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Kudosu System Changes

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41
peppy
19,318 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
After some careful consideration and discussions in IRC, I have decided to make some changes to the Kudosu system. They aim to improve the fairness and give slightly more power to the users, with more focus being placed on star priority than before in terms of bubble/rankability.

  1. You can now shoot a kudosu star at any mapper's map (previously only your own). This will give them 2 SP at the cost of 3 kudosu. You can do so via their profile (under the beatmaps section) or from the forum post itself (link near top).
  2. Maps with less than 8 SP are no longer eligible for bubbles or ranking. BAT members are now discouraged from modding any map below this level at all, so maps with higher priority are processed more quickly. Therefore, all you users out there need to show your support for the maps you enjoy playing more than ever!
  3. BAT stars have a reduced value of 2 SP (previously 3) to even things out. The idea is that BAT members should not have much more of a say than regular users as to which beatmaps should get all the attention. It also means two BATs can no longer "snipe" a specific map for ranking.
A few guidelines which we should try and follow to keep everyone happy:

BAT Members: Some users have complained that the team is modding other BAT member's maps before higher prioritised maps. Let's aim to change this view by keeping high priority maps under more constant attention. Really, it would be great to see the number of bubbles in the forum reduced to as close to zero as possible!

Users: Please make sure you check out people's maps. Aim for those with Star Priority of 8 or less (the lower the better really) so we can really make sure all maps with potential get their chance in the spotlight. Even if you don't feel confident enough to point out errors, if you enjoyed playing the map then leave a comment and a star (no kudosu required!).

Feel free to discuss in this thread as per usual~
Last edited by LuigiHann , edited 2 times in total.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Seibei4211
osu! Alumni
1,701 posts
Joined August 2008
Seibei4211

strager wrote:

peppy wrote:

  1. You can now shoot a kudosu star at any mapper's map (previously only your own). This will give them 2 SP at the cost of 3 kudosu. You can do so via their profile (under the beatmaps section) or from the forum post itself (link near top).
\o/ (Was my suggestion. <3)
Uh, that idea's been around for a long time. That was discussed very shortly after the stars got implemented. I thought I heard Echo talk about this...or maybe he was just agreeing.

strager wrote:

peppy wrote:

  1. BAT stars have a reduced value of 2 SP (previously 3) to even things out. The idea is that BAT members should not have much more of a say than regular users as to which beatmaps should get all the attention. It also means two BATs can't "snipe" a specific map for ranking (now at LEAST 3 BAT members must first star the map, or expend their kudosu).
Does the emphasized comment mean that if the OP were a BAT he can star his map thrice and have it ranked (assuming the SP minimum were reached too)? Sounds like that could be abused...
BATs can't give their own maps BAT stars just like other mappers can't star their own map with a forum post and kudosu stars are the same no matter who uses them. Anyone can give their map 8 priority from kudosu stars. It's not abuse; it's using your earned kudosu.
peppy
19,318 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy

strager wrote:

Does the emphasized comment mean that if the OP were a BAT he can star his map thrice and have it ranked (assuming the SP minimum were reached too)? Sounds like that could be abused...
I am hoping we don't see this happening. If it does, numbers can be adjusted accordingly.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Seibei4211 wrote:

strager wrote:

peppy wrote:

  1. You can now shoot a kudosu star at any mapper's map (previously only your own). This will give them 2 SP at the cost of 3 kudosu. You can do so via their profile (under the beatmaps section) or from the forum post itself (link near top).
\o/ (Was my suggestion. <3)
Uh, that idea's been around for a long time. That was discussed very shortly after the stars got implemented. I thought I heard Echo talk about this...or maybe he was just agreeing.
Didn't know.

I reword: I suggested it on the forums. =]

peppy wrote:

strager wrote:

Does the emphasized comment mean that if the OP were a BAT he can star his map thrice and have it ranked (assuming the SP minimum were reached too)? Sounds like that could be abused...
I am hoping we don't see this happening. If it does, numbers can be adjusted accordingly.
Or just require three separate BAT members star the map (rather than having three stars from BAT members)?
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo

strager wrote:

peppy wrote:

  1. You can now shoot a kudosu star at any mapper's map (previously only your own). This will give them 2 SP at the cost of 3 kudosu. You can do so via their profile (under the beatmaps section) or from the forum post itself (link near top).
\o/ (Was my suggestion. <3)
Actually, me first c. 2 months ago, but I posted in the mod forum :)
cyanberryio
424 posts
Joined August 2008
cyanberryio
WARNING: This map needs over 8 Star Priority BEFORE it should be considered for ranking/bubbling
Please focus your modding on maps which have higher star priorities first!
Users: Please make sure you check out people's maps. Aim for those with Star Priority of 8 or less (the lower the better really) so we can really make sure all maps with potential get their chance in the spotlight. Even if you don't feel confident enough to point out errors, if you enjoyed playing the map then leave a comment and a star (no kudosu required!).
Contradiction? :P

anyways, I prefer to look at unnoticed maps. :)
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
Can you normally see bubble/star/etc. icons when you post in a beatmap forum?
FurukawaPan
649 posts
Joined August 2008
FurukawaPan

Alex0686 wrote:

WARNING: This map needs over 8 Star Priority BEFORE it should be considered for ranking/bubbling
Please focus your modding on maps which have higher star priorities first!
Users: Please make sure you check out people's maps. Aim for those with Star Priority of 8 or less (the lower the better really) so we can really make sure all maps with potential get their chance in the spotlight. Even if you don't feel confident enough to point out errors, if you enjoyed playing the map then leave a comment and a star (no kudosu required!).
Contradiction? :P

anyways, I prefer to look at unnoticed maps. :)
Not at all.

The first message is aimed ONLY at BAT's. The 2nd message is aimed ONLY at regular users.

Think of a beatmap factory, and the maps are rolling along the conveyor belt. Regular users test out the maps and star them up before they reach a BAT who stamps it with a seal of approval (BUBBLE) and another to ship it out (RANK)
Wizard Of Orz
965 posts
Joined May 2008
Wizard Of Orz
3 BAT stars, then 1 bubble, then 1 heart
ouch 5 BAT's in total unless previous BAT's who star are allowed to bubble or rank

Ranking is gonna take long
Real1
968 posts
Joined September 2008
Real1
I prefer the old system. And by old system, I mean the one without kudosu. And honestly, no matter the star priority, BATs don't look at my maps without me requesting it. I have a map that's been bubbled for than a month with 14 priority, yet maps below that get ranked/looked at before.

I guess I'm a minority, but I like the likes of old. :)
AlbeyAmakiir
2 posts
Joined March 2008
AlbeyAmakiir
I agree. Old system better. I was always confused by the addition of Kudosu.
I recently (a few months ago) took a stab at making my own beatmap and, when submitting, I was unsure as to which forum to put mine in. Both basically seemed to be waiting for people to play and comment back. With the kudosu system, though, it didn't matter. No one would look at my beatmap till I had commented on a bunch of people's beatmaps with useful advice. But I couldn't see how I could really do that. As good as I thought my effort was, I don't think I have the experience to give useful advice. Also, I don't have a whole lot of time to spend on testing other people's maps, especially when I risk having someone else put up the points I want to make first, thus wasting my time. So I didn't bother and my beatmap is now floating in limbo somewhere.
I think kudosu just adds confusion and frustration for those who have not yet delved into beatmap creation.
peppy
19,318 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
AlbeyAmakiir: you don't understand the system. or maybe the forum needs to be changed so star priority sorting is only enabled for BATs by default? people WILL look at your map when it has low star priority. If they like it, they will increase the star priority until it is high enough to be looked at by a BAT.

The "old" system was not sustainable.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

AlbeyAmakiir wrote:

I agree. Old system better. I was always confused by the addition of Kudosu.
I recently (a few months ago) took a stab at making my own beatmap and, when submitting, I was unsure as to which forum to put mine in. Both basically seemed to be waiting for people to play and comment back. With the kudosu system, though, it didn't matter. No one would look at my beatmap till I had commented on a bunch of people's beatmaps with useful advice. But I couldn't see how I could really do that. As good as I thought my effort was, I don't think I have the experience to give useful advice. Also, I don't have a whole lot of time to spend on testing other people's maps, especially when I risk having someone else put up the points I want to make first, thus wasting my time. So I didn't bother and my beatmap is now floating in limbo somewhere.
I think kudosu just adds confusion and frustration for those who have not yet delved into beatmap creation.
I really don't understand your logic here.

Since when did having kudosu mean your maps will be modded?

Even before I had the whopping 31 KD I have now (0 of which are spent), people modded my maps. Althogh they are terrible, they did attract some attention (though it was somewhat forced ;P).

I don't know how things were before, but kudosu gives me incentive to mod others' maps, even if I only gain a spot in the top 50 (which is probably as good as I'm gonna get here xD).
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann

peppy wrote:

or maybe the forum needs to be changed so star priority sorting is only enabled for BATs by default?
Yes. If the goal is for non-bats to look at low-priority maps, perhaps the sorting should be reversed entirely for non-bats in that case
Starrodkirby86
osu! Alumni
3,739 posts
Here since the beginning
Starrodkirby86
I got this when replying (On the post icon area):
WARNING: This map needs over 8 Star Priority BEFORE it should be considered for ranking/bubbling
Please focus your modding on maps which have higher star priorities first!
But I'm modding a map with less than 8 stars? (0 to be exact)

Just pointing it out.

Also, quick question, doesn't this mean you can simply use 12 of your kudosu and earn 8 SP already? Or does it have to be other types of stars?
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Starrodkirby86 wrote:

I got this when replying (On the post icon area):
WARNING: This map needs over 8 Star Priority BEFORE it should be considered for ranking/bubbling
Please focus your modding on maps which have higher star priorities first!
But I'm modding a map with less than 8 stars? (0 to be exact)

Just pointing it out.
Right. It's a notice. I think the WARNING text should be removed.

Starrodkirby86 wrote:

Also, quick question, doesn't this mean you can simply use 12 of your kudosu and earn 8 SP already? Or does it have to be other types of stars?
Read:

peppy wrote:

now at LEAST 3 BAT members must first star the map, or expend their kudosu
Also,

LuigiHann wrote:

peppy wrote:

or maybe the forum needs to be changed so star priority sorting is only enabled for BATs by default?
Yes. If the goal is for non-bats to look at low-priority maps, perhaps the sorting should be reversed entirely for non-bats in that case
^^ I like this. I normally jump to the last few pages anyway.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
No one has answered my question.

Do you (non-BAT people) normally see the icons when you post in a beatmap forum?
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
I also agree to a different sorting method.

@Echo: If there's supposed to be a star/whatever at the top of the person's post that starred it, I see nothing.

EDIT: Besides the first post of a topic, that is.
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy
So we need at least 3 gold stars in our maps?
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

JInxyjem wrote:

So we need at least 3 gold stars in our maps?
That's what it looks like to me.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
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Echo
Pick a map that with SP < 8 which should show the warning text. Then find a map with SP > 8 and see what is in the same place.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

Echo wrote:

Pick a map that with SP < 8 which should show the warning text. Then find a map with SP > 8 and see what is in the same place.
Both look the same to me.

In the posting field:

You will gain 1 kudosu for this post if it is deemed as helpful by the map's creator.

You have not yet given this beatmap a star. If you like what you see, and want to help this beatmap get attention, then shoot a star in its direction!
[*Box to check to star*] Star this map! (does not use kudos)

Stars obtained so far: *list of stars here*


At the top of the topic:

Stars Obtained: *list of stars here*

Current Priority: *Whatever it is*
You can earn kudosu by helping mod this map! You will gain 1 kudosu if you mod this map.
peppy
19,318 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
Read the first post. The restriction is only placed on BATs.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

peppy wrote:

Read the first post. The restriction is only placed on BATs.
I saw that, which is why I was confused that Echo was asking his question :/
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy
So we dont need 3 BATs to mod a map in order to get it bubbled?
Maybe like 1 for modding and 1 for checking over and bubbling?
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o

JInxyjem wrote:

So we dont need 3 BATs to mod a map in order to get it bubbled?
Maybe like 1 for modding and 1 for checking over and bubbling?
I think you are way overthinking this :P

The only thing that has changed in the ranking process is that maps will need 8 stars in order to be considered for bubbling/ranking. Everything else is the same.
Jeffro
680 posts
Joined October 2008
Jeffro
How about using your own kudosu, if you need 8 sp to get ranked I can just shoot a few stars at my map?

Wouldn't the meaning be useless then?
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Jeffro wrote:

How about using your own kudosu, if you need 8 sp to get ranked I can just shoot a few stars at my map?

Wouldn't the meaning be useless then?
That doesn't mean it will be ranked.

(Is there a limit to how often you can star your own map?)
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
K2J
872 posts
Here since the beginning
K2J
If 8 is the limit, there should probably be a checkbox on Pending that lists only those below 8.

Otherwise, I think this might speed things up a bit. Hopefully. I haven't really been mapping/modding for the past month and a half, so I don't quite have a handle on the situation, but I don't think 8 will be too hard to obtain...
DeletedUser_39338
DeletedUser_39338
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
K2J
872 posts
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K2J
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
DeletedUser_39338
DeletedUser_39338
Probably not, but they should focus on the maps below 8 stars I think.
Jeffro
680 posts
Joined October 2008
Jeffro

foLn wrote:

Probably not, but they should focus on the maps below 8 stars I think.
8 is not always enough though, if you have 8 sp you'll appear on page 6 O_O

My map is 33 sp already and I have seen maps with 51 sp xD
Pasonia
osu! Alumni
1,199 posts
Joined October 2008
Pasonia
Hmm, I only just noticed this change to the system due in no small effing part to my schoolwork.

For those who're coming into this thread from Page 3 (for whatever reason), my intepretation is that the new kudosu system is based on community help. Get your map noticed by players and BATs, and that will get your work ranked.

For the new mappers, this isn't hard at all. Chances are, if you're new to mapping, you're also new to the game; you can therefore provide your perspectives on the different maps here in your way. Remember, any input on a person's map that goes beyond "This is nice" is always appreciated; even if the mapper doesn't recognise it, at least you placed effort into posting a suggestion that could potentially improve a map.

For that alone, you get a thumbs up no matter what.

That said...

(checks star points of his own maps)
(keels over and faints)
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
I'm just going to throw out there that when ever I have a pending map, I often exchange mods with any and every user, regardless of their status or priority stars. I've been told numerous times that this method is unfair because my modding weighs heavier than a regular user modding my map, and could easily result in a low-priority bubble if I feel the map deserves it. Regardless of the new system here, I will most likely not change the way I do that just because my "you mod me I mod you" courtesy mentality has been working quite well unless somebody specifically tells me that this is breaking new rules at hand and should be stopped.
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi
i know im gonna get flamed for this, but i thought of a suggestion. there should be around 5-10 BAT's that come on everyday right?

what if each BAT takes a look at 1 bubbled map each on the pending forum everyday. doing this would minimize complaining i think. if bats arent active enough, maybe it's time to find some new bats aswell?

if you wonder how your map is gonna get bubbled, there are some really active bats that mod's alot of maps so don't worry about that. just get enough stars and move it to pending.

before all BAT's comes and say "we got a life" etc etc, this was just a suggestion. i think it's pretty doable.
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy
BAT stars have a reduced value of 2 SP (previously 3) to even things out. The idea is that BAT members should not have much more of a say than regular users as to which beatmaps should get all the attention. It also means two BATs can no longer "snipe" a specific map for ranking.

So you mean the old BAT stars before this update is still 3? Bacause Pasonia's and my maps are all still with 3 point BAT stars.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o

JInxyjem wrote:

So you mean the old BAT stars before this update is still 3? Bacause Pasonia's and my maps are all still with 3 point BAT stars.
Yep, just like how stars of BATs before they became BATs are still 1
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