Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. osu!
  3. Development
  4. Feature Requests

A new rating system

posted
Total Posts
107
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +52
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Ekaru
It's come up recently, so why not a poll?

See, there are a few issues with the current rating system. Those being:

1. It's unclear. This is the main issue. The only clear likes and dislikes are 10s and anything below a 5.
2. People have different perceptions of an out of 10 scale. Unlike, say, out of 5, or a 'like/dislike', out of 10 is really unclear. Some use 5 as average, some use 7. Some people only use 1 if they dislike a map, 10 if they like it. Speaking of which...
3. People bitch about 1s. 1s are going to happen no matter what, but people will whine about them. Why? Because 1s are generally unused.

D33d's idea is cool:

:)/:|/:(

Per difficulty per mapset. This seems to be the one most wanted if a change was to take place. :P

1. It's clear. It's clear even if you don't know English, assuming Like is green and Dislike is red, because, well, we all know if you like or dislike something, and those are the standard colors.
2. People have the same perceptions of like, dislike, and undecided. This is true.
3. You can't bitch about 1s. Heck, you can't even bitch about dislikes. Why? Because we all know that some people dislike a map, and dislikes are always used in this kind of system.

Oh, and the issue about not feeling bad to give a low rating. :P So... yeah...

Probably won't be implemented, but go ahead anyways and discuss.

EDIT: Updated proposed idea with what appears to be the most popular set-up.
Last edited by Ekaru , edited 5 times in total.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
Oh, the irony.

Your poll, make it three options.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Ekaru
Done. Happy? ;_;
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi
i vote no because it's just going to be

dislike 1-4, undecided 5, like 6-10.

it gives us less options to choose from how we feel about a map. also if your map is getting an excessive (SP?) amount of 1's, maybe its time to change mapping style or song style. i doubt that theres that many trolls that votes 1 on maps.
Starrodkirby86
osu! Alumni
3,739 posts
Here since the beginning
Starrodkirby86
I don't really feel any iffiness towards the rating system at the moment. I'm supposedly indifferent I guess.

But looking at the Like/Dislike/Undecided thing I'm pretty much against. This can easily make a map that might even seem great or fun go into the dump instantly because of Dislike. There's less choices, and each one makes already a grave impact...I guess...:/
Gens
osu! Alumni
3,485 posts
Joined August 2008
Gens
What would happen to Mapper Rankings then? Will all the votes be deleted? D:
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
I think it should be Neutral instead of undecided.

And YES I support this.
Zerostarry
osu! Alumni
1,563 posts
Here since the beginning
Zerostarry

Gens wrote:

What would happen to Mapper Rankings then? Will all the votes be deleted? D:
Mapper's Ranking is bullshit anyways. A person with 1 ranked map rated 8.5+ would be up top, where as a much more experienced mapper with 20 maps is likely to fall much much lower.
Hanyuu
2,223 posts
Joined February 2009
Hanyuu
you dont understand the reason of rating. you dont rate a map on how you like it or how you dislike it
ratings 1-4 are generally not needed because a ranked map should be good

i pick "maybe" here because i think a new system is not very needed
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Ekaru

Hanyuu wrote:

you dont understand the reason of rating. you dont rate a map on how you like it or how you dislike it
ratings 1-4 are generally not needed because a ranked map should be good

i pick "maybe" here because i think a new system is not very needed
I got a poor map ranked before (Heatman). :D

People generally rate based on how much they like it. If they loved it, 10. They despise it to death, 1-4. A map can be technically correct but still boring as hell. We don't exactly rate objectively. :P If I liked it, I rate it high. If I dislike it, I rate it low. If I consider it about average, I give it about a 7. That's how people rate, believe it or not. NOTHING will change that!
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Ekaru wrote:

People generally rate based on how much they like it. If they loved it, 10. They despise it to death, 1-4. A map can be technically correct but still boring as hell. We don't exactly rate objectively. :P If I liked it, I rate it high. If I dislike it, I rate it low. If I consider it about average, I give it about a 7. That's how people rate, believe it or not. NOTHING will change that!
Except a new rating system.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
I like to be able to make a distinction between a 10 and an 8, both of which would fall under (my) "like" category. Likewise with a 1 and a 4.
Jarby
2,963 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby
I only give ratings to ranked maps that are outstandingly good or bad in the first place, so I would prefer a system like what you described.
Gemi
osu! Alumni
685 posts
Joined March 2008
Gemi
I would like a "like"/"dislike"/"neutral" rating system.

Yes, this would mean that we'd have to wipe the ratings for all songs, but in the long run I see this as a beneficial thing. And even though all old maps would lose their ratings, on the positive side this would give users the chance to go back and change their votes on those maps which they might have voted badly on before. And since the database can now store who voted what people could then change their votes on all maps if they change their mind later on.


Edit: Also at the same time ratings should be made map specific, not song specific. I remember songs where I absolutely hated one map while I loved another, and I just can't make a vote that makes any justice to both.
RemmyX25
osu! Alumni
3,087 posts
Here since the beginning
RemmyX25
I really dont feel the need for a rating system like you describe. If you're so upset over a few ones, then you're just setting yourself up for more "Dislikes," seeing as that pretty much covers 1-4. Also, a ranked map can still receive a 1 if the map just isnt fun, but follows all of the rankability guidelines. (At least, thats what i would have given it.) But, if a map really stands out to me, I would rather give it a 10 instead of a 9.


Now, if I were to suggest a change, a per difficutly rating system would be nice.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Ekaru

RemmyX25 wrote:

I really dont feel the need for a rating system like you describe. If you're so upset over a few ones, then you're just setting yourself up for more "Dislikes," seeing as that pretty much covers 1-4. Also, a ranked map can still receive a 1 if the map just isnt fun, but follows all of the rankability guidelines. (At least, thats what i would have given it.) But, if a map really stands out to me, I would rather give it a 10 instead of a 9.


Now, if I were to suggest a change, a per difficutly rating system would be nice.
That still doesn't address the reasons about how people have different perceptions of the 1-10 scale, and how it's currently unclear how many people liked or disliked a map, which is why I want a new system. I don't care about 1s. ;P

Now address those points please.
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann
The more I think about it, the more I completely disagree with this. Making it so "black and white" just decreases the amount of precision people have with regard to rating maps.

And there's nothing particularly unclear about the current system.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Ekaru
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

LuigiHann wrote:

And there's nothing particularly unclear about the current system.
Not as unclear as much as unuseful. (That sentence was unclear.)

As Ekaru said, people have different perceptions of rating. Some may vote 5 for okay maps and others may vote 8 or 7. With a three-choice system, the options are more distinguishable (more clear, really), more standardized, and give a clearer picture of how many people like or dislike a map.

JarJarJacob wrote:

I only give ratings to ranked maps that are outstandingly good or bad in the first place, so I would prefer a system like what you described.
I do the same thing. I only vote for really good and really bad maps.

Thus, the "undecided" choice would be the default. That is, you must vote after you play and complete a map.

Echo wrote:

I like to be able to make a distinction between a 10 and an 8, both of which would fall under (my) "like" category. Likewise with a 1 and a 4.
Why not favourite a map you really enjoy?

And of course, I would prefer a per-difficulty setting. This will mean you can see, as a mapper, your strengths and weaknesses in mapping different difficulties and different styles, and those of other mappers. Rating is both an ego boost and a way to learn, IMO, and although 1's get me raged, I can see the public doesn't like that style of map in general and I'll either change the song or change the style (or both).
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
I agree with a 3 or 5 choice system and also having different ratings per difficulty. =)
qlum
481 posts
Joined October 2008
qlum

Derekku Chan wrote:

I agree with a 5 choice system and also having different ratings per difficulty. =)
and also the ability to rate when you are back in song select it happens very often that I realise I forgot to vote when I'm back there
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

qlum wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

I agree with a 5 choice system and also having different ratings per difficulty. =)
and also the ability to rate when you are back in song select it happens very often that I realise I forgot to vote when I'm back there
Hopefully this will be enabled only after you've played the song through (ranked) at least once.
Gemi
osu! Alumni
685 posts
Joined March 2008
Gemi
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi

Gemi wrote:

Oh yes there is. Even from the comments in this topic alone you can see how differently different people use the voting system.
so what would change anything by implementing less options? you are just taking away peoples freedom to vote how they feel like.

The amount of mature people outnumber "trolls" and if you are getting bad votes on your map then guess what, maybe someone is actually telling you your maps aren't that good and you should change style or songs choices.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi
here ill give you a meaning

strongly dislike | 1-2
dislike | 3-4
neutral | 5
like | 6-8
strongly like 9-10

yes i know, not many people knows this but it's THAT simple.

ill say it again in bold. if mappers are upset about getting 1's on their maps, it's time to change style.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo

strager wrote:

Rule number one (or maybe not one) of UI design: Don't make the user think.
You need to think when you're rating a map. That's the whole point of a rating?

I want at least 5 options like Gabi suggested.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Rule number one (or maybe not one) of UI design: Don't make the user think.
You need to think when you're rating a map. That's the whole point of a rating?

I want at least 5 options like Gabi suggested.
I was pointing out the flaw in a numbered system. "If I like it, what should I rate? But what if I REALLY like it? But what if I like it more than this one but less than this one? ARG!"

That's how I feel when voting sometimes, and I just don't vote in that case.
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann
How about a nice graphic overlay?

(thumbs down)          (thumbs up)
  BAD |   MEH   |   OKAY  |  GOOD
 *  *  | *  *  * | *  *  * |  *  *

Man, it probably would have been easier to photoshop that than to type it
CheeseWarlock
osu! Alumni
1,185 posts
Joined May 2008
CheeseWarlock
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

CheeseWarlock wrote:

I think LH is onto something. Though I think of "okay" and "meh" to be pretty much the same thing. Bad-okay-good-great?
But what if someone wants to rate a map "really bad"? ;)

jk

There shouldn't be many OH GOD HORRIBLE maps, so your four choices sound fine.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Ekaru
I do say this would be the best, most agreeable option, by reading this thread:

Strongly Like | Like | Neutral | Dislike | Strongly Dislike

Well, I'm not sure which side should be "Agree". *shrugs* Then, you have it per a difficulty.

Sorry, but Luigi's idea of a graphical overlay to the 10 star system (clarification? That's what it appears to be, judging by the stars he has underneath the words) wouldn't do much. It might even make it worse. :P Right now, around 8 is average. If the average was lower, then maybe his idea would work. But currently? It wouldn't change any of the problems. Looking at the "bad", it might even *encourage* 1s and 2s. Right now, "bads" are often 4s, 5s, and 6s. 7 is 'eh...'. It's just how the scale has mutated on osu!. Which is part of the problem.

Mappers expect super high ratings on their maps. If they get below an 8, they think people hate their maps. Or many mappers do, at least. I don't think that myself. :P

Judging by the votes, I say this should be brought up at the next community meeting. Then we could have a "for real" vote, since this was just on whether we (AKA peppy) should consider it, and we have a lot of "yes"s compared to "no"s and "maybe"s. So we could discuss it more (AKA peppy could think about it more) at the next community meeting, assuming we have one. This would probably be the biggest topic there... That, and peppy's vacation. TELL US MORE DANG IT ><;
Hanyuu
2,223 posts
Joined February 2009
Hanyuu
instead of like not like etc etc why not a rating going from bad to good - i think this rating is more neutral and more orientated on the beatmap and not personal preference

also maybe a notification to rate the map on the map itself. and not how a player like it. of course if there is a hard map a not so good player will have problems with a hard beatmap and will maybe not like it (rate it bad - but the map maybe is not bad)

But i dont think this system can be used in practical! people will still rate a beatmap on their on feeling.... if the player has a problem play this beatmap, maybe get angry and sad trying to play it he maybe rate it bad.
Last edited by Hanyuu , edited 2 times in total.
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann

Hanyuu wrote:

instead of like not like etc etc why not a rating going from bad to good - i think this rating is more neutral and more orientated on the beatmap and not personal preference
It is supposed to be personal preference, though.
Hanyuu
2,223 posts
Joined February 2009
Hanyuu
But this is the problem players complain (sorry example Mogsworth recent beatmap). This map start this discussion because it is a hard map to play and Mogsworth complain about people rate it 1 but it is a good map but very hard to do.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Ekaru
Easy is easy, they can just play that. Not being able to do Crazy means you aren't that skilled yet and should play an easier difficulty.

Anyways, ratings are how much you *like* it. That's the only way we can judge it. Seriously. osu! isn't full of professional critics, it's full of people who vote by their feelings. If they think it's a good map, they give it a high rating. If they think it's a bad map, they give it a low rating. Also, the song is part of the map. Just to clarify that. So if you pick songs like I do, don't expect high ratings. ;) I don't expect high ratings, and I've been just fine, just fine.

About the only way for us to determine how good it is is how much fun we had, so yeah. We just play and rate, we don't look through the map and determine what rating it should get.
Hanyuu
2,223 posts
Joined February 2009
Hanyuu

Ekaru wrote:

Easy is easy, they can just play that. Not being able to do Crazy means you aren't that skilled yet and should play an easier difficulty.

Anyways, ratings are how much you *like* it. That's the only way we can judge it. Seriously. osu! isn't full of professional critics, it's full of people who vote by their feelings. If they think it's a good map, they give it a high rating. If they think it's a bad map, they give it a low rating. Also, the song is part of the map. Just to clarify that. So if you pick songs like I do, don't expect high ratings. ;) I don't expect high ratings, and I've been just fine, just fine.

About the only way for us to determine how good it is is how much fun we had, so yeah. We just play and rate, we don't look through the map and determine what rating it should get.
yes you correct me and you have my thought but i think this is the reason a better or new rating is not possible in practice
Ryuukun
476 posts
Joined December 2008
Ryuukun
i read the trough the thread and i'm kinda split.
on one hand, our system is really unstable.
on the other hand, the suggested 3 vote system wouldn't be accurate enough.
And a 5 vote system would be the same again.
4 vote system sounds the most reasonable.

Actually i don't give a crap about votings.
I mean, ranked maps are ranked maps right?

If i were to agree to a few ideas here i'd
choose LuigiHann's

LuigiHann wrote:

(thumbs down)          (thumbs up)
  BAD |   MEH   |   OKAY  |  GOOD
 *  *  | *  *  * | *  *  * |  *  *
idea.
The idea to revote later,
and the idea to rate every diff seperatly
and make a overall rating out of those ratings.

+ ingame comment system please. (max 50 letters)
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
You like writing a poem for your posts?

Ryuukun wrote:

idea.
The idea to revote later
This has been suggested before. I think it was declined for technical reason? Unsure.

Ryuukun wrote:

+ ingame comment system please. (max 50 letters)
Use the beatmap's thread. If you are stressing in-game, there's been a feature request on that, too.
Gemi
osu! Alumni
685 posts
Joined March 2008
Gemi

strager wrote:

Ryuukun wrote:

idea.
The idea to revote later
This has been suggested before. I think it was declined for technical reason? Unsure.
This was not possible, because with old votes it was not recorded who voted what, so you can't change your vote. If a new system is made, then all votes need to be reset and this feature can also be added at the same time.
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann
I don't see why votes would need to be reset, the current average could just be ported over. And especially if we switched from a 10-star system to something that's essentially a 5-star system, all specific votes (at least, votes made since the rating spread was implemented) could just be ported over.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o

LuigiHann wrote:

I don't see why votes would need to be reset, the current average could just be ported over. And especially if we switched from a 10-star system to something that's essentially a 5-star system, all specific votes (at least, votes made since the rating spread was implemented) could just be ported over.
The problem is that seeing as the current rating system is so ambiguous, the ratings now are also ambiguous. Also since with a new system a 7 rating may be better than how it is now, newer maps will inherently have lower ratings than the maps before this system is implemented.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Ekaru
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Atmey
415 posts
Joined October 2008
Atmey
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Skyripper
osu! Alumni
1,016 posts
Joined August 2008
Skyripper
I think the current rating system speaks its own flaws pretty well. Out of the hundreds of ranked beatmaps, I know at least half of those are ranked 8.0-8.9. In fact, 11/12 of my ranked beatmaps fall under this category =p.

That really shouldn't happen.
Sleep Powder
1,540 posts
Joined October 2008
Sleep Powder
I like the way it is now...
I rate it the 1 or 10 way most of the time when I'm lazy lol...
If the ratings were changed to your suggested method then beatmap ratings would be more dynamic and high high's and low low's ( bipolar ratings )
( a change rating thing might be good )
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 107