Official op/ed: TV Size
Official short ver: Short Ver.
Non-official short ver: Cut Ver.
This is what I think current rule is..
Official short ver: Short Ver.
Non-official short ver: Cut Ver.
This is what I think current rule is..
forum
[Rule] Allow use of (Short Ver.) for VN/game OP titles
posted
Total Posts
39
'TV Size' is a really weird label anyway. Was it created by osu! users or does it actually have origins outside of here? It would make more sense to say something like 'TV Length' or 'TV Edit'.
As far as i remember, yeah it's always been used for song versions that appear as op/ed.Mashley wrote:
'TV Size' is a really weird label anyway. Was it created by osu! users or does it actually have origins outside of here? It would make more sense to say something like 'TV Length' or 'TV Edit'.
Current rule is :popner wrote:
Official op/ed: TV Size
Official short ver: Short Ver.
Non-official short ver: Cut Ver.
This is what I think current rule is..
Not allowed to use > Short Ver., Cut Ver., and Full Ver.
Sadly
And this is how it should be.popner wrote:
Official op/ed: TV Size
Official short ver: Short Ver.
Non-official short ver: Cut Ver.
This is what I think current rule is..
But also, if something is different (such as using Short Version instead of Short Ver.) in the official title, then that should be used instead.
It really is sad that we are not allowed to use them, but I don't really get why there are still so many ranked Beatmaps using those x Ver. in the song name.Miya wrote:
Current rule is :popner wrote:
Official op/ed: TV Size
Official short ver: Short Ver.
Non-official short ver: Cut Ver.
This is what I think current rule is..
Not allowed to use > Short Ver., Cut Ver., and Full Ver.
Sadly
A lot of listings for anime OSTs have things likeMashley wrote:
'TV Size' is a really weird label anyway. Was it created by osu! users or does it actually have origins outside of here? It would make more sense to say something like 'TV Length' or 'TV Edit'.
Butter-Fly (TV Saizu)
And TV Saizu = TV Size. That's where it comes from.
Please do not ignore this topic, it may affect all the beatmaps in future. we need to conclude it asap within the following two : ban both "short ver" and "tv size" whatever how long the song it is, or keep both for non-cutted opening/ending.
I don't understand why it is not allowed to use them in the song title. I mean, if it's shortened by the mapper, the player should know about it and I don't see a problem with deleting the rule.
And like popner already said, it should really be like this:
And like popner already said, it should really be like this:
popner wrote:
Official op/ed: TV Size
Official short ver: Short Ver.
Non-official short ver: Cut Ver.
If the mapper edits the song in a notable way - by, say, cutting the song length or pumping the bass up to 11 to make me want to kill them - then they are free to add whatever they want to the title because it's their version of the song now.
@Kawayi Rika: On soundtracks they often have "Short Ver." or "TV Size" in the title of the cut version. There's sort of an industry standard to using "Short Ver." or "TV Size" in the title and as such, the ruling should simply be, "If it would qualify for 'Short Ver.' or 'TV Size' in the listing of your typical OST then feel free to put the correct term in the title."
@Kawayi Rika: On soundtracks they often have "Short Ver." or "TV Size" in the title of the cut version. There's sort of an industry standard to using "Short Ver." or "TV Size" in the title and as such, the ruling should simply be, "If it would qualify for 'Short Ver.' or 'TV Size' in the listing of your typical OST then feel free to put the correct term in the title."
So... what's going on here?
Current rule
1. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/97922
From [NSFW] http://hiyoko-soft.com/products/icommu/ ... nload.html. Click on one of the download mirrors, you can also see the mp3 name on the website include songname_short.mp3 http://puu.sh/3vWD1.png
2. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/99090
Game Size should theoretically be used
As you can see, there are already mistakes made with titles. Please finalize or make changes to the rule as it is currently not working as intended. I do not have the time to check every single song and verify whether short version or alternative should be used.
Also, should beatmaps follow the actual official title or change to a standard like "Short Ver."? I've seen some songs used "Short", "half chorus version" "Game Size," "Movie Edit," " PV Ver." Demo Ver." and Japanese/other languages of such words and some different styling like short not being capitalized, or no dot after "ver". As you can see, there are lot of different ways, so it's best to standardized them imo. We are already doing this with "TV Size" (variation of this include "TV Edit", "TV Cut"...)
To those who wants to check whether short version should be used.
As you can see, quite a bit of work is needed and some songs are seriously a pain to find information for. The third step is really not applicable for everyone since it require downloading & installing the game and you often have to finish the game to assess such features (100% save files help though).
I hope there'll be a change very soon or we'll get even more inconsistency in metadata with the vague wording of current rule.
Current rule
Please refrain from using title extensions on song titles unless it is in the real title.I decide to check some recently ranked visual novel beatmaps which are clearly short version.
1. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/97922
From [NSFW] http://hiyoko-soft.com/products/icommu/ ... nload.html. Click on one of the download mirrors, you can also see the mp3 name on the website include songname_short.mp3 http://puu.sh/3vWD1.png
2. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/99090
Game Size should theoretically be used
As you can see, there are already mistakes made with titles. Please finalize or make changes to the rule as it is currently not working as intended. I do not have the time to check every single song and verify whether short version or alternative should be used.
Also, should beatmaps follow the actual official title or change to a standard like "Short Ver."? I've seen some songs used "Short", "half chorus version" "Game Size," "Movie Edit," " PV Ver." Demo Ver." and Japanese/other languages of such words and some different styling like short not being capitalized, or no dot after "ver". As you can see, there are lot of different ways, so it's best to standardized them imo. We are already doing this with "TV Size" (variation of this include "TV Edit", "TV Cut"...)
To those who wants to check whether short version should be used.
SPOILER
1. Write the game name + vgmdb on google. For popular games, information should be really easy to find and verify. For less popular ones, more steps are needed. Remember that not all games contain OST or include a short version in their singles.
2. Check download section of the game website. A few games put a short preview of their songs (and hopefully label it properly). Sometime, you'll only find a video/pv. Check and make sure that the video description doesn't contain any mentioning of short ver. or variances.
3. If all else fail, the actual game may contain the information you need. A lot of games contain a music "memory" where you can relisten to the BGM, there is often the theme songs use in the game as well and they are normally properly labeled. I've seen some not properly labeled though.
http://puu.sh/3vXEM.jpg
(4). Show the BATs that there is a full version of the song and show that the mp3 is used in the official pv/opening movie/demo of the game. I still haven't got a clear answer on whether this is accepted for rankability or not.
2. Check download section of the game website. A few games put a short preview of their songs (and hopefully label it properly). Sometime, you'll only find a video/pv. Check and make sure that the video description doesn't contain any mentioning of short ver. or variances.
3. If all else fail, the actual game may contain the information you need. A lot of games contain a music "memory" where you can relisten to the BGM, there is often the theme songs use in the game as well and they are normally properly labeled. I've seen some not properly labeled though.
http://puu.sh/3vXEM.jpg
(4). Show the BATs that there is a full version of the song and show that the mp3 is used in the official pv/opening movie/demo of the game. I still haven't got a clear answer on whether this is accepted for rankability or not.
As you can see, quite a bit of work is needed and some songs are seriously a pain to find information for. The third step is really not applicable for everyone since it require downloading & installing the game and you often have to finish the game to assess such features (100% save files help though).
I hope there'll be a change very soon or we'll get even more inconsistency in metadata with the vague wording of current rule.
There is no room for argument here. Use the song's title. If you are using a shortened version, it most likely has a suffix stating that. Use the suffix from the official track listing, nothing else. Do not make up or add your own suffix.
The problem is that people are used to having the length of the song displayed in the title.
For example, a song like Kimi no Shiranai Monogatari has multiple maps, each of somewhat multiple length. If I were to download all of them, it would be inconvenient for me having to sift through the songs to find out which song is the shorter version or longer version.
It's similar to downloading the map. Having to click on the map info just to check the length is pretty inconvenient IMO.
Having the length shown in the title by the means of (short ver) is a way of making this information readily available.
For example, a song like Kimi no Shiranai Monogatari has multiple maps, each of somewhat multiple length. If I were to download all of them, it would be inconvenient for me having to sift through the songs to find out which song is the shorter version or longer version.
It's similar to downloading the map. Having to click on the map info just to check the length is pretty inconvenient IMO.
Having the length shown in the title by the means of (short ver) is a way of making this information readily available.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/君の知らない物語-supercell/dp/B002B5WVK4/ref=pd_cp_m_0
4. 君の知らない物語 -TV Edit-Come at me.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/10418 - Three min forty seconds
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48076 - Five min, thirty seconds
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48076 - Five min, thirty seconds
What if the shorten version of a song is not featured in any track listing, but only on the demo/pv movie? And there is a full version? Can short version or PV/Demo ver be used then?
Yes, the short version is named wrong (see my last post).NoHitter wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/10418 - Three min forty seconds
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48076 - Five min, thirty seconds
Example please @merchat7.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11086 - peppy this map is the TV Size one
The first map I posted earlier is neither TV Size nor Full version.
Essentially that song has three different cut lengths.
The first map I posted earlier is neither TV Size nor Full version.
Essentially that song has three different cut lengths.
SMEE's recent games, I only did a careful search on their latest one so sorry if I miss it somewhere.
ラブラブル ～Lover Able～ Opening Theme: 茶太- Crazy for you☆
OST contains only full version, website doesn't contain link to download the shorten mp3.
同棲ラブラブル Opening Theme: 柚木ちな - 描いてた夢
Same story
フレラバ ～Friend to Lover～ Opening Theme: 真里歌 - quantum jump
Album of full version link = http://vgmdb.net/album/40178
Cannot find a source for the shorten mp3, on their older games, I notice they have a mp3 link with Short Ver., for example
I'll try to find example from other groups/companies.
Edit: Here's a example of inconsistent labeling.
http://www.hook-net.jp/lovelyquest/download.htm
The OST, "sound quest" contains only short versions and as you can see, it's not labeled, although full version exist. Same with download link on website, no mentioning of short version.
The game tells a different story
So a general rule is better imo.
Edit 2: Flyable Heart + Fandisc opening themes
Hoshizora no Memoria + Fandisc opening themes
Hanasaku Otome to Koi no Grimoire opening theme *only verifiable in game.
Osananajimi wa Daitouryou ~My girlfriend is the President.~ Fandisc opening theme *Full version released two years later
Hope this is enough examples. The rate that this happens is fortunately not too often, most companies label their mp3s properly, but it's still a noticeable amount. The main issue is with games that are less popular and games where the shorten mp3 is only labeled in the game.
ラブラブル ～Lover Able～ Opening Theme: 茶太- Crazy for you☆
OST contains only full version, website doesn't contain link to download the shorten mp3.
同棲ラブラブル Opening Theme: 柚木ちな - 描いてた夢
Same story
フレラバ ～Friend to Lover～ Opening Theme: 真里歌 - quantum jump
Album of full version link = http://vgmdb.net/album/40178
Cannot find a source for the shorten mp3, on their older games, I notice they have a mp3 link with Short Ver., for example
I'll try to find example from other groups/companies.
Edit: Here's a example of inconsistent labeling.
http://www.hook-net.jp/lovelyquest/download.htm
The OST, "sound quest" contains only short versions and as you can see, it's not labeled, although full version exist. Same with download link on website, no mentioning of short version.
The game tells a different story
So a general rule is better imo.
Edit 2: Flyable Heart + Fandisc opening themes
Hoshizora no Memoria + Fandisc opening themes
Hanasaku Otome to Koi no Grimoire opening theme *only verifiable in game.
Osananajimi wa Daitouryou ~My girlfriend is the President.~ Fandisc opening theme *Full version released two years later
Hope this is enough examples. The rate that this happens is fortunately not too often, most companies label their mp3s properly, but it's still a noticeable amount. The main issue is with games that are less popular and games where the shorten mp3 is only labeled in the game.
You don't understand. You should copy the song title as the ARTIST HAS SPECIFIED IT. Do not add a suffix. If a "short version" doesn't exist then leave it alone. If determining which is longer is an issue, this shoul dbe resolved in another way - not by destroying the title.
Here're some problems I find with current rule
1.) Why is "TV Size" being kept? If this is not intentional, then please edit the post here and topic title t/89198. Some responses I get were because they are almost always properly labeled, but I already found cases where I can't find it or it's hidden somewhere.
Some examples where I cannot find a source clearly stating "TV Size" should be used.
So I really do not understand why TV Size is allowed and Short Ver. isn't. I've been putting a lot of links to show that Short Ver. is quite commonly used and not something made up by osu! mappers. While it isn't always used,TV Size isn't always used either so this is one point I truly do not get with current rule. So if this is kept, then I feel there should be a rule allowing usage of "Short Ver." for game and VN OPs.
2.) a. From my understanding from the original first post here t/87323&start=0. This is done for a more consistent metadata? Although it seems it has been changed to aesthetic reasons looking at the recent posts. Assuming this rule was implement for more consistency of title, here's a example of a problem.
- One company put out a short version mp3 for their game. They label it (Short Ver.), they release an album with the full version soon after.
- One company put out a short version mp3 for their game. They don't label it (Short Ver.), they release an album with the full version soon after.
Under current rule, one will put Short Ver., the other won't. Inconsistent. If we have the opportunity to make it consistent in osu!, why not do it?
My main point here is that we are following a standard that is not consistent, if we want a consistent metadata here, then we should come up with a general rule.
Also, I have already point out two recently ranked beatmap where short ver or variance should have been added, but wasn't so it seems the staffs need to be more educate on this or we can simplify the rule like above.
b. Now, if there is a dislike for adding a suffix, why not officially implementation a symbol on beatmap listing and maybe color code it? Like a green circle with a S for Short song 0:30 - 2:00 length. A blue circle with a N for "Normal" length for 2:00 - 3:30 length and 3:30+ a red circle with L for long. And for really long or Marathon, a purple circle with "M" for marathon.
It can be put on the top right above genre, language, ratings, etc. Some titles are really long so perhaps implement a ... so for example "Extremely long song n..." and when you scroll over, it reverts to default behavior and shows the full name. It seems most people would like to be able to distinguish song length so this solution seems like a nice compromise and there'll be no more need for suffix. If this is implemented, naturally, all beatmaps should no longer put any suffix for length. I am not sure about in game implementation though.
Hopes this clear some point up and show why I'm not fond of the current rule.
1.) Why is "TV Size" being kept? If this is not intentional, then please edit the post here and topic title t/89198. Some responses I get were because they are almost always properly labeled, but I already found cases where I can't find it or it's hidden somewhere.
Some examples where I cannot find a source clearly stating "TV Size" should be used.
- Sekirei TV anime season (and maybe season 2?) Opening Themes: I recently mod a beatmap and notice mp3 quality wasn't too good so I try to see if there is a "TV Size" released in any album, I couldn't find any. I skim through the website and didn't see a particular place mentioning "TV Size." Google shows only results from osu!, unofficial blog post or unofficial videos.
- Ore no Kanojo to Osananajimi ga Shuraba Sugiru Ending Theme: Since I wasn't too happy with how the quality of the mp3 I found was in comparison to the full version, I try to see if there was a higher quality "TV Size" in an album somewhere. For whatever reason, they only released a "TV Size" for the opening song and not the ending. So in the end, I cut the full version instead.
- Haiyore! Nyaruko-san Opening Theme (+ ending theme and season 2 songs?): One more random example. I'm not sure what the promotion video (OP Ver. Type A, etc.) are though.
So I really do not understand why TV Size is allowed and Short Ver. isn't. I've been putting a lot of links to show that Short Ver. is quite commonly used and not something made up by osu! mappers. While it isn't always used,TV Size isn't always used either so this is one point I truly do not get with current rule. So if this is kept, then I feel there should be a rule allowing usage of "Short Ver." for game and VN OPs.
2.) a. From my understanding from the original first post here t/87323&start=0. This is done for a more consistent metadata? Although it seems it has been changed to aesthetic reasons looking at the recent posts. Assuming this rule was implement for more consistency of title, here's a example of a problem.
- One company put out a short version mp3 for their game. They label it (Short Ver.), they release an album with the full version soon after.
- One company put out a short version mp3 for their game. They don't label it (Short Ver.), they release an album with the full version soon after.
Under current rule, one will put Short Ver., the other won't. Inconsistent. If we have the opportunity to make it consistent in osu!, why not do it?
My main point here is that we are following a standard that is not consistent, if we want a consistent metadata here, then we should come up with a general rule.
This is close to perfect and easy to understand, plus it covers most cases except for some really odd ones, but no system is perfect.popner wrote:
Official op/ed: TV Size
Official short ver: Short Ver.
Non-official short ver: Cut Ver.
Also, I have already point out two recently ranked beatmap where short ver or variance should have been added, but wasn't so it seems the staffs need to be more educate on this or we can simplify the rule like above.
b. Now, if there is a dislike for adding a suffix, why not officially implementation a symbol on beatmap listing and maybe color code it? Like a green circle with a S for Short song 0:30 - 2:00 length. A blue circle with a N for "Normal" length for 2:00 - 3:30 length and 3:30+ a red circle with L for long. And for really long or Marathon, a purple circle with "M" for marathon.
It can be put on the top right above genre, language, ratings, etc. Some titles are really long so perhaps implement a ... so for example "Extremely long song n..." and when you scroll over, it reverts to default behavior and shows the full name. It seems most people would like to be able to distinguish song length so this solution seems like a nice compromise and there'll be no more need for suffix. If this is implemented, naturally, all beatmaps should no longer put any suffix for length. I am not sure about in game implementation though.
Hopes this clear some point up and show why I'm not fond of the current rule.
TV size can be used if that is the song's title. Can you not understand? Do not change the song's title under any circumstance.
Current provision is:peppy wrote:
TV size can be used if that is the song's title. Can you not understand? Do not change the song's title under any circumstance.
Refrain from using names such as "Short", "Full", or "Cut Ver." in your map title unless the extension is part of the song's original title. These names aren't needed, as the song remains the same regardless of its length.Changing to:
Do not alter the song's title - this includes adding any marker to describe the cut of the song such as "Short Ver.", "TV Size" and so forth unless those markers are part of the official song title as listed by a reputable source.
^
I agree with that
I hope that makes all those (Full Ver.) dissapear
I agree with that
I hope that makes all those (Full Ver.) dissapear
Seems clear then?
Yep, that is fine, I was wondering why TV Size was allowed with no need to verify with an official source for a long time.
I still wish to see this rule changed so perhaps I will start a proper topic on this rehighlighting the points I have mentioned here, I believe I went off topic here since this topic is about allowing (Short Ver.) usages for game songs after all.
I still wish to see this rule changed so perhaps I will start a proper topic on this rehighlighting the points I have mentioned here, I believe I went off topic here since this topic is about allowing (Short Ver.) usages for game songs after all.
I like the original version to your suggested alternative. The rule should stay the way it is.
Rule has been changed to:
Do not alter the song's title. This includes adding any marker to describe the cut of the song such as "Short Ver.", "TV Size" and so forth unless those markers are part of the official song title as listed by a reputable source.
I really disagree with current rule. I thimg it should be changed as lolcubes said, if it was officially shorted, yet Short Ver. is not in the title, it should be still possible to add (Short Ver.) to the song title. We need any difference between short and full version's title to recognize them. Looking on length is not enough.