system. Actually there would be benefits only. In an other community (symthic.com) about Battlefield 3 (think : AAA game, commercial game, etc...) the devs gave us access to most of the game data, such as weapons' stats, material resistance, etc... which allowed to balance the game for them in return (which they sort of did). The same can be done here, and it's simply a formula. :)
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Well, peppy said PPV2's formula will eventually be public knowledge. But I'd bet by that time peppy will feel like it's to his liking enough that he thinks only small tweaks are necessary (which may or may not be the case).
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