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[Proposal - Catch] Loosen up on 1/3 restrictions on salads

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Topic Starter
Secre
As of right now, the ranking criteria reads:

Individual 1/3 and/or 1/4 patterns must not persist for more than one bar (4 and 5 objects respectively).

Given a bpm of 180 as the standard for the ranking criteria, this means that 1/3s at a lower bpm are technically unrankable while 1/4s of the same spacings are at a higher bpm

For example, on this map beatmapsets/747341#fruits/1719036, the salad has a technically unrankable 1/3 chain at 02:04:804 (3,4,5,6,7) - while on another map beatmapsets/1404850#fruits/2913079 00:32:761 (1,2,3,4,5) - the same chain, albeit mapped at 1/4, is considered rankable even though at a much higher bpm

For a bit of reference, the gap between each note in sadistic music factory's salad is 121ms while the gap between each note in dreamin' attraction's salad is 73ms.

This creates a bit of an inconsistency between the ranking criteria based on what bpm and time signature you're mapping (which really shouldnt happen)

My proposal would be to move the 1/3 part of the rule unto the guidelines instead of having it be a rule. This would leave it up to the beatmap nominator's discretion as to whether it destroys density as much as the 1/4 (more standard) version of the rule.

The proposal would be as follows:

Rules:

Individual 1/3 and/or 1/4 patterns must not persist for more than one bar (4 and 5 objects respectively).

would change into

Rules:

Individual 1/4 patterns must not persist for more than one bar (5 objects respectively).

Guidelines:

Individual 1/3 patterns should not persist for more than one bar (4 objects respectively).


I couldnt personally find a wording that would make it so that 1/4 and 1/3 would be equal in terms of ruling while keeping similar ranking criteria restrictions so I think this would be the best solution going forward. If someone does find a solution that does work (without limiting 1/4 mapping as is currently) that would probably be the better solution.
wonjae
yes
Lacrima
yes
Phob
no
kfc nugget
Yup, totally agree.
Nokashi
To start things off, this is probably the only sensible compromise I can see regarding altering the usage restrictions of objects. The other choices would be ms-dictated windows which is something that would make things even more convoluted for no reason. This change touches on a select few maps, but in doing so offers a more free approach as to how to play with rhythm on lower diffs

When putting 1/3 and 1/4 on the same bpm, 1/3 naturally has a larger reaction window in terms of ms, therefore it doesnt give the same stacked feeling as a 1/4 of the same bpm would.

Other than that, I do agree that current number of allowed 1/3 objects can be a bit too restrictive on lower bpm mapping or in specific circumstances and I think its ideal that such cases can be allowed since they can be done tastefully without making something too dense and I feel like BNs are more than capable of judging any 1/3 set of objects that goes over 4 so its tastefully breaking the guideline or it doesnt
Spectator
I agree that the current number of allowed consecutive 1/3 objects in Salad is a bit too restrictive, and moving it to guideline would definitely make the circumstance better.
Greaper
What about making the full rule a guideline or even scraping the rule altogether?

The RC for Salads has a guideline saying:
Note density should follow a mostly 1/1 and 1/2 pattern. 1/3 and/or 1/4 patterns should be used sparingly.

This should already be sufficient as common sense can be applied when having a really dense 1/3 or 1/4 pattern.
Topic Starter
Secre
could work if u wanna go that route instead ya
Spectator
After the discussion within the NAT, we've decided to remove the rule "Individual 1/3 and/or 1/4 patterns must not persist for more than one bar (4 and 5 objects respectively)" since having "Note density should follow a mostly 1/1 and 1/2 pattern. 1/3 and/or 1/4 patterns should be used sparingly." as a guideline should be sufficient as common sense can be applied, as Greaper has already mentioned above.

We will leave this open for 24~ hours then we will create a PR to the wiki, so please freely leave your opinion about the change!
Souvenir
common sense yes
Deif
Deif
And merged!
javisama033
yes
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