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Official stance on gimmick maps?

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Topic Starter
Soaprman
Been meaning to post this for a while, but haven't really felt like it until now.

Not that long ago, BlythE got approved after literally infinity years in pending. There have also been posts on occasion hinting that such maps can be approved, like this one: p/2182678 and this one: p/2182975 . I think I've seen a few other such posts too but don't recall where/when they were made. (For what it's worth, these posts were both made by Sakura, who also appears to be one of the most frequent editors of the wiki page.)

The Ranking Criteria page currently contains no mention of such maps being allowed. The sole stated purpose of the Approval category is for marathon maps.

Ranking Criteria, as of the time of this post wrote:

Approved Category is only for Marathon maps. Long maps with over 6 minutes of draining time fit the Approval category. Only then they are allowed to be single difficulty mapsets. If they are below 6 minutes of draining time, a full difficulty spread is needed and the map will have to be ranked instead.
I trust that posts like the ones I linked above that are made in unrelated threads can't be construed as official statements. So that's what I'm asking for... an official wording on whether maps that break the rules can still get into the Approved category. (Obviously this excludes technical/metadata rules like correct timing or backgrounds being work-safe).

For those who know of Fear Factory, yes, this post was made because I aim to make one last attempt to get it approved (while breaking the rules it currently breaks). For those who don't know but want a summary, it's a map that emulates the feel of the Blackout Basement level from Donkey Kong Country by using an alternating light/black background and black approach circles to create a "now you see it, now you don't" effect. There is also a difficulty that blacks out (i.e. silences) the hitsounds and a difficulty with fake hitcircles where the fake ones are the ones with the lighter approach circles. Not everyone likes or appreciates the gimmicks but the mapset has received its share of positive feedback (both in the thread and in PM). It got shot down pretty hard when I first submitted it in 2011, and I didn't do the best job conducting myself when responding to the rejection.

Can or cannot such a map be approved? The same goes for other gimmick maps like Fake It and any others out there I might not know about. (If there are any, please link me! I'd love to try them.)

While a yes or no is my goal, some rationale behind the stance would be much more satisfying. (i.e. instead of saying "no, because it's against the rules", say why the rules are designed to forbid it to begin with.)

For clarification, when I say "gimmick map" I refer to a map that breaks rules for a very apparent/overarching purpose. Maps that break rules on more isolated occasions (e.g. a regular map that has a few burai sliders in it) aren't what I'm asking about (though I would love to see them be allowed in approved, too).

Happy posting, and hopefully happy ending. :)
Sakura
I currently don't have an issue with Fear Factory getting approved, it's a nice gimmick, and you aren't using gimmick to get away with a 1-diff mapset either since you have a full spread, so it's not lazy either, and i would like to think that you genuinely want to push the lights out effect as a gimmick.

As for the official stance, yeah it's true that there's no mention of it on the wiki and should be fixed.
Topic Starter
Soaprman
Not sure whether to interpret that as a yes or a no, though I certainly appreciate the agreeable sentiment!

I'd say I'm surprised nobody else posted in here, but this really wouldn't be the first time I've made a post on this topic and been almost completely ignored. Oh well. Worst case scenario is that it goes back to its natural habitat in the graveyard...
Lybydose
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/47872 Approve it.

Actually, one of the reasons for merging approval and ranking was so that "gimmick" maps could have a scoreboard, hence why blythe was approved.
Starz0r
I feel a wave of gimmick maps being approved in the near future...

NOT THAT ITS A BAD THING
Topic Starter
Soaprman
So if it's a yes (which is what it sounds like), will it be added to the ranking criteria, or will it stay unwritten?

Starz0r wrote:

I feel a wave of gimmick maps being approved in the near future...
I wish, man... part of the reason I posted this here instead of just pestering BATs incessantly in #modhelp is because I want others to see it in case they have their own goofy ideas.
MMzz
They arent killing anyone, why not approve? In moderation gimmicks would be cool.
Shohei Ohtani

Soaprman wrote:

literally infinity years in pending.
You don't know infinity in pending
Topic Starter
Soaprman
Modern computers are capable of handling numbers higher than literally infinity? My, the marvels of technology...
MillhioreF
I think there's a general consensus among BATs that gimmick maps are approvable, so long as they have a decent spread and only break very specific rules. I'm not sure that TAG1 map is approvable though, you'll have to get some more opinions on it.
Starz0r

MillhioreF wrote:

I think there's a general consensus among BATs that gimmick maps are approvable, so long as they have a decent spread and only break very specific rules. I'm not sure that TAG1 map is approvable though, you'll have to get some more opinions on it.
TAG maps can only be approved if they can be FCed by a single human player with no mods.
Topic Starter
Soaprman
It's not a normal TAG map. Most TAG maps end in 2 or 4. :P
eldnl
EDIT nothing
Topic Starter
Soaprman
I still don't feel I've gotten a hard "yes" or "no" on this, and the ranking criteria page hasn't been updated either. I'm not about to ask you guys to approve a map on an assumption that it can be approved.

Sorry if my repeated posting about this is getting on anyone's nerves. If you'd rather give me a "shut up" than a "yes" or a "no", I understand completely.

If the approved category gets decommissioned before this discussion is over with, pretend it was about getting ranked all along.
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