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[Rule Change] Slider Velocity multipliers usage.

posted
Total Posts
153
Topic Starter
Kodora
After a long discussion this topic was changed to allow editing of osu files to achieve extra speed changes.

Suggested change:

To rule:

Do not manually edit anything in an .osu file that cannot be changed through the Editor. The only exceptions are .osu-specific storyboards, slider velocity multipliers and skin-related options such as SliderBorder and SliderTrackOverride.
To guideline:

A reasonable amount, generally three(excluding tiny velocity shifts made to correct the length of some sliders), of slider velocity multipliers should be used.(Examples: 0.5x, 1.0x and 2.0x or 0.75x, 1.00x and 1.5x, but not 1.00x, 0.98x and 1.02, since they're tiny enough to not be a real change). If slider velocity changes are able to be merged (e.g. close values like 0.8x and 0.7x) while still flowing/working correctly, then they should be. While you can generally use a good range of slider velocity multipliers(from 0.5x to 2.0x), you can manually edit the .osu file to obtain an unlimited range of multipliers. When using slider velocity multipliers obtained like this, try to test them with an handful of peoples with various skill levels (dependent on the difficulty of the map) to know if the way you used the slider velocity change played good.

Garven wrote:

Considering how infrequent this would be used, it would be better to amend the editing of osu files rule then continue this movement to allow going beyond the constriction in special cases.
Wise speedchange usage requires very, very good mapping experiense, especially if mapper decided to cross current limitation. However, in specified cases it may works, and works enough intuitive and playable. Together we decided to follow Garven's suggestion about allowing editing .osz for speedchanges for specified cases. Any abusely usage can be prevented by popping/unranking over quality reason (unreasonable SV changes usage for this case), but good usage may chance to get ranked/approved category.

Old post
As maybe all you know, current osu! standard editor uses x0.50-x2.00 slider velocity multiplier. I think its too limited and makes no sense at all. Since a lot of mappers already supporting this idea as well i decided to open this topic.

For example, osu! mania editor already uses different slider velocity multiplier (x0.10-x10.0) My opinion is it would be nice if it will be allowed for osu! standard mode too, it will give a lot of space for mappers creativity.

Quick note to people who afraid that it can give a lot of abuse potential:

1)We have Beatmap Appreciation Team to prevent any abuse usage. BATs here also to prevent any abuse usage in maps, so if it will be used as a huge abuse it just wont be ranked (or will be unranked over subjective reason). Few abuses shouldnt stop creative potential, especially if they can be prevented.

2)We already have approved maps what uses different SV multiplier.

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/98451 - this map uses x0.13 and x0.20 sliders (00:12:303 (4) - and 10:44:207 (1) - ). They plays well, fits the music and works enough intuitive
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/92051 - this map uses x2.40 slider (08:03:290 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - ) The progressive increasing of slider velocity makes it plays intuitive and it fits the music as well too.

Some not ranked maps for example:

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/221689 - progressive increasing of slider velocity (last part, including x5.00 sliders)
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/289049 - Intuitive usage of sliders what have higher than x2.00 speed (Koi wa Chaos no Shimobenari part)

New slider velocity multiplier can give a lot of potential for creativity usage and abuse usage can always be prevented.

Any suggestions and opinions are welcome.
mintong89
I support this.
Naikaze
support
soulfear
support
scanter
support.
Satellite

Fear wrote:

support

scanter wrote:

support.
support~
Saten
Although it's nice to have, it's never recommended to go beyond/below that point.
Those who uses it knows what they are doing, but there might still be someone who misuses it...
Aka
have my full suppport! :o
Flask
This is fking awesome. Support.
Evil_Twilight
Support. ouo
HabiHolic
support~
Flower
Did a short chat about this. Supporting. (I don't really use changing SV, though)

chatlog
22:43 Kodora: http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/151583 support please ;_;
22:45 Flower: wtf is this. let me see
23:01 Flower: I can't support this. Anyone will be able to make shit maps much easier.
23:01 Flower: Maybe we can add warnings like "Wou must know wtf are you doing when you set to 2.00x or higher"
23:03 Kodora: did you even look at examples what i give?
23:04 Kodora: i opened this not for reason "allow x10.0 everywhere"
23:04 Kodora: it can be done without abuse usage
23:04 Flower: I did. It is nonsense that because you can make them, you can enable this like free.
23:04 Flower: What if I tell you your standard is different from many people?
23:05 Kodora: x0.50-x2.0 can be abused as fuck too
23:05 Flower: 0.5-2 is absolutly enough to use. Why use x10?
23:05 Kodora: x3.0 can be used well too
23:06 Flower: The only reason I can come up with using more than x.5-x2 is for multi bpm maps.
23:06 Flower: Nothing more, hinestly.
23:07 Kodora: i just hope you will like it if it will be implimented
23:07 Flower: Well generally my reason not supporting this is I hardly ever use SV change.
23:08 Flower: You ever played my map? My most hardest map use consistent SV >.>
23:08 Flower: Most of my *
23:08 Kodora: i played all of your maps
23:08 Kodora: even what made for fun
23:08 Kodora: :3
23:09 Kodora: this feature is for mappers what love different SV usage. not like i'm abuse it everywhere but sometimes i want to have x0.25 sliders
23:09 Flower: Yep, this is the point. If you want to make it for fun you can edit in notepad, no one will come and nuke you. However the editor is mostly for maps for rank.
23:10 Kodora: most of maps are aimed for rank, isnt it?
23:10 Kodora: i can tell sad trusth - ppy disable downloading for gravelyarded maps with time if they have no updates
23:11 Flower: They are.
23:13 Flower: Well, so what's your point then? The maps you listed mostly are maps for fun and not for rank.
23:16 Kodora: i linked two already approved maps
23:18 Flower: You still can edit the slider velocity in notepad or mania, can't you? I think it is a tech wall to prevent sv abuse. (I'm not saying only few mappers should have the skill, I don't even care if the feature is implemented.)
23:18 Kodora: My poit is SV changes higher than x2.0 and slower than x0.50 should be allowed if it fits and playes well. If you do not want to use them in your maps then dont use it, but this important for other mappers
23:18 Kodora: *point
23:19 Flower: How can you prevent abuse?
23:20 Kodora: we have BATs to decided what is abuse and what is not. It's map's quality point
23:20 Kodora: If it fits and playes well i dont see any point to have it not approved
23:20 Flower: The BATs have absolutely different points. See Akiyama Yuko maps.
23:22 Kodora: we have appropriate points. BATs wont unrank maps untill it mapped in acceptable way
23:22 Kodora: and please dont give me #modhelp's opinions as example
23:22 Flower: what #modhelp ? I did not go there today.
23:23 Flower: No too bad eventually. Have my support.
yanlu
This is good. :3
Gloria Guard
I'll support =3=/
Kinomi
support
Hinsvar
Supporting this. This way, there will be more flexibility regarding the usage of slider velocities.

I personally think 0.10-10.00x is pretty extreme for the standard mode (if compared with osu!mania), but 0.25-2.00x feels kinda limited too. I'm okay with this.

And there shouldn't be any worry about someone abusing this (read: Changing slider velocities randomly with reasons like "just because") in a map that's going for ranking or approval; as long as there are modders and BAT members around, the abuse will eventually be pointed out.
Roxas
Support!
Lan wings
Support!
Rizia
Support :3
[ Zzz ]
support
Lieselotte
Support~~ ;)
meiikyuu
yes c:
BeatofIke
Eh... I semi-support!
KSHR

Hinsvar wrote:

I personally think 0.10-10.00x is pretty extreme for the standard mode (if compared with osu!mania), but 0.25-2.00x feels kinda limited too. I'm okay with this.
quiet agree with this.
it's not bad to have but the permissible range should be discussed more to prevent abuse imo.
boat
This will not allow for any "abuse" that isn't currently available.
wonders
support
fartownik
Supporting for hold sliders.
deadbeat

fartownik wrote:

Supporting for hold sliders.
t/44182
kosiga
good thought.

but it should be discussed carefully. They have much possibility to cause a trouble. :(

Hinsvar wrote:

Supporting this. This way, there will be more flexibility regarding the usage of slider velocities.

I personally think 0.10-10.00x is pretty extreme for the standard mode (if compared with osu!mania), but 0.25-2.00x feels kinda limited too. I'm okay with this.

And there shouldn't be any worry about someone abusing this (read: Changing slider velocities randomly with reasons like "just because") in a map that's going for ranking or approval; as long as there are modders and BAT members around, the abuse will eventually be pointed out.
I agree with Hinsvar
Topic Starter
Kodora

Hinsvar wrote:

Supporting this. This way, there will be more flexibility regarding the usage of slider velocities.

I personally think 0.10-10.00x is pretty extreme for the standard mode (if compared with osu!mania), but 0.25-2.00x feels kinda limited too. I'm okay with this.

And there shouldn't be any worry about someone abusing this (read: Changing slider velocities randomly with reasons like "just because") in a map that's going for ranking or approval; as long as there are modders and BAT members around, the abuse will eventually be pointed out.
I get your point.

Problem is SV changes over x5.0 is really barely usable at all but i think they can be used as well in the future in rarely special cases.

As example, we currently have in editor other barely usable options (HP 10, OD10, 1/16 beat snap division etc) - having them isnt hurt at all but they can be used well in some special cases.

would be nice to have consistensy between osu!mania and osu!standart edit

Anyway lets wait for other opinions.
Darksonic
I'm supporting.
RLC
although I have no votes, I definitely support this.
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