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[Proposal] Make gradient the length-spread requirements

posted
Total Posts
6
quila
356 posts
Joined February 2016
Topic Starter
quila
Edit: After seeing people discuss this in the mentorship server it seems this won't be implemented, so archive it I guess.


Currently, there's multiple cut-off points at which the bottom diff in a set has to be a Normal, a Hard, etc. I think we could make this gradient while still keeping it simple and easy to interpret in real cases. To help imagine this, think about how the RC uses a gradient with a default point of 180BPM when describing difficulty element guidelines (i.e guidelines about 1/2 usage on lower diffs are laxer when the bpm is lower).
Here's the current spread rules

I want to modify this such that there is no cut-off points. Instead, sets with drain times of, for example, 4:14, could use higher-end Hard diffs or Insane diffs that are on the easier side as their bottom difficulties (at max).
Here's one way of implementing this.
I focused on simplicity when drafting this, exact wording can still be worked out.

I believe making these gradient makes perfect sense with the philosophy that led to there being different spread requirements for different drain times in the first place.
Last edited by quila , edited 4 times in total.
SaltyLucario
1,308 posts
Joined June 2015
SaltyLucario
sounds like a good idea on paper but in reality, how is it supposed to work?
for this to be implemented you'd have to define what makes for "average normal", "average hard" etc. and it's simply not possible as difficulty is quite often subjective - for example something thats average diff for one might be higher end one for others
quila
356 posts
Joined February 2016
Topic Starter
quila

SaltyLucario wrote:

sounds like a good idea on paper but in reality, how is it supposed to work?
for this to be implemented you'd have to define what makes for "average normal", "average hard" etc. and it's simply not possible as difficulty is quite often subjective - for example something thats average diff for one might be higher end one for others
BNs already do this for 'Normal', 'Hard', 'Insane', etc, and already know how to differentiate between, for example, normal diffs that are "too hard for a lowest diff normal" and ones which aren't, so I don't think this would be too much harder (if not already within the realm of what they currently do sometimes)
Drum-Hitnormal
Beatmap Nominator
1,642 posts
Joined March 2011
Drum-Hitnormal
yes BN know how to differentiate, but they might not arrive at same conclusion, its too subjective.

spread rule should be as objective as possible, it is currently. I think your suggestion is making it more complicated and I don't see what is the problem with current spread rule and how your suggestion solves it.

RC clearly define what Easy/Normal/Hard etc is. there are set of rules for each difficulty that you need folow.

RC does not define how to differentiate which Normal is harder.

that is the problem with your suggestion. you would need an objective indicator of which diff is harder (something like SR) but its not realistic.
Last edited by Drum-Hitnormal , edited 2 times in total.
Chromate
97 posts
Joined October 2019
Chromate
I think there should be an easier way to implement this. there HAS TO be an easier way to implement this. one way is to make a rule that Sum of all difficulties' drain time have a minimum of 5:00, however this method is too crude and will bring in tons of 2 diff 2min30 maps. we can use other curves, like variants of the log function, but I don't know if this will have a big effect as the rc will still favor a certain map length. as long as the diff count is quantized (its always a natural number, u cant have 1.5 diffs or 2.5 diffs or smth), which is basically forever, we cannot fix this issue, we can only make this issue have a bit more fair of a solution, pushing it to a later time to fix it.
quila
356 posts
Joined February 2016
Topic Starter
quila

Chromate wrote:

I think there should be an easier way to implement this. there HAS TO be an easier way to implement this. one way is to make a rule that Sum of all difficulties' drain time have a minimum of 5:00, however this method is too crude and will bring in tons of 2 diff 2min30 maps. we can use other curves, like variants of the log function, but I don't know if this will have a big effect as the rc will still favor a certain map length. as long as the diff count is quantized (its always a natural number, u cant have 1.5 diffs or 2.5 diffs or smth), which is basically forever, we cannot fix this issue, we can only make this issue have a bit more fair of a solution, pushing it to a later time to fix it.
i like this analysis. someone please archive this as i asked in the edit
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