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After some discussion in this thread t/138148. TV Size will no longer get special treatment. If you're wondering why I say TV Size get special treatment, read the first few pages here t/87323.

So the rule is:

Do not alter the song's title. This includes adding any marker to describe the cut of the song such as "Short Ver.", "TV Size" and so forth unless those markers are part of the official song title as listed by a reputable source.

Also on this thread t/87323. You cannot add a extension unless you find a source that explicitly show this. This means, even if the cut is official, is from a official pv, etc. and you can verify that there is a full version. You still cannot add a extension unless you find clear proof to do so. You may say, the official source will normally label this, but there are problems with this which I will expand more later.

Now, the rule seems to have been added for two reasons, if there are more, let me know.
1) Consistency
2) Aesthetic

Aesthetic is completely subjective so I will only expand on the first point consistency and if you do find length extensions ugly, please come up with a suggestion which you find aesthetically appeasing and keep the positives of previous rule (I will highlight them later). But first;

Why is stuff like TV Size, Short Ver., Full Ver. used anyways?

When you have an album, and there are two mp3 of the same songs in this album. One is the original version and one is a shorten version. If you name them the same way, it would be confusing right? So that's why, there is an extension added to distinguish them. We have the same cases in osu!. Imagine osu! as this big album, some people map a shorten version and some people may map the original version. So a logical solution here would be to add an extension right?

Also regarding full version. I do not remember when, but we had a discussion regarding using (Full Ver.) in titles and we have a unspoken rule not to add a extension to show that it's the original unmodified version. Now you see where I'm going with this? Since I cannot find a source to add an extension, I'm forced to label it as if the mp3 I'm mapping is the original unmodified version when it's the shortened version. Also some album source do put (Full Ver.), according to this rule, I guess I should add it then? A really good example for when the longer version should be labeled is for game music, a example is DJMAX "Extended Ver." http://vgmdb.net/album/33882

The Problems

1) Defining "Official Sources"

So what is considered a official source? An album is normally considered one, the official website as well. But what about the video? I have yet to see a video use such extension yet in the official website or in an album, it is used. Now, why is that? As I do not made those videos, I can only speculate, but here's the problem. We have two sources, an album and a video, both are (or should be) considered official since they are both featured on the official website. Which one should be used? Which one is preferred?

And how about stuff like a official tweet saying, "Hey everyone, check out this short preview of our newest song here." Does this qualify as an official source to use an extension or not? What if I send a email asking whether this song was a shorten version and my reply was yes. Does this mean I can add a extension? Or I took a mp3 from the PV and it's a shorten version, I guess (PV Ver.) then? It is the mp3 that was officially edited for the PV after all.

If we have varying opinions on what is official and what should be preferred, then you can see how this rule is far from perfect at this point.

2a) Inconsistency across one group

Take a look at this OST http://vgmdb.net/album/33448, no label for shorten mp3. Single http://vgmdb.net/album/34184 shorten mp3 and original mp3 are labeled. http://www.suruga-ya.jp/database/pics/g ... 057182.jpg, slightly low res, but original mp3 no label, shorten mp3 is labeled differently (short chorus ver) => (short ver)

So basically, I have these options. Shorten mp3: 1) Don't add anything 2) Add short chorus ver 3) Add short ver. Original mp3: 1) Don't add anything 2) Add full chorus ver. So how do I decide? They are all from official sources, the cd (physical source) and official website (digital source). If you are saying, mapper can use whatever, then bam, there goes the consistency because everyone will have different opinions on what should be used. A rule saying "Hey your song is a shorten version? Use these extensions: [...] [...]" is much more painless and is much more consistent. You also do not need to do any digging around or know the song "well"- more on that later.

This is just one example, I've seen stuff like this happen several times. A download link on the official website with no extension and the game have this extension, vice versa, file names, even the styling of video and official website don't match sometimes (Read first page of this thread t/75584)

2b) Inconsistency across all groups

Some companies use extensions, some company don't, some have a different way to label it (e.g. half chorus ver, short ver, what about short edit, or sometime a song is just label as [short] or [full]), etc. If we want to have consistency, then we'll have to come up with our own rules. Following something that is not consistent make stuff more inconsistent.

2c) Styling

Let's say I see a song label as "song name (short ver)" [short and ver are not capitalized, and no dot at end of ver], can I capitalize the words and add the dot or not? Or a better example, a song use (TV Edit), can I use (TV Size) to be like the rest of the maps? The wording of the rule seems to suggest I should follow the official source to the line. Now if we decide this case by case, it'll simply make stuff more inconsistent, some mappers may choose to follow the official title perfectly, some may want to edit it. A simple rule to say what should be used is much more simple

3) Effort to find information

This is the steps I take

The first three steps are normally easy, but then from there on, it gets difficult especially when the only track listing is in the game e.g. Hanakoi (花咲く乙女と恋の魔導書) or えれくと！ Step 5 is definitely not applicable to everyone.

It definitely can take a very long time to check information on some songs. While I am disappointed to see some maps being asked to remove (Short Ver.) when I see this information listed within the official website or in vgmdb, you also need to know where to look. That in itself is another problem. Some mappers don't even put in the effort or perhaps misunderstand the rule t/89198, the thread title contains nothing about official source until you click it. Perhaps edit the title of thread to Song Titles: Avoid using TV Size, Short, Full, Cut Ver. unless in official source. Basically, the rule comes to how much effort you're willing to put and how good you are at finding information on songs which is far from ideal.

More examples: Page 2 of t/138148. If you want to see how much effort it can take, try finding information on the songs I listed there, some are easy, some I couldn't find anything.

Lastly, there is a grey area on newer songs. I cannot verify the source of some songs simply because the proper sources are not released yet and a beatmap shouldn't be hold back from ranking simply because of title.

Conclusion

The rule was introduced to help makes thing more consistent, but instead, it just adds more elements that makes it even more inconsistent.
Key problems are:

1. Unclear or subjective definition of an official source.
2. Conflicting official sources (one source list a extension, one source doesn't)
3. Extension usage varies by companies/groups
4. Knowing how to verify extension usage
5. Effort required to do so
6. Time which can be better used elsewhere
7. Newer songs where sources are still lacking in information or not yet released
8. Lot of case by case scenarios, when this could have all been easily avoided by a simple rule.

The current effect of this rule (one year after)

1. Some maps that have an extension in the official source is ranked without [=> see more examples]
2. More extensions variation are used or will be in the future e.g. Game Size, Movie Edit, Half Chorus Ver. (whether this is negative or positive is up to you)
3. Harder to distinct map of varying length of the same song. You may say, "all you need to do is click on the beatmap information page", but I can say the same with album. All I need to do is open the mp3, but a simple extension to distinguish is a much more logical solution isn't it? And it was like this before, why downgrade it?
4. Removal of unofficial length filter (when you search short or tv size, you'll usually find short songs, there is currently no way to filter map by length on the website listing)
5. If you care about proper labeling, you have to put in the effort. If not, just wait for a BAT to complain or let someone else to do it for you (being lazy is rewarded)
6. Subjective aesthetic improvements

(4.) can be alleviate by adding tags e.g. short version to tags of all shorten mp3 until a length filter is added, but at this point in time, it's a still a positive feature of using an extension.

Before this rule

1. Maps were more consistency labeled (if you see a song that isn't shorten label as such, please list it here, I am aware of songs that are cut which are not label as so)
2. Covers the most important cases regarding length. In most cases, people map a official shorten version or the original songs, and then someone might decide to map longer or shorter version respectively later on. I have not seen a song where say, 30sec in one version, 1min is map in one version, 1min30... etc. If there is one, let me know. This data represent ranked map only.
3. Very simple to follow, map short anime song, (TV Size), short game song, (Short Ver.), your own cut (Cut Ver.) and full version, don't put anything. Under currently rule, I can argue in favor of putting Full Ver. (see previous examples) if I want and this is not a positive thing as the deciding factor here is personal preferences.
4. Unofficial length filter and easier distinction of song length in website beatmap listing and in game listing (e.g. one songs, two version, a short and original, extension help to distinguish them).

The rule seems good on paper, following "official sources" seems nice, but after researching so many songs, I'm seeing countless issues here and I honestly can't see anything positive from this rule. If you have been researching for information on songs, let me know your experience.

Now what do I want to see change?

a. Removal/revert back to previous rule.
b. Implementation of new features (website beatmap listing length filter: search for 1-2min songs, 3-4min songs etc.), and songs being marked in a more "aesthetically" appeasing and accurate way. With removal of length extension completely.
c. Others, discuss.

(b) is nice, but, I think other features should be work on first e.g. rework ranking system, osz2 (fix old metadata) etc. so (a) seems most logical here. I honestly cannot see a way to change the current rule while keeping the positive of the old rule and not make it overly complicated. The only real negative with the old rule is that some people find it ugly?( Really? Only this reason?) I doubt technical issues as length extension had been used for a long time and are still allowed (presuming you can find an official source to verify it).

Why makes a simple thing like title so complicate? (If you don't see why this is complicated, please read above again). Why make a BAT/mapper waste time verifying titles when he/she can use it to make the map even better, or focus on more important issues like the map itself? I understand why some mappers simply don't even bother with extensions unless someone show a source to do so because doing all this, does it improve the map? (Wow my map is amazing now that I have verify my title! ) The reason I care so much is that I find this a extremely stupid rule, if a rule is introduced, it should improve stuff not make it worse.

Fixed lot of grammars mistakes and reworded some stuff. Self note: 1) Unrank 2) Double standards 3) Lack of source

i think this is more an exercise in trite semantics than any legitimate concern, to be honest.

it's pretty simple and the official source is proliferated enough through websites like beatport, itunes, last.fm and so forth. "do not alter the song's title" is about as succinct as I think we can get with this, tbh.

finalizing as no change within 24 hours if no further input is given

You already flamed it, so you finalized it. Moving thread then.

What? Finalized within one post? Let there be more discussion atleast.

I have backup my points with real examples and give objective arguments, please list the pros of the current rule and back it up rather than the current reply.

I also would go this step by step since merchat made a lot of thoughts about it.. however, I still stay behind of my opinion: TV Size is used for Openings as long the original Title says that, Short Ver. is used for shorter Versions of a Song, Cut Ver. for songs which are cutted by the user. That means Songs which are longer for usually for having a cut within the song. I have named some correct examples.

Examples which have made it wrong:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/36858
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/39275
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/47302 (For whatever reasons the mapper as put (Short Ver.) instead of (TV Size) but maybe the title is calling like that..)

tl;dr we simply do need to search about the correct title of the Song. if we do that there should be no more problems about that.

Just to clarify some stuff
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/39031 - I'm certain this is a cut version, not short version and it's not labeled as either. There is already a TV Size, why would there be another shorten version?
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/36858 and https://osu.ppy.sh/s/39275 - (Cut Ver.) was used very recently, around the time this was posted honestly t/87323. I have never seen (Cut Ver.) used before. The beatmap you linked https://osu.ppy.sh/s/42311 is probably the first ranked beatmap to do it.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/47302 - This is an eroge/VN/game (check tags + personal knowledge) opening so (Short Ver.) was correct under the previous rule.

Regarding (Cut Ver.), I do not see why it's important to know whether the cut is official or not, in the end, it says the same thing; song is shorten. I do see it helping for this beatmap https://osu.ppy.sh/s/39031 and other beatmaps like it though, so I have no problem with it.

There are flaws with the system, I have mention quite a few in my posts, for one, three official sources suggesting three different titles for the same mp3. If this rule was implemented to make stuff more consistent, it isn't helping and this is just one problem.

Thank you though for your response Stefan.

Also please move thread back to the proper forum, discussions are just starting.

The previous "rule" was already ok and handled in cases where the label was completely wrong, tho I thought we'd already agree on which cases labeling song titles were accepted.

The new rule is only misleading people, it's true sometimes there's no oficial name for a song that is extracted from a PV or a video where the song is shortened, but this should be common sense if there's already another full/larger version of it. Why should the name for a shortened version be the same as the full version just because there's no X song (Y ver.) in the title of the video/source? This is just misleading.

Obviously this changes when there's an official release in an album and it contains the correct label, it may be (TV Size), (TV Edit), short ver., (Short Ver.), (Extract), whichever label they put, in this cases the rule should be enforced.

If we need to make a new thread to keep discussing this, then tell us and we'll do.

DakeDekaane wrote:

The previous "rule" was already ok and handled in cases where the label was completely wrong, tho I thought we'd already agree on which cases labeling song titles were accepted.

The new rule is only misleading people, it's true sometimes there's no oficial name for a song that is extracted from a PV or a video where the song is shortened, but this should be common sense if there's already another full/larger version of it. Why should the name for a shortened version be the same as the full version just because there's no X song (Y ver.) in the title of the video/source? This is just misleading.

Obviously this changes when there's an official release in an album and it contains the correct label, it may be (TV Size), (TV Edit), short ver., (Short Ver.), (Extract), whichever label they put, in this cases the rule should be enforced.

If we need to make a new thread to keep discussing this, then tell us and we'll do.

This.

I'll contact someone regarding moving this thread, but I'm pretty patient so I'll wait a week before doing anything. Maybe people are just busy.