I opened this thread because I notice some wordings in the ranking criteria of taiko diffs about 1/4 finishes could be refined

Sorry for making one more thread about 1/4 finish again ( The last one is here ), but after seeing a potential unranking problem stated here, I think it's necessary to be further discussed here

Let me post the current wordings about 1/4 finish first :

Taiko Ranking Criteria - Rules wrote:

Finish notes
Finish notes must not be in the middle or at the beginning in a 1/4 or above stream. At the end, finish streams may be allowed if there is a reasonable sound for it and follow one of the following patterns: xxxxxxxxO, xxxxooooX, xxooxxooX

What I want to focus is about the "and follow one of the following patterns" part
From the wordings, it's stating that 1/4 finishes are banned unless the pattern is one of the 3 stated above
This doesn't really make sense for me, because this is just too misleading and unreasonably restricting
I'll explain more below.

1. There are just so many possible combinations of hitsounds for a stream.

eg : The rule says xxxxooooX is allowed, but patterns like a) xxooooooX, b) xxooooxxO, c) ooooxxxxO d) xxxxxxxxxxO are not.
a~d are all very similar to xxxxooooX since they are all composed of d / k with even numbers, so why do we have to ban them ?
c is even just the opposite of it
d is just longer but with same structure
Limiting 1/4 finishes to be exactly same as those 3 patterns doesn't make sense for me

2. I would really like to question about why it is not allowed to add 1/4 finishes for streams ending with xoX / oxO.

Patterns like e) xxxxooxoX are banned because it doesn't belong to one of the 3 patterns
As mentioned in the previous taiko ranking criteria adjustment, Makar proposed that "finish streams may be allowed if there is a reasonable sound for it and have at least 2 notes before it that are the opposite note"

To be honest, I can't find any valid reasons supporting why it has to be "at least 2 notes before it that are the opposite note"
No matter if the players are using kddk, ddkk or kkdd config, they do not have to move a certain finger at 1/8 speed to hit the 1/4 finish properly, since they can just use 2 another fingers to hit the finish at dkD / kdK

If anyone thinks I missed something here, please do reply. We need more opinions on this for sure.

Based on the above reasons, I'd like to propose the following changes to the rule :

1/4 finishes should be allowed on the end of any ( odd-numbered ) stream, as long as the ending of the stream is not dD / kK.

The bracketed "odd-number" is something I'm not sure about for now. Needs some more discussion on that, I think
Any thoughts ?

I personally don't like this being a rule (a guideline for slower BPMs is more appropriate), but your edit to it cleans a few things up. I'll support this I guess.

Strongly agree all aabc said.

There are just so many possible combinations of hitsounds for a stream.

Now we can see the wordings is ONLY 3 patterns, we should better to discuss more about the patterns.

For example, we can discuss more about what patterns are not allowed to make this rule more clearly as

now we will misunderstand this rule easily (only 3 patterns are allowed).

Limiting 1/4 finishes to be exactly same as those 3 patterns doesn't make sense for me

aabc's edit that is in bold works great. The odd-numbered part could be replaced with something along the lines of this...

1/4 finishes should be allowed on the end of any stream that ends on-beat/on a barline, as long as the ending of the stream is not dD or kK

1) A proper wording may be needed.

2) Please refer to the previous discussion where no conclusion can be made.

Suggested wording as a replacement for the current rule:

Finish notes
Finish notes must not be in the middle or at the beginning in a 1/4 or above stream. At the end, finish streams may be allowed if there is a reasonable sound for it, where the stream is at least 5 notes long and end with ddddK, ddkkD or its reverse (i.e. kkkkD, kkddK)

Well, due to reason like this p/2500409 I have to agree with aabc's statement. This time the request of changing the rule is more justified as in the previous discussion which contained also middle finishers. Because of this, I wouldn't see a problem to change it in a way, chris said it:

wmfchris wrote:

Finish notes
Finish notes must not be in the middle or at the beginning in a 1/4 or above stream. At the end, finish streams may be allowed if there is a reasonable sound for it, where the stream is at least 5 notes long and end with ddddK, ddkkD or its reverse (i.e. kkkkD, kkddK)

Finishers would be still disallowed in middle and beginning of streams, which is good.
Also more patterns could be combined in this way and could be in case of unfitting the song, easily modded away due to may be allowed if there is a reasonable sound for it.
Only thing I'm really unsure about is the "where the stream is at least 5 notes long". In my opinion a 5-plet pattern isn't a stream at all. Also this can be way easy abused in certain maps, so I suggesting this one:

Finish notes
Finish notes must not be in the middle or at the beginning in a 1/4 or above stream. At the end, finish streams may be allowed if there is a reasonable sound for it, where the stream is at least 8 notes long and end with ...dK, ...kD..

Why does it have to be a certain length? just say that if 2 or more notes are within 1/4 of each other the last one can only be a finish if it's a different color than the second to last one. And it fits with the music.

Finish notes
Finish notes must not be in the middle or at the beginning in a 1/4 or above stream. At the end, finish streams may be allowed if there is a reasonable sound for it, Finisher notes at the end of a stream must have the opposite color of the previous note

Yes, no, maybe? Let's end this weird limitations.

Agreed with loctav's wording, but I think you should include 2 or more notes instead of "stream".

I'm fine with what Loctav said.

Loctav wrote:

Finish notes
Finish notes must not be in the middle or at the beginning in a 1/4 or above stream. At the end, finish streams may be allowed if there is a reasonable sound for it, Finisher notes at the end of a stream must have the opposite color of the previous note

looks about right. Do we have any guidelines that should follow with this? So that mappers know what to expect when BATs check their map for other circumstances?

No we don't.

Amending this. I never knew why we ever limited this. We have a modding process for possible abuse - and profenient BATs, that detect this by now.

Quoting what Sakura said: "Stream" seems to be a bit vague.

Will ooX or xO be allowable? They're not exactly "streams".

NoHitter wrote:

Quoting what Sakura said: "Stream" seems to be a bit vague.

Will ooX or xO be allowable? They're not exactly "streams".

They are streams. Just short ones. I linked the wiki article about "streams" within the ranking criteria