forum

DJ S3RL - T-T-Techno (feat. Jesskah) [Osu|Taiko]

posted
Total Posts
205
show more
Kibbleru

Aldwych wrote:

Also not sure if this will get disqualified, but sometimes, SB load is too high and goes to red on me :

00:19:407 : 16.70x
01:43:193 5.22x
02:16:150 5.01x etc..

Also sometimes it seems you're moving / rotating objects and there's no needs which possible increase the sb load for nothing.
Anyway interesting SB and it's rare to see hardwork SB too.
its a guideline that should be strictly followed, but for complicated SBs like this one, you cant do much about it

also this map is fucking amazing. gj
Saoji
Congratz !!
lolcubes
Pretty good taiko maps.

But the background, dat aspect ratio, nooooooooooooooooooooooo ;_;.

Yours:
vs
How it actually should be:
Myxo

Reasons for Disqualification


  1. In the section from 02:16:064 to 02:26:693 the hitsounding doesn't give proper feedback. Especially in the higher diffs, it's difficult to keep tapping to the beat due to the hitsounding. While Piano Hitsounds are a good idea here, you need to add a quiet (but still hearbale) Hitnormal.
  2. The section from 02:54:464 to 02:58:578 in Technonationalism uses exaggerated, nonsensical SV, rhythm and hitsounding.
  3. Using a higher SV for this section is acceptable since it is the end of the map. A change of 0.5x is too much though, as the music doesn't change a lot from the section before.
02:54:464 (1,2) - The kickslider on the white tick makes no sense at all. Triplet rhythms starting on white ticks are not as intuitive and only work when there is something related in the music. This one is blatant overmapping though and must be avoided. Please use a rhythm similar to what you did in the previous section, for example http://puu.sh/gI6eL/9f37823bdf.jpg Same applies for 02:55:835 (1,2) and 02:57:207 (1,2) 02:54:893 (4,5,6,1) - The music doesn't call for a stream here, so the blue tick notes should be removed. Same applies for 02:56:264 (3,4,5,1) and 02:57:635 (3,4,5,1) - The Whistle in this section sounds like it is part of the song. Probably that's the reason why most of the modders didn't point out the additive mapping in this section. If you are going to change the rhythms as described above, you need to redo the Whistle usage anyways, but please avoid covering up wrong rhythms with hitsounding in the future.___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Additional Modding


[General]
  1. There are more notes with Piano Hitsounds that could use the quiet Hitnormal suggested in the Disqualification reason. Please go through all difficulties (with 0% Music Volume) and change it if you find clickable objects that only have a Piano Hitsound. Examples would be 00:22:064 (1) - , 00:22:407 - and so on in Technonationalism.
  2. The hitsound used at 01:10:407 (2) and many other places merges a lot with the music, so it doesn't give a lot of feedback to the players either. Please try to avoid using hitsounds that sound exactly like the sound they are following (without a hitnormal), it is no big difference to having no hitsound at all.
  3. Please also consider what lolcubes and other people wrote in the previous posts, about SB Load and Background.
[ Technonationalism]
  1. 00:31:321 (4,1) - The movement between these slider was unintuitive for me. Since 00:30:807 (2,3,4) alternate directions, you would expect 00:31:493 (1) to go from left to right. It's also hard to read since the sliders are all overlapping, so most players (that can still pass and play the map well enough, like me) will have problems here. I'd recommend you to create a more intuitive movement here.
  2. 00:46:921 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - Heavy NC spam like this pushes the HP very high and it makes the pattern harder to read. What about NCing in pairs, like this? http://puu.sh/gI82T/ad83d7edd8.jpg I know you did that later in the map and it would improve readability for this pattern too. Don't forget to fix the color haxing if you change it.
  3. 01:05:435 (1,2,3,4,1) - These jumps are bigger than the 1/2-jumps in your previous section, although the music tones down. Please reduce these a bit. Same applies for 01:06:807 (1,2,3,4) - of course.
  4. 01:22:064 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - The jumps are from white to red ticks here instead of from red to white ticks, which is inconsistent to other similar patterns like 01:23:950 (1,2,1,2) for example. It makes much more sense to stress the white ticks by using jumps from red to white.
  5. 01:49:321 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Here it's exactly the opposite.. You got the jumps from white to red at 01:43:835 (1,2,3,4,5) and 01:46:064 (2,3,4,5,6,7) which makes sense with the background instrument, but it should be done consistently.
  6. 02:52:064 (2,3,4) - The triplet starting at the white tick is unintuitive and random, since you didn't use it before. It would be better to get rid of the blue tick note.
  7. 02:54:293 (2,1) - Even though this section should be rearranged / remapped due to the disqualify reason, I should mention that the spacing between these objects is oddly low. (1) is a strong note that should have a higher spacing, and it would also play a lot better since you got bigger spacings directly before: 02:53:778 (1,2,1,2) -
  8. 02:58:578 (1,1,1,1) - The music calms down very much here, so the huge spacings between these sliders feel out of place. They should be smaller, more similar to 02:59:092 (1,1,1) those spacings.
[ fanzhen's Extra]
  1. 00:36:293 (2,3) - ♥
  2. 01:09:550 (1,2,3,4) - It's hard to pretend that these sliders use 2.0x SV. They also seem exaggerated, since there are just equal drum sounds in the music that call or a stream rather than fast kick sliders.
[ wkyik's Insane]
  1. Good job, I'm just wondering why 01:07:835 (2,3) - are spaced like 1/2? You didn't do that for 01:06:464 (2,3) or 01:05:093 (2,3) so I would try something similar to that.
[ Chloe's Hard]
  1. Could use a higher AR though to make complex patterns and spacings better readable. What about simply using AR 8 ?
[ Normal]
  1. Well done, but the difficulty should be renamed to Advanced. There are so many reasons that make this much more difficult than a common Normal diff.. 01:54:121 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1) - Huge number of circles in a row combined with 1/2 and 3/2-gaps, small jumps / distance spacing changes, more or less drastical SV-changes, complicated movements, stacks under slidertails etc. It fits the spread well, since Chloe's Hard is also really difficult, but it is not suitable for a Normal difficulty.
[ Easy]
  1. In relation to the above, this should then be renamed to Normal. It's on the simple side, but it doesn't really matter.
  2. 01:08:864 (1,2,1) - Stacking those sliders' tails can easily cause misreads and it's not suitable for the lowest diff.
  3. 02:10:578 (1,2,3) - Again, confusing stacking, combined with a really sharp movement. Please find a more straigt-forward solution for both patterns, avoiding stacks and sharp movements.
Good luck!
Topic Starter
Ulysses
thank you so much
Kotori-Chan
That DQ... ;-;

gogogogo for re-ranked :33

Map is so good masterpiece~ that storyboard,hitsounds,, and all,,, SO GOOD

This needs to be ranked ! <3
Shoko84
How can this be unranked T_T
Moooo_old_1
Really unranked? wew... for that reason I hate the new map rank system >:(
kouzuki_karen
rip

good song and map, hope it gets requalified
yf_bmp

nold_1702 wrote:

thank you so much
Saoji
In technonationalism.
02:58:578 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - This is amazing nold, don't change it :c

On the other hand, I don't know if its just me, but i can't make sense of this 02:56:264 (3,4,5) - and 02:57:635 (3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - and 02:52:064 (2,3,4) - Feels a bit wrong and too sudden. I agree that this might need a fix.

After that, I kinda disagree with the mod about Technonationalism. As example

anyways, but please avoid covering up wrong rhythms with hitsounding in the future.
Well...It this situation it's awesome so... Please keep doing it :c

01:22:064 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - The jumps are from white to red ticks here instead of from red to white ticks, which is inconsistent to other similar patterns like 01:23:950 (1,2,1,2) for example. It makes much more sense to stress the white ticks by using jumps from red to white.
I didnt notice it while playing (and I played it more than once), wtf. who cares? Oo

etc.
Aldwych
Sad this DQ affects Taiko too, hope getting this requalified as soon as possible.

Gl! ;)
PatZar
ha me pls :(
i just want to FC tenchoblah
ztrot
Hello, I'm going to just make this statement once, while the hit sounds might be a issue for some. I really didn't feel much of a change adjusting these as suggested. I did feel that making these adjustments while not changing much did cause my fingers to get off beat it felt artificial and unnatural. So that reason is a bit on the subjective side and that is fine, as most should know by now QAT can pull something back if it is subjective. What we can do as modders is try to give reasoning and proof that it works as is.

[Diff names]
I strongly suggest you keep your diff names as is the new star rating from what I can tell isn't even set in stone changing the diff names to reflect this gains nothing and ends up more of a band aid fix to a larger problem, and if you really think that simplistic easy is a normal the standards for what is easy needs to be cleared up further, this is a issue spanning across a large section of new maps and even more older maps suffer from clashing standards that have yet to be made as the official standard.

this is just my 2 cents on this set thanks for taking the time to read this.
Topic Starter
Ulysses
Beginning with replying the two disqualifying reasons. I agreed with the latter one since some other players such as Jordan and various of players reflected their opinions through reddit and disqus telling me that the last part seemed hard to understand so I realized covering a new track by hitsounding here is confusing to players and really wanted to change even before your disqualification. However, I disagree with your opinion on that part:
but please avoid covering up wrong rhythms with hitsounding in the future.
I am really sorry that you do not know how to create a new track by hitsounding, sometimes it is good and sometimes it is bad and I am sure I did quite good on parts 00:19:493 - 00:28:750 , 00:30:464 - 00:39:721 but not on 02:54:464 - 02:58:406. Thus, do not conclude creating new track is WRONG just because you do not know how to do nor can you understand what the new tracks stand for and then just blame they are WRONG. Many users liked my hitsound tracks, please I beg you do not use your only own standard to judge others thank you.
Additionally, I really beg to differ your first major disqualifying reason, explanation in ztrot's post expresses clearer so may you refer his post?

I will reply your 'Additional Modding' below , as they are only 'Additional Modding' please do not jump and scream when you see I rejected applying your suggestions.
The hitsound used at 01:10:407 (2) and many other places mergesa lot with the music, so it doesn't give a lot of feedback to the players either. Please try to avoid using hitsounds that sound exactly like the sound they are following (without a hitnormal), it is no big difference to having no hitsound at all.
Hello, I do not dare to bet you did not check the hitsound carefully but this mod is illegitimate. You claimed that there is no hitnormal at '01:10:407 (2) and many other places' but let us see, what is this:

Isn't it a non-silence hitnormal? And most importantly, there are two hitsounds at 01:10:407 and 'many other places' separately, and the music at those timings do only play two tracks which are bass and a similar but not exact sound to my hitwhitle, thus the hitsounds quite stand out and are not even 'no big difference to having no hitsounding at all'.

Please also consider about SB Load
I know you are not familiar to SBing but at least please may you read Kibbleru's post before posting? Overloading for only 0.3 seconds is never a problem and this is NOT avoidable.

00:31:321 (4,1) - The movement between these slider was unintuitive for me. Since 00:30:807 (2,3,4) alternate directions, you would expect 00:31:493 (1) to go from left to right. It's also hard to read since the sliders are all overlapping, so most players (that can still pass and play the map well enough, like me) will have problems here. I'd recommend you to create a more intuitive movement here.
I did not follow your view but remapped the whole part ,start from 00:30:464 to 00:39:550. Sorry.

01:05:435 (1,2,3,4,1) - These jumps are bigger than the 1/2-jumps in your previous section, although the music tones down. Please reduce these a bit. Same applies for 01:06:807 (1,2,3,4) - of course.
Your logic of mapping is only to follow the volume to space objects but never premeditate other factors, right? Other than the volume, the sound on 01:05:435 (1,2,3,4) are brisker and the jumps are not that hard as you imagine.

01:22:064 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - The jumps are from white to red ticks here instead of from red to white ticks, which is inconsistent to other similar patterns like 01:23:950 (1,2,1,2) for example. It makes much more sense to stress the white ticks by using jumps from red to white.
The jumps are from red ticks to white ticks here instead of from white to red ticks. Radically, it is all about the feeling to a song but no common standard to judge whether the jump should begin at white tick nor should the jump begin at red tick. My view, is to begin the jump at red tick, so as your contrary view, please do not use your own view to destroy one's creation.

01:49:321 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Here it's exactly the opposite.. You got the jumps from white to red at 01:43:835 (1,2,3,4,5) and 01:46:064 (2,3,4,5,6,7) which makes sense with the background instrument, but it should be done consistently.
Same as what I wrote on above.

02:52:064 (2,3,4) - The triplet starting at the white tick is unintuitive and random, since you didn't use it before. It would be better to get rid of the blue tick note.
How can I get rid of blue tick notes while placing triplets? Is a triplet a triplet without 3/4 blue tick note? Besides, there is no rule district mapper to use a consistent rhythm from the beginning to the end of a song, why using different rhythm to delight players is a sin?

02:58:578 (1,1,1,1) - The music calms down very much here, so the huge spacings between these sliders feel out of place. They should be smaller, more similar to 02:59:092 (1,1,1) those spacings.
You do not understand this logic perfectly. The piano sounds there sound 'random' so I placed random jumps , that is all. Piano=/= no jump.

Chloe, fanzhen and wkyik permitted me to apply mods on their difficulties, so I do now.

[fanzhen's X-Tra]
00:36:293 (2,3) - ♥
Eventually you understand how to appreciate other's creation, thank god.

01:09:550 (1,2,3,4) - It's hard to pretend that these sliders use 2.0x SV. They also seem exaggerated, since there are just equal drum sounds in the music that call or a stream rather than fast kick sliders.
It would be harder to pretend if fanzhen map streams here as this difficulty does not include any other stream and more importantly, 2.0x SV is not hard to recognize , maybe it is just due to your lack of experience on playing, other players can recognize this clearly on their first play, please ask rrtyui if you doubt.

[wkyik's Insane]
I'm just wondering why 01:07:835 (2,3) - are spaced like 1/2? You didn't do that for 01:06:464 (2,3) or 01:05:093 (2,3) so I would try something similar to that.
It is an insane and is already clear enough to let players determine whether this is a 1/1 spacing or a 1/2 spacing.

[Normal]
Well done :arrow: WOW//, but the difficulty should be renamed to Advanced. There are so many reasons that make this much more difficult than a common Normal diff.. 01:54:121 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1) - Huge number of circles in a row combined with 1/2 and 3/2-gaps, small jumps / distance spacing changes, more or less drastical SV-changes, complicated movements, stacks under slidertails etc. It fits the spread well, since Chloe's Hard is also really difficult, but it is not suitable for a Normal difficulty.
See ztrot's post, thanks in advance.

[Easy]
In relation to the above, this should then be renamed to Normal. It's on the simple side, but it doesn't really matter. 01:08:864 (1,2,1) - Stacking those sliders' tails can easily cause misreads and it's not suitable for the lowest diff.
02:10:578 (1,2,3) - Again, confusing stacking, combined with a really sharp movement. Please find a more straigt-forward solution for both patterns, avoiding stacks and sharp movements.
See ztrot's post;
stacking is allowed in easy difficulty, especially this kind of stacking is really easy to read.

Good Luck!
You as well.
Loctav
I find it fun that you assume that this DQ results of the incapability of understanding this beatmap of one single individual, whereas every disqualification is a decision by three or more members of the team. Your conclusive talking is disturbing. You are free to disagree with certain things, but any assumption that the person posting here are "unfamiliar" or blatant incapable to understand this beatmap is rude and wrong. You have no right to say that, as you judge upon assumptions.

Oh snap, I said "wrong".
Topic Starter
Ulysses
In advance, I am not trying to create any drama here, so please hopefully stop after this clarification.
Greetings Loctav, I apologize if I offended your team. That 'Additional Modding' part is written by an only person who is Desperate-kun, and the DQ result and its reason are determined by various of QAT members, I think I am not wrong? My statement was, the 'Additional Modding' part is full of misunderstanding and 'unfamiliar' to some concepts. As you can see Desperate-kun even believe I did not use a proper hitnormal at 01:10:407 (2) , which that note has two different hitsounds and a proper hitnormal, it proves Desperate-kun was really mess while modding this map.
Additionally, I disagree the former DQ reason, comparing to only maximum of 4 QAT members, I have been finding over 30 testers who are #3 - #30000 to play the map and I do not find they have difficulties on playing that part due to 'unproper feedback of hitsounding'. Maps are for players, not for QAT, hence why QAT can unrank a map due to unproper of hitsounding feedback in a part which has proper feedback of hitsounding to players? My view in this DQ reason can simplified as below:
  1. 02:16:064: This part has really enough hitsounding feedback to players, as I wrote above.
  2. The keysounds are already single sounds at every single clicking separate objects, thus they are rankable. Silenced hitnormal with a 90% whistle / finish hitsound has no problem, what if I change the whistle/ finish to hitnormal? They sound the same.
  3. A non-silence hitnormal would definitely destroy aesthetic feeling of that part, since if I want the keysound/ piano sounds play a volume of 90%, the hitnormal would sound 90% loud as well.
I do not know how QAT determine whether an object has enough hitsounding feedback or no enough, but views by players are ' This is enoguh.' A single softhitnormal with only 20% volume appears nearly every maps nowadays and QATs find them normal and see them as objects which have 'enough hitsounding feedback' , so why not keysound with much higher volume?
Topic Starter
Ulysses
Thank you so much for helping with my map.
Lust
That should conclude the discussion then. Poke me when you want to move this set forward, nold.

EDIT: Unlocked on the mapper's request. That was a quick turn around eh? Good luck with requalification!
ToifAmri
gg :)
lightr
I lost my mind with these hitsound.
It's awesome and intoxicating.
quiz-chan_DELETED
honestly, no changes were necessary. why can i (as a 1000pp player) say that nothing was really misleading or unbelievably hard?

the map was better the way it was before
of course, #opinions
Ciyus Miapah
:/
Timorisu
The hitsounds ARE a problem though. They don't give enough feedback to stay in tact and could thus result in random 100s. I only played the Insane diff though, but it has the same problem in the triple section. I don't get the problem about adding a slightly more responsive hitnormal...
Saoji
..
Topic Starter
Ulysses
As some of the QATs wish, I added soft-hitnormal10,11,12,13,14,16 which are audible but also not the horribly noisy one provided by some QATs, instead I found a lower pitch but still audible clock-tic tock sound, and Desperate-kun, who disqualified this map, permitted with this hitnormal usage, this map is therefore ready to be qualified again.
I changed does not mean I agree with your former DQ reason, however rather than throwing all my effort on this map away is stupider than changing this, plus I already found the rightest solution that do not affect the aesthetic feeling that much comparing to your solution, thus I decided to change. @Timorisu, you get random 100s in Insane does not imply the hitsounding feedback causes problem nor is the feedback not enough to players, it is just because <input stupid and totally weightless "you just suck at this game, because if you can not play this or understand this, you obviously suck" argument here>

To sum up, all the issues were 'fixed', everyone please sit down and wait for the re-qualification, as long as BNs are still wiling to help.
AruOtta
I checked everything and that seems rankable to me

So bubble :3
AruOtta
Rebubble (since it have been breaked because of a diff name update)
Kibbleru

Yales wrote:

Yep. GG BN and thank you.
don't u mean qat? /me runs
Saoji

Kibbleru wrote:

don't u mean qat? /me runs
Ha, fixed. xD Whatever, le't just sit down and wait the requalifquation. The message was clear enough anyway.
quiz-chan_DELETED
disappointing..

but at least you keep at it. go for it!

EDIT: seems like my version was outdated.. good luck!

PS: the log you requested
SPOILER
17:30 nold_1702: hi
17:30 nold_1702: why disappointing?
17:30 nold_1702: I can still change
17:30 Lizzy: i liked technonat. more like it was before
17:31 nold_1702: hello :D
17:31 Lizzy: yo!
17:31 Lizzy: felt much more engaging
17:31 nold_1702: but
17:31 nold_1702: I didn't change much
17:31 nold_1702: except the last part
17:31 nold_1702: you can update :o
17:31 nold_1702: :p
17:31 Lizzy: 00:30:464 - are you sure??
17:32 Lizzy: 00:31:321 (4) - hitnormal on end on purpose?
17:32 nold_1702: I am sure
17:32 nold_1702: I changed them back
17:32 nold_1702: 00:30:464
17:32 nold_1702: I didnt change hitsound of (4)
17:32 nold_1702: but moved its coordinate
17:33 Lizzy: just to make sure, redownloading
17:45 Lizzy: i've had a disconnect..
17:47 Lizzy: yes you're right
17:47 Lizzy: had a disconnect, sorry for that..
17:47 nold_1702: :D
17:47 nold_1702: no problem!
17:47 Lizzy: anyway
17:56 Lizzy: ok back
17:56 Lizzy: so
17:56 Lizzy: still feels a little odd, the intro parts
17:56 Lizzy: 00:30:978 - i swear something was different around here
17:57 nold_1702: 00:31:321 (4) - this object was moved
17:58 nold_1702: you really looked at this diff for many times I guess
17:58 nold_1702: how come you can recognize!
17:58 Lizzy: I've played it a hundred thousand times
17:58 Lizzy: not like it's hard heh
17:58 Lizzy: well, it's challenging and engaging
17:59 Lizzy: normally i delete things like this, but i decided to keep it just for what it is!
17:59 Lizzy: also
17:59 Lizzy: your efforts on hitsound and SB, they're astronomical
17:59 nold_1702: I am trying to find out the old verison before I changed
17:59 Lizzy: and not only that, look at those frigging inherited sections!
17:59 nold_1702: and I will then change it back
18:00 Lizzy: eye2.png - honestly, i don't get this little hoe
18:00 Lizzy: it's so out of place
18:00 nold_1702: haha
18:01 Lizzy: 02:54:550 - the additive hitsounds here are kinda loud
18:01 Lizzy: they hardly even blend in at first
18:04 nold_1702: please save this as log and post on thread

===

hey, you down there! over here!

Topic Starter
Ulysses

Lizzy wrote:

disappointing..

but at least you keep at it. go for it!
I do not disappoint anyone who was used to fond/ used to fond of this map. Many players reflected to me that the remapped parts (not the last part) are worse than before thus I changed back, no worries.

EDIT:
-eye2 is interesting to me. It splits from eye.jpg , and I tried to sb it as a creature, but do not know if it really looks like.
-lower the volume on the first pattern
Hollow Wings
qualified.
meii18

Hollow Wings wrote:

requalified.
Myxo
Congratulations!
Kyubey

Desperate-kun wrote:

reCongratulations!
PatZar

Kyubey wrote:

Desperate-kun wrote:

reCongratulations!
BeatofIke
Congratulations for the re-qualification nold_1702.
Nyukai

Kyubey wrote:

Desperate-kun wrote:

reCongratulations!
Topic Starter
Ulysses
thank you all, but why i cannot view this map in the qualified map list?
http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist?m=-1&r=11&g=0&la=0
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply