Preface

A recently ranked map, http://osu.ppy.sh/b/239886 uses a hitsounding technique in which the mapper modifies the function of the sliderslide audio file in order to add a sound in which ordinary means would render this impossible. What happens is that a certain section of a slider suddenly starts playing a single, distinct sound, instead of a continuously sounding one.

For a visual reference:



We look at object (3) . What happens here is that the original sliderslide.wav, what is meant to be a continuous playing sound, plays from the beginning of the slider to the first inherited point, and suddenly at this point, a single, distinct sound is heard. So what we have is a continuous sound suddenly turning into a distinct sound all in the duration of a single slider.

So, what now?

First, we need to define the intended purpose of the sliderslide file. We can begin by first defining what a hitsound is, and next, we can compare the differences between a slider sound and a single sound to see their usage.

A hitsound is a sound that plays while an object is being played, regardless of whether it is played once or played continuously. The continuous sounds (sliderslide, sliderwhistle, and spinnerspin) are continuously looping files until the container that holds this sound ends. Single sounds (normal, clap, whistle, finish, and slider tick) play once, and are heard at circles, slider heads, slider repeats, slider tails, slider ticks, and spinner ends. Their difference is obvious; we use one set when a sound is meant to be played once, and we use a different set when a sound is meant to be played continuously.

Now let's look under which category sliderslide falls under. From internal discussion:

• What is sliderslide used for?

1. A continuous sound during a slider, a drum roll for example.
2. A long note (also continuous throughout the entire slider).

Do we see the problem with the ranked example provided above? ALSO from internal discussion:

• Easy ways to fix it

1. Change the slider into circles.
2. Reduce the slider's length and use a repeat where the hitsound should be.
3. Use sliderticks instead which are conveniently implemented for that very purpose.

Proposal

A list of simple solutions has been provided. And thus, I am proposing either one of the following two implementations to the ranking criteria:

or
Please discuss.

Saying that there is a concrete way for sliderslides to be used would go against a lot of gameplay and sound developments that osu! has undergone over the years.
For example, sliders are meant to be played from start to finish, but people are exploring optional methods of sliders by using the yellow leniency circle. Technically, this is abuse, but it works well and creates something very interesting.

In this case, the mapper is using a sliderslide to play a hitsound on an object. This achieves a sound played much like a hitsounded tick or a storyboarded sound without the need for a high tickrate or storyboard code.
Just because it goes against the general idea of a sliderslide doesn't mean it can't work, nor does it mean it should be unrankable / not allowed.

Besides, mappers have had lots of creative sound control over their maps. The only thing we enforce is a requirement of some form of hitsounds and no circles or slider starts silent. This is merely a manipulation of hitsounds, something mappers have been able to do for ages. Why make it a rule or guideline now?
This is a very interesting development in hitsounding and I'd like to see where this goes. This might work as a guideline for people who really don't like it, but I can never, ever, ever see it as a rule.

The followcircle simply defines that the slider's start and end positions are not what they appear to be. It is not considered an abuse of the system; if there was a variable setting that allowed the change in followcircle size, then yes, these two would be similar cases. But as of right now, they are not.

Then why would changing the hitsound of a slider to something that the mapper wants suddenly be a problem? Just because the sound only plays once doesn't suddenly make it unacceptable or a disaster.

Like I said before, this would be okay as a guideline, not a rule.

This looks like the same topic LKs created. Am I mistaken? If not, I'll merge both threads.

For cases like this one, there really should be a slidertick used instead of the slide.
If that, for whatever reason, is not doable, one could also SB the sound (see Scarlet Rose - not that I'd enjoy the map in general and it feels weird if one misses the specific hit object, yet hears a sound that is mean to be a hitsound, but at least it works out better than abusing the slide, imo).

So yeah, setteling for a guideline and recommending it to people would do best here, I think - if used well, any creative element of mapping is good (obviously), but keeping it to the, well... objects that they were designed for certainly does better.
In this case: If the slider did not have a slidertick on it for hitsounding purposes, ask "Why does it not have a higher tick rate?" - if the answer to this is that it'd be a too high one (4, for example) for the song's overall feeling, that's okay; but then, you should ask yourself "If I want a destinct (hit)sound here, why do I not just use a short slider or a reverse arrow?", as these feel more natural and generally better with hitsounds on them than slidertracks/slides or also ticks do.

I guess that's sort of my opinion on that topic - low diffs, however, may have at least more of a reason to use these "additional elements of (sound-)design", as they tend to consist of longer sliders rather than more (complicated) rhythmic patterns of multiple smaller ones.
Hoping this'll lead to something, if even "only" a better understanding/overall feel of players for how to use hitsounds naturally.
Nothing against creativity, but sticking to things that are proven to work more natural for what you are going for is definitely not a bad thing; rather, it really is better in utmost all cases.

Uhh, there is a reason why sliderslide (and the others mentioned) loops around, it IS supposed to be a continous sound.

As long as you don't screw it up (ie modding process to weed out the bad applications) it should be okay, but I'd rather people just use the proper tick rate since that's precisely what it's for in this particular example.

i dont like if this things become a rule, i like normalsliderwhistle have a unique flow

for example


can i ?

Loctav wrote:

This looks like the same topic LKs created. Am I mistaken? If not, I'll merge both threads.

Actually I was wondering why this one wasn't moved to denied along with the other one.

LKs' thread covered custom sliderslide. This one covers a specific use of it.

To me, I think this would be better as a guideline. As Sakura mentioned, it is obvious that it's designed to be a constant sound, but the exploitation of it could work in special cases I think and should be handled on a per map basis

Garven wrote:

As long as you don't screw it up (ie modding process to weed out the bad applications) it should be okay, but I'd rather people just use the proper tick rate since that's precisely what it's for in this particular example.

I agree with what Garven's stated. The map that you've listed doesn't really use this in too much of a bad way, but I feel that using a slidertick hitsound and a more suiting tick rate would be better than what was done.

Making a rule out of your proposition is a bit too extreme in my opinion. A guideline would be a better.

zeroclover wrote:

can i ?

That's fine as long as both sliderslide and sliderwhistle are looping audio files and not a sound that only plays once each time. This, in fact, is great.

I disagree with the way he mapped the 3/4s but for the way he mapped that I think the sliderslide was the best solution because it makes misses work properly as opposed to the broken, awkward mess they'd be SB'd. However, I think that switching back to C1 should have happened immediately after switching to C2 (like, only a couple ms after) so the "correct" sliderslide sound would continue playing.

That said, he also used that custom sliderslide to more or less hitsound slider ticks. I don't like that at all. However, this is more of a "this is wrong" sort of thing than a "breaks the game" thing.

Anyways, this is the first time I've seen something like this so I don't really think it's a significant issue.

It should be extremely obvious when hitsounding is being abused. Sliders are sliders--the start is the strongest, the end is weaker, the ticks are even weaker and the slide itself is the weakest. The default drum sample can be used to give ticks more momentum, but it really goes against the ethos of a slider to use strong hitsounds on the ticks. If the tick rate is set correctly, then the ticks will fill out the most dense, repeated parts in the music. Every time I see such lunacy as forcing a consistent backbeat with slidertick claps, I think that the mapper doesn't know how to maintain the momentum in a consistent manner.

This thread is abadoned and no one pushed this any forward. Marking this as No Change. If you want to revive this, move it back and mark it iwth a star. And please, finalize it, if you do so.