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[Proposal] Allow uninherited timing points to differ between difficulties

posted
Total Posts
12
Resona
Beatmap Nominator
244 posts
Joined August 2013
Topic Starter
Resona
In terms of actual RC changes, we could just have the current rule (seen below) become a guideline instead.
"Uninherited timing points must be the same in every difficulty of a beatmapset. Each point must have the same BPM and offset in each difficulty."

After looking through some old proposals of the same idea (community/forums/topics/1167387), I believe rewriting the rule as the following would be a better option than making the current rule a guideline.

"Uninherited timing points that time the same sounds must be identical across every difficulty of a beatmapset. Each of these points must have the same BPM and offset in each difficulty. Points that time different sounds are explicitly exempt from this."

The reasoning for this change would be to allow different layers of songs to be mapped across different difficulties in the event that they require snapping to different timing (ie. variable bpm guitar, fixed drums).
Nominators should ensure they check that inconsistent uninherited points make sense within the beatmapset and individual difficulties.
Last edited by Resona , edited 1 time in total.
Akito
138 posts
Joined January 2015
Akito
community/forums/topics/1167387

same stuff as this thread, afaik there was no valid reason not to have this change but you know how osu is so nothing ever happened :))

but yes this would be a positive change that i agree with. there were also suggestions to just add an exception to the current rule rather than making it a guideline although functionally they'd do the same thing.
Last edited by Akito , edited 1 time in total.
VINXIS
Featured Artist
3,161 posts
Joined April 2014
VINXIS
would be better not the same thing as a guideline but rather just explicitly stating that if low diffs require simpler timing itll be allowed inside the rule but yrea
Last edited by VINXIS , edited 2 times in total.
Resona
Beatmap Nominator
244 posts
Joined August 2013
Topic Starter
Resona
ok didnt see the other threads but apparently this has been brought up a million times with no real disagreement (although different variations on how it should be done)

ill wait 2 weeks to refine wording but i guess consensus from the thread akito linked was to not move to guideline but instead make an exception to the rule specifically for mapping different rhythms across different difficulties

i guess something like this:
"Uninherited timing points that time the same sounds must be identical across every difficulty of a beatmapset. Each of these points must have the same BPM and offset in each difficulty. Points that time different sounds are explicitly exempt from this."
SilentWuffer
289 posts
Joined December 2017
SilentWuffer
I did have a thing I wanted to mention in the other thread: why would a song have different layers for different instruments? if it's live timing, an approximation should be sufficient in the end. If it's not, you could find the least common multiple of the bpms to just use the same bpm throughout.
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,107 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
you cant use the least common multiple because it could fuck up sv, slider ticks, nightcore, etc. and approximation isnt necessarily better than just timing whatever instrument youre mapping in a part more accurately on each difficulty level
AJT
551 posts
Joined August 2013
AJT
gonna bump this since it's quite relevant to a map i'm modding right now and i stumbled across this.

afaik, there's not really any reason to prevent an allowance like this as long as the emphasis is on the BN to check whether it's needed and optimal? seems to make a lot of sense to me, especially considering the precision to which low diffs inherit complex timing is often completely unnecessary as it doesn't even apply to their rhythms or isn't a change that will be felt by them anyway

it just seems really unnecessary to make mappers jump through hoops in cases to cheese timing on low diffs so theyre not unsnapped when if they could just differ timing it would be exactly the same
Last edited by AJT , edited 3 times in total.
Akito
138 posts
Joined January 2015
Akito
we don't want people adjusting timing to make low diff rhythms more intuitive
from this other thread: community/forums/topics/1094337

pishifat wrote:

working around these messy sv/sliderlength sliders on low diffs is more reasonable than changing timing to fit weird rhythms. timing should be consistent because it's a factor of the song, not the way it's mapped. timing being "easier" to adjust than sv/sliderlength shouldn't be a factor

if you're in a situation where simplification can help the a lower diff, it [hopefully] can be applied to upper diffs without sounding incorrect. if it sounds incorrect in upper diffs, it probably shouldn't be done in lower diffs anyway
the change should be targeted at cases where the rhythm of 2 instruments are on completely different metronomes, which doesn't happen frequently but there should be something in the rc that allows for either to be mapped on different difficulties
[[[[[[
886 posts
Joined August 2019
[[[[[[
+1
LMT
535 posts
Joined October 2015
LMT
Even relaxing this rule a bit is already in the correct direction. Timing should be chosen such that it supports the rhythm choice instead of "timed to the song", because there are many ways you can time a song. I support this proposal.
Respirte
670 posts
Joined March 2017
Respirte
Support for this, since there are some songs out there that just cannot be simplified freely, without limiting yourself immensely to the red lines that are needed to support the higher difficulties. Some songs bpms vary so wildly that you can't even realstically cheese timing points as AJT mentioned, (which was something we had to do for a lower diff on a recent non-quantised set of his) so having the guideline reworked to suit these niche cases would be very useful (specifically in this case, allowing for the removal of extra red lines, rather than the addition of new ones to follow different instruments)
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
archiving community/forums/posts/8656661
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