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Allowance for specifying live performances in title

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Topic Starter
Apo11o
For live performances of a song, the title may include a `(Live Ver.)` marker. Relevant details to the performance should be put in the beatmap description and tags, such as the date and location.

i don't believe that using the description for this is suitable since live recordings of song will often feature major compositional and structural differences to studio versions. official releases of live versions can also have the same metadata as those studio versions which is unideal tbh
AnimeStyle
Considering metadata has to be adjusted when the song got minimally changed (Cut/Extended/TV Size), it would just be consistent with current rules to also mark live recordings.
I'm assuming no one has bothered to talk about this yet, because live recordings aren't something you see often; doesn't mean it won't be important later down the line.
SaltyLucario
honestly a good idea
example that comes to mind immediately are pishis hall of the mountain king maps, where one is live performance and other is album ver, and like you said, difference is rly big
Yahuri
how about changing the format to "(Event/Location/Date) Live Ver." so its consistent with other version markers? (event/location/date markers can be excluded on a case by case basis)
Hivie
some form of standardization for live performances would be very appreciated when needed
+1
Topic Starter
Apo11o

Yahuri wrote:

how about changing the format to "(Event/Location/Date) Live Ver." so its consistent with other version markers? (event/location/date markers can be excluded on a case by case basis)
Good idea
AJT

Yahuri wrote:

how about changing the format to "(Event/Location/Date) Live Ver." so its consistent with other version markers? (event/location/date markers can be excluded on a case by case basis)
+1
Nao Tomori
i dont think that it would look good to have all that detail in the title, think it should be left to (live) and let the detail stay in the description
AJT

Nao Tomori wrote:

i dont think that it would look good to have all that detail in the title, think it should be left to (live) and let the detail stay in the description
to segway off of this, at least if this were the case there would still be more clarity than now: (Live Ver.) alone does bring up the possibility of there being different live versions with the same meta, however:
i) there'd still be more clarity than currently
ii) they'd still be very descriptive of the song, and by far the most useful information here would be that it's live and hence not the studio recording, rather than where it was live at
iii) hopefully anyone who wants to find one specific performance can search it by tags if it's added to the allowance that you should also add those to tags

so yeah could probably get behind this too, although I think either approach would be better than the current one
also not sure if you meant (Live) or (Live Ver.) but (Live) sounds kinda aes Tbh, dunno if it's feasible to implement like that tho cause of all the other similar-ish markers using ver
Topic Starter
Apo11o

Nao Tomori wrote:

i dont think that it would look good to have all that detail in the title, think it should be left to (live) and let the detail stay in the description
sure seems fair, changed

the current proposal is now:
For live performances of a song, the title may include a `(Live Ver.)` marker.
AnimeStyle
The proposal should include having to put the details into tags (date/place). Unsure whether event is needed.
Stixy

Apo11o wrote:

Nao Tomori wrote:

i dont think that it would look good to have all that detail in the title, think it should be left to (live) and let the detail stay in the description
sure seems fair, changed

the current proposal is now:
For live performances of a song, the title may include a `(Live Ver.)` marker.
sounds pretty good to me. agree with adding maybe some details regarding the date/place in the description or tags to make it clear.
Topic Starter
Apo11o
added details, wording could probably be modified but this should be close! the proposal is now as follows:

For live performances of a song, the title may include a `(Live Ver.)` marker. Relevant details to the performance should be put in the beatmap description and tags, such as the date and location.
Ryu Sei
Optionally, how about add the event name on the source, just like how BMS song's metadata now? For example, we have a band that is named "Never Give Upper" an they have an event with name "Never Givin' You Up 2021", so the source should be that. Even in one case the band performed world tour during that event (i.e having same event name across location), the relevant location/date details can be put in the beatmap tags.
Topic Starter
Apo11o

Ryu Sei wrote:

Optionally, how about add the event name on the source, just like how BMS song's metadata now? For example, we have a band that is named "Never Give Upper" an they have an event with name "Never Givin' You Up 2021", so the source should be that. Even in one case the band performed world tour during that event (i.e having same event name across location), the relevant location/date details can be put in the beatmap tags.
Not specific enough for the intended purpose of a live performance - an event may feature live performances or spawn studio tracks, furthermore there will be live performances not tied to any event.
Ephemeral
please, no more "ver." nonsense. (Live) should be enough
Ryu Sei
I think it's to maintain consistency between the standardization. By that, some live performance songs are sometimes longer compared to what is it on album, thus it's extended. If we have standardization for shortened songs, why not for extended (including but not limited to live performance) too?

This leaves me wondering, what about songs that doesn't have album/studio/single version, instead it's only available in live performance?
AJT
I agree with the main post, I also think (ver.) makes sense with how the other markers are standardised but either is fine to me
clayton
any reason it's proposed as a guideline and not a rule like the other markers?
Topic Starter
Apo11o
there are some recordings which are by definition live performances that I personally wouldn't fault someone for not wanting to put "(Live Ver.)" on. take various songs on the beatles album let it be such as dig a pony - these were recorded as part of a rooftop concert and placed on the album amongst tracks are were recorded in the studio (there isn't a released studio ver. of this song in particular AFAIK)... live ver in the title doesn't seem particularly useful or even Good for me there, and i imagine there'll be countless other little caveats that are better solved by putting this as an allowance rather than nailing every possible Exception
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