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Touhou as Source

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Total Posts
20
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Stefan
Well, the thing is that I wonder if Touhou, the game serie, is viable as Source for arrangments, Remixes, etc... Mostly the Artists for these Songs are Bands and productions like ALiCE'S EMOTiON, IOSYS, Halozy, Demetori or Silver Forest (Of course they are other well-known Artists for this Topic but I had them in my Mind) I often read that the Source is the Game, the Movie and/or the Serie from where the Song comes.


Let's take this Song as example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/82259 (The original is the theme of Cirno, which is very obvious. But setting Touhou as Source is completly wrong and would mislead. And so that, the Mapper set Touhou into the Tags and put the better way of Source in the place)

Then let's look at this Map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/59049 (Honestly, this Song has very little similarities to the Original and sounds more like a own interpretation of the original Theme)

Another thing I wonder: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/24304 If possible, someone should tell me if this is a original Song or just a "Fan-Made" aka Mash-Up made by someone. Because here there isn't Touhou as Source but BMS, and I guess this is the Game from where the Song Second Heaven actually comes.



I do not know if ZUN is the only composer to all Themes of Touhou. However, as long the Remix/Arrangment does not appear somewhere in any Touhou Game, it has nothing to do in the Source and should be moved to the Tags.
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin
Well in my opinion it's like: The rhythm was created by ZUN, which appears in-game. Those bands are making remixes of a rhythm which appears in-game, therefor we set the source as Touhou because the rhythm still remains.
/if you don't understand, ignore, i could be wrong/
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Stefan

Alpaka wrote:

Well in my opinion it's like: The rhythm was created by ZUN, which appears in-game. Those bands are making remixes of a rhythm which appears in-game, therefor we set the source as Touhou because the rhythm still remains.
/if you don't understand, ignore, i could be wrong/
That's actually true but Remixes should affect the Source. DJ Genericname - Dear You does not have Higurashi as Source but we all know the actual artist and the Source of the Original. Yeah.. I know that other Examples shouldn't be overused but it's still a good comparison.
BCI
1,081 posts
Joined May 2011
BCI
I totally agree with you husbandu
also we have Akiyama Uni as an official rearranger (arranges appears in SWR) and composer of some themes (Suika's theme), in that cause we also should leave Touhou in Sourse
bug sniper
27 posts
Joined May 2012
bug sniper
If we can eventually have multiple sources, that might be the best solution. Otherwise, I'm fine with leaving Touhou as a tag, and the arranger as a source, only if we can do the same with all the songs that have already been approved. Otherwise, I'd prefer to keep the status quo of having Touhou as the artist, to maintain a bit of consistency.
Hanyuu
2,223 posts
Joined February 2009
Hanyuu
What else would be the source for all those songs in your idea. I kinda agree labeling everything as touhou might be indirect related to touhou(game), since its a remix or something else. But what other sources do you have in mind? Do you want to label every touhou remix after their comiket market release if it came from there or their remixers website if there is any? Usually those things went into tags before i think. Writing the arranger into the source seems weird to me too because if you want to mention them they should go into the artist field if anything..

I kinda see your idea not labeling any song "touhou" if it is not in the "touhou game" but since it is TOUHOU after all lol... wow what a sentence so much touhou. Anyways i think just keeping the source as it is would be the easiest solution. And its been like that anyways. Having 100 or more different sources for the same "origin" of song seems a bit ugh. I think its better to add more tags and more details like rearranger, release date/place, circle, album, etc all those stuffs into the tags. If that was your idea, to make typing that in to search songs.. or i dont know what other benefit this would have.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Hanyuu wrote:

What else would be the source for all those songs in your idea.
the name of the album most likely.

though I think this change is to nitpickish, as putting touhou in the tags instead of putting it as a source doesn't change anything for searching the map.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Stefan

Hanyuu wrote:

What else would be the source for all those songs in your idea. I kinda agree labeling everything as touhou might be indirect related to touhou(game), since its a remix or something else. But what other sources do you have in mind? Do you want to label every touhou remix after their comiket market release if it came from there or their remixers website if there is any? Usually those things went into tags before i think.
I didn't have in my mind to have some weird, special or new things as source. It's more that the validity should have been hold and personally I absolutely see no problem to move it into the Tags. (As Tanzklaue said)

Hanyuu wrote:

Writing the arranger into the source seems weird to me too because if you want to mention them they should go into the artist field if anything..
Uhm.. I didn't mentioned to move the arranger to the Source. Because this would lead this that ZUN would be ALWAYS the Arists and the Source comes from IOSYS, Yellow Zebra, Silver Forest, etc. and this wouldn't work well since ZUN didn't took part on these Remixes, etc. They took the Rhythm of the originals, yes but nothing else.

iirc Arranger like IOSYS got whole Albums and putting them as Source would be incorrect since Albums should not be used for that.
Yuzeyun
7,646 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
ZUN is the source of all these mixes if you want to know, without him there would be no touhou arranges [/what]

also if you leave Touhou in Source, that's too vague, since the whole series has 20 games. using the tags can compensate this but not everybody do this, sadly. for smaller game series, people use the number (for example if a Gran Turismo 4 song map appears here, I'm 95% sure the source will be Gran Turismo 4 and 80% sure for GT4 in tags) and sometimes the name (Different names for the same game, such as Ratchet Deadlocked which also is Ratchet & Clank 4th in Japan, or Ratchet Gladiator in Europe, would be confusing though) of the game. Some Touhou maps have been ranked with the full name in source.

Let's say I only want "Touhou 8" maps. I search for "Touhou 8" in the search box (because I don't know the full game name), and end up with a shitload of maps. I use quotes and end up with 2 maps, right now. I'm definitely certain a lot more maps from this game have been mapped and ranked, either ZUN or Arranged. (Just search for "Imperishable Night" and you end up with 30 ranked mapsets. "Eiyashou" gives 5.)


The best for me would be including the full title that way (Example will be Touhou 4) : Touhou 4 - Lotus Land Story and putting gensoukyou into tags.

brb getting pwned by Kurumi on lunatic
Frostmourne
osu! Alumni
3,733 posts
Joined November 2009
Frostmourne
no change pls~

it's good as is :|
Cyclohexane
osu! Alumni
4,568 posts
Joined May 2009
Cyclohexane
I don't see why we should be specific about it.

It's basically the same thing for bemani-related stuff: you put the series in tags, and the precise game and genre in the tags. Making metadata more complicated is just making it more obnoxious when sorting through stuff.
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour

Frostmourne wrote:

no change pls~

it's good as is :|
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Stefan
So you find that something wrong should be maintained instead of moving a word into the Tags (which won't make any difference by searching them)?

Anyway I find Gezo's Idea about to use the full Title of each Touhou Game not bad at all.
Yuzeyun
7,646 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
Don't forget I mentioned that the english title would be in source, and japanese name is in tags @Stefan
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Stefan
Yeah yeah I didn't overread that. :P
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

_Gezo_ wrote:

ZUN is the source of all these mixes if you want to know, without him there would be no touhou arranges [/what]

also if you leave Touhou in Source, that's too vague, since the whole series has 20 games. using the tags can compensate this but not everybody do this, sadly. for smaller game series, people use the number (for example if a Gran Turismo 4 song map appears here, I'm 95% sure the source will be Gran Turismo 4 and 80% sure for GT4 in tags) and sometimes the name (Different names for the same game, such as Ratchet Deadlocked which also is Ratchet & Clank 4th in Japan, or Ratchet Gladiator in Europe, would be confusing though) of the game. Some Touhou maps have been ranked with the full name in source.

Let's say I only want "Touhou 8" maps. I search for "Touhou 8" in the search box (because I don't know the full game name), and end up with a shitload of maps. I use quotes and end up with 2 maps, right now. I'm definitely certain a lot more maps from this game have been mapped and ranked, either ZUN or Arranged. (Just search for "Imperishable Night" and you end up with 30 ranked mapsets. "Eiyashou" gives 5.)


The best for me would be including the full title that way (Example will be Touhou 4) : Touhou 4 - Lotus Land Story and putting gensoukyou into tags.

brb getting pwned by Kurumi on lunatic
People usually put the full name in tags don't they?

The reason that you can't find much with "Touhou 8" as search criteria it's because since there's a space it treats it as 2 different search terms "Touhou" and "8" but since 8 is less than 3 characters long it ignores it, you're better off searching for the full name "Touhou Imperishable Night"
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
This thread has been abandoned. Also using the "song's game origin" as Source has been common practise across all games (BMS/Touhou/<inputanygamehere>). Marked as "No Change".
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu

Frostmourne wrote:

no change pls~

it's good as is :|
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
There's a reason this is in Finalized announcements :P
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu

CDFA wrote:

There's a reason this is in Finalized announcements :P
I know. Just quoting a good quote :D
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