Yes but in term of rankability do you think an AR10 should contain a lot of "memorized" jumps ? I know some (lot ?) of players include memorization into skill in AR10 but I think reflex gameplay should be more promoted than memorization gameplay in AR10, cause most maps wich are actually not FC'd with HR are the ones wich contains a lot of those memory jumps. That's why in my logic : If a CtB map should be FCable an AR10 map should pretty much only contains jumps wich are readable. You still can use hard jumps but not in1/1 beat for example cause in most bpms a 1/1 hard jump will be impossible to sightread in AR10. The only way I see this kind of jumps rankable in AR10 is to make them VERY obvious (with repetitive pattern, hitsounding, or fit as hell in this part of the song) meaning the most players will think it's a jump, but since each player is different it is very hard to judge.
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Catch the Beat Mapping Discussions
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1/1 are the easiest to read so far, I only get confused when they are long 1/2 but still I can read them if I'm playing in optimal conditions!!Drafura wrote:
Yes but in term of rankability do you think an AR10 should contain a lot of "memorized" jumps ? I know some (lot ?) of players include memorization into skill in AR10 but I think reflex gameplay should be more promoted than memorization gameplay in AR10, cause most maps wich are actually not FC'd with HR are the ones wich contains a lot of those memory jumps. That's why in my logic : If a CtB map should be FCable an AR10 map should pretty much only contains jumps wich are readable. You still can use hard jumps but not in1/1 beat for example cause in most bpms a 1/1 hard jump will be impossible to sightread in AR10. The only way I see this kind of jumps rankable in AR10 is to make them VERY obvious (with repetitive pattern, hitsounding, or fit as hell in this part of the song) meaning the most players will think it's a jump, but since each player is different it is very hard to judge.
How can you read a jump wich is not on the screen ?
Experience? It is obvious when a big 1/1 jump comes, anyways, I don't think the fruit isn't in the screen when you have to move ... or if it is, I don't know, but I can do them :pDrafura wrote:
How can you read a jump wich is not on the screen ?
yap I agree , anyway I've had an suggest for adding about circle size for discussion to the CTB diff spread , because for this case :eldnl wrote:
1/1 are the easiest to read so far, I only get confused when they are long 1/2 but still I can read them if I'm playing in optimal conditions!!
Experience? It is obvious when a big 1/1 jump comes, anyways, I don't think the fruit isn't in the screen when you have to move ... or if it is, I don't know, but I can do them :p
1: It's silly to use smaller CS to easy maps or even AR10 maps
so what's your opinion ?
Topic Starter
well i love small CS but with easy maps not hard pattern jumps,but i think the CS should be not very small for AR 10 and maps with hard jump pattern
I think it's up to the mapper but extremely small fruits should be banned. Maybe in some cases it could be allowed, but I can't find any case where it could fit.
When we stay in decent sizes CtB is more pattern dependant in term of difficulty so a smaller circle size can be used to make neater patterns or even trigger extra hypers. That's why I think it's up to the mapper decision.
About a rule/guideline for using only smaller or same object's size when increasing the difficulty : I have no opinion, I would personally do it like this for my maps but I see no point in restricting this to other mappers.
When we stay in decent sizes CtB is more pattern dependant in term of difficulty so a smaller circle size can be used to make neater patterns or even trigger extra hypers. That's why I think it's up to the mapper decision.
About a rule/guideline for using only smaller or same object's size when increasing the difficulty : I have no opinion, I would personally do it like this for my maps but I see no point in restricting this to other mappers.
Seph
I personally think that a small CS doesn't fit anywhere, but if someone like it ...Drafura wrote:
I think it's up to the mapper but extremely small fruits should be banned. Maybe in some cases it could be allowed, but I can't find any case where it could fit.
When we stay in decent sizes CtB is more pattern dependant in term of difficulty so a smaller circle size can be used to make neater patterns or even trigger extra hypers. That's why I think it's up to the mapper decision.
About a rule/guideline for using only smaller or same object's size when increasing the difficulty : I have no opinion, I would personally do it like this for my maps but I see no point in restricting this to other mappers.
Should be like this, in my opinion. Shown level jumps is max jump distance in map.
I think low CS doesn't look good in both standard and CtB, and this is something we can observe specially when seeing how most of the maps won't go +5 in CS.
Topic Starter
Since i see someone opended a queue again i had the idea of adding the queue after the nick in the box of modders/''help ppl'', do you think it will be ok or should i leave it how it is atm? =w=
Creating a new topic like the one in the Taiko subforum seems more logical, because you're listing the active modders within the community.
Nevertheless it's a great idea, since it's a very pain in the neck to check the whole Mod Request subforum for a queue that offers CTB modding/GD.
Nevertheless it's a great idea, since it's a very pain in the neck to check the whole Mod Request subforum for a queue that offers CTB modding/GD.
A list of modders is not a bad idea, actually we need that to make the system works faster.Deif wrote:
Creating a new topic like the one in the Taiko subforum seems more logical, because you're listing the active modders within the community.
Nevertheless it's a great idea, since it's a very pain in the neck to check the whole Mod Request subforum for a queue that offers CTB modding/GD.
Actually we need to show which maps are extremely needed to be modded and that's why I support modding list lel
I guess we can use OD to make the difficulty spread fits, when it is possible.Deif wrote:
- Overall Difficulty should have the same value as the Approach Rate. This is just a standardized value, as OD does not affect gameplay nor the amount of fruits a spinner has, just the max score of a difficulty.
AR already influences in making a proper difficulty spread (AR in Rain > Platter > ...). As OD goes along with the AR, that shouldn't be a real problem.
Anyone knows if OD affects hyperdashes (triggering distance or behavior) in this build ?
new updates ?Drafura wrote:
Anyone knows if OD affects hyperdashes (triggering distance or behavior) in this build ?
Deif wrote:
AR already influences in making a proper difficulty spread (AR in Rain > Platter > ...). As OD goes along with the AR, that shouldn't be a real problem.
AR & OD yould get along for the diff. for some reason i think it's important because of the spinner's part & also i think for the pattern converts on HR
Topic Starter
ty dani for open a new tread :3!
hmm i'm not sure about, did you do some tests?Drafura wrote:
Anyone knows if OD affects hyperdashes (triggering distance or behavior) in this build ?
Tests has been made under the old build proving OD was only affecting the score of the beatmap as Deif's stated in his last post. That's why I'm wondering if this has been changed, there's no reasons to have been changed but imho others things changed wich wasn't needed, so maybe tests should be done once more time to check this point imo.
Topic Starter
hmm,i played some maps today and i din't notice the difference since last days i played,but yap some things are changed
I did some tests, every score is 1 play count
Spin OD0 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/790885
Spin OD10 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/790888
Map OD0 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/790895
Map OD10 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/790897
Also watched auto playing with HR and in both cases it is the same
OD only affects the score
Spin OD0 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/790885
Spin OD10 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/790888
Map OD0 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/790895
Map OD10 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/790897
Also watched auto playing with HR and in both cases it is the same
OD only affects the score
Topic Starter
but it should not affect the score .w. then someone will use higher OD just to increse the score, even if a little difference
It affects the score because in standard maps works, anyways, the score is nothing to worry aboutLally wrote:
but it should not affect the score .w. then someone will use higher OD just to increse the score, even if a little difference
Thanks eldnl for the test. Okay so it stills only affecting score so I think it's better to stick with what was decided in the rules and use AR = OD. It was decided because it is how the very old beatmap format (wich didn't had AR settings if I remember well) was calculating the AR, and the second reason was obviously to force mapper to have more score on harder difficulties.
In my eyes it doesn't matter but if we have to set a rule about this I prefer AR = OD just cause it makes the things easier.
In my eyes it doesn't matter but if we have to set a rule about this I prefer AR = OD just cause it makes the things easier.
Topic Starter
well true since it just affects the scores,and not the gameplay like in standard
But putting OD10 in easy maps looks a bit strange.
"A bit"
"A bit"
That's why, if we follow the guideline OD=AR as it is now, this is prevented.... or you can show me an easy with AR 10..... before I killed the mapper then, lol.Don Omar wrote:
But putting OD10 in easy maps looks a bit strange.
"A bit"
Even if you drop OD to 0 the score shouldn't be less than an easier difficulty, I pointed this out because of this map http://osu.ppy.sh/s/90323
I tried to have a perfect spread (ENHI), but I nedeed to use OD0 on Salad for that. So, if it doesn't affect anything, let's use it with common sense, even if you don't want to have Cup + OD0 it doesn't affect anything, and that's why we should mod maps.
I tried to have a perfect spread (ENHI), but I nedeed to use OD0 on Salad for that. So, if it doesn't affect anything, let's use it with common sense, even if you don't want to have Cup + OD0 it doesn't affect anything, and that's why we should mod maps.
I see what you mean here... that a Salad gives more points than a Platter is really strange but I think diffs shouldn't be measured on the highest possible score but on difficulty. I modded your map so I know how it looks like and that the Salad gives more points than the Platter... is something I didn't look at, tbh, but what is rather strange. Why? Normally the difficulty of the map should be enough to make the difference in score between difficulties and then it's a bit strange that you really have to play with the OD to achieve a different score so it's "more fitting for the specific difficulty". (what I want to say, is, if there didn't went something wrong?)eldnl wrote:
Even if you drop OD to 0 the score shouldn't be less than an easier difficulty, I pointed this out because of this map http://osu.ppy.sh/s/90323
I tried to have a perfect spread (ENHI), but I nedeed to use OD0 on Salad for that. So, if it doesn't affect anything, let's use it with common sense, even if you don't want to have Cup + OD0 it doesn't affect anything, and that's why we should mod maps.
Edit: And yeah, on your response on my mod I can see that you don't really care anbout this guideline xD (I didn't either btw but got forced to change it bcs in the end it doesn't effect anything in a special way and that's why this guideline was made. To have consistency, something to refer on and not something to make that much sense on technical side (in this case). It helps to maintain a certain order and to prevent just a random mess^^)
I didn't saw score problems so, I've pm'd eldnl and the matter is the difficulty detection of osu! not fitting with CtB. The 1/4 sliders makes the problem appear and the Normal is detected as a Hard by the system. The best way to solve this would be a fix, cause streams aren't allways hard in CtB, h-spacing is the key here.
Probably because the difficulty on a map has nothing to do with the distance of the notes, but with the density.Drafura wrote:
I didn't saw score problems so, I've pm'd eldnl and the matter is the difficulty detection of osu! not fitting with CtB. The 1/4 sliders makes the problem appear and the Normal is detected as a Hard by the system. The best way to solve this would be a fix, cause streams aren't allways hard in CtB, h-spacing is the key here.
You can help posting here t/135943
Can you explain your mind ? Cause I don't get why it would be a problem.Seph wrote:
so has anyone thought of disallowing multiple sv changes on ctb maps?
Topic Starter
i don't think is a very big problem o3o
but try to explain the specific problem, because I don't understandSeph wrote:
sorry but it actually is, perfect example is Aimai Elegy
SV= slider velocity, basically the speed of a slider.Don Omar wrote:
what is sv?
Seph
slider velocityDon Omar wrote:
what is sv?
abuse of SV speedeldnl wrote:
but try to explain the specific problem, because I don't understandSeph wrote:
sorry but it actually is, perfect example is Aimai Elegy
01:07:330 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
pretty self explanatory imo, sudden change of sv (mostly increasing) on maps arent necessary because
1. inconsistency on spacing (jumps)
2. maps are not meant to be played without unpressing dash
3. timing on jumps would get messed up
I've found Amai Elegy sliders very nice and fitting very well in the song 
I don't think a guideline/rule would be needed for this. I mean if the mapper wants to mess with the timing on jumps cause it fits there's no reason to restrict it.
I mean all of this make sense but the rule/guideline will fall under the basic universal rule of every beatmap (any mode) : "Your mapping should fit with the song".
I don't think a guideline/rule would be needed for this. I mean if the mapper wants to mess with the timing on jumps cause it fits there's no reason to restrict it.
No, but if a certain part of the song fits with a full dash pattern why restrict it ?Seph wrote:
2. maps are not meant to be played without unpressing dash
I mean all of this make sense but the rule/guideline will fall under the basic universal rule of every beatmap (any mode) : "Your mapping should fit with the song".
Drafura is right, but in my opinion it doesn't fit on that map/part
DaxMasterix is not a newbie mapper at all, and he surely knows what's right/wrong, or funny/painful to play. The SV change spam you mean is used to increase/decrease gradually the difficulty in both kiai times in Aimai Elegy, so it does make sense.
"No more than 3 SV per difficulty" was only a guideline, as far as I know... Check his maps carefully nevertheless, because he tries to use a perfect symmetry by increasing or decreasing the SV at some points, instead of making those sliders more vertical or horizontal.
It's another technique to map, more laborious, yet valid IMO.
"No more than 3 SV per difficulty" was only a guideline, as far as I know... Check his maps carefully nevertheless, because he tries to use a perfect symmetry by increasing or decreasing the SV at some points, instead of making those sliders more vertical or horizontal.
It's another technique to map, more laborious, yet valid IMO.
actually SV doesn't matter in CTB maps. it can be manually adjust by changing the slider direction, so fix SV seems stupid in CTB maps. I can make an SV 3.0 map just like a SV 1.0 map.
But yes, there should be a reason that people keep changing their slider speed, just like jumps.
But yes, there should be a reason that people keep changing their slider speed, just like jumps.
for SV case , as long the map flow have the same sense with the SV , it's ok
also the most important thing , the slider from SV's change must be catched 100%
that's why for ctb map , the limit for SV can be more than 3 , as long the SV are followed the flow from that map.
also the most important thing , the slider from SV's change must be catched 100%
that's why for ctb map , the limit for SV can be more than 3 , as long the SV are followed the flow from that map.
Topic Starter
explain your point better then
Not everybody is in #ctb always. Would you mind explaining yourself better, or posting the savelog of that chat?
Topic Starter
i agree with this, i don't follow always the chat but i wanna know your opinion about .w.Deif wrote:
Not everybody is in #ctb always. Would you mind explaining yourself better, or posting the savelog of that chat?