forum

Using Translated Title in Romanised Title, when provided Title is Expression.

posted
Total Posts
6
Topic Starter
Blackener
As far as I know, there are maps whose Title is not the actual Title, but the Expression one.
+ beatmapsets/955816
+ beatmapsets/1237608

Since these contents are supposed to be parodies or contents made for fun, not the actual songs to map, I may assume that the content creator (Seth Everman in this case) did not provide Titles as an actual ones - The current titles are just Expressions telling what contents are about.

In fact, using Expression as Title is no problem at all, as long as it is in English.

Normally, if we have to romanise Title from other language, it has to be romanised word-by-word depending on its language (or we can use its Translation if officially provided).

The problem is, what if the content does not have the actual Title and its Expression is not officially translated either? Do we have to romanise the Expression (in its language) word-by-word as well?

I feel like this does not make much sense, since Expression is something used to communicate universally (but in different languages), not the Song Title that is proper noun and has to be strictly romanised.

Examples:
+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4ye2PuIQOs
Translation: "What If NCPO's Song Becomes Anime Song ?!"
Romanisation: "Ta Phleng Kho So Sho Pen Phleng Prakop Anime ?!"

+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDXHJmf3mgk
Translation: "Making 9 Genres Of Doraemon Song In 2 Minutes"
Romanisation: "Tham Phleng Doraemon 2 Nathi Hai Mi 9 Naew"

+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25BvqgBKlNo
Translation: "14 Famous Anime Intros You Can Recognise After Hearing"
Romanisation: "14 Intro Phleng Anime Dang Ti Khun Fang Leaw Tong Rong O"

+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeSkGSbojNI
Translation: "When The Ice Cream Truck Is In Front Of Molam Concert Stage"
Romanisation: "Muea Rot Aitim Ma Yu Na Wethi Molam"
Actually, there's a map using the same concept here: beatmapsets/1106271#taiko/2312084

As you can see, if I romanise the Expression directly, it would be a whole mess, and other players don't even understand what is going on with that map and discouraged to play because the title is not standardised.

Of course some conditions should be met, for example:
- It must be the expression telling what content is about, not just the phrase or group of words which makes it actual Title instead.
- Translation must be strictly accurate (confirmed by native speakers, etc.)

However, this should be in "Allowance", not a "Rule/Guideline" which translating expression is optional.

I would like to ask for your opinion, and what do you think so we can discuss if this is possible.
Thanks for reading!
realy0_
move to the rc section ?
Zelzatter Zero

realy0_ wrote:

move to the rc section ?
yeah I think RC subforum fit with this more.

tbh, I'm sort of indifferent about this, don't know others' opinion tho
Topic Starter
Blackener

realy0_ wrote:

move to the rc section ?
I don't think I'm ready for making changes right now, since RC section is something serious that I need to be careful with every word I write. Currently I just want to hear some opinion if my idea works or if there is any flaw in it.

(Edit: it was moved oh no)
pishifat

Blackener wrote:

As you can see, if I romanise the Expression directly, it would be a whole mess, and other players don't even understand what is going on with that map and discouraged to play because the title is not standardised.
this is basically how i feel when i see any non-english song title so im not sure why expressions get special treatment

Blackener wrote:

I feel like this does not make much sense, since Expression is something used to communicate universally (but in different languages), not the Song Title that is proper noun and has to be strictly romanised.
i also don't really agree with this. both expressions and songs try to communicate something to their audience
Topic Starter
Blackener

pishifat wrote:

this is basically how i feel when i see any non-english song title so im not sure why expressions get special treatment
Reply
(Maybe you mean "should get"? Since currently, they don't get any special treatment imo)

> They don't need THAT special treatment since mapping using contents from the video (undirect materials) is rare.
However, this should not be overlooked since mapping using undirect materials for ranked already exists.

For the reasons stated, RC should allow expression romanization to some extent. Or at the very least, this should not be totally prohibited and should be considered on a case-by-case basis.

> It should be understandable if players are discouraged to play beatmaps that provided Song Title is non-English. Expressions on the other hand, should not be forced to make Romanized Title just because "The content/content creator comes from the certain country" or "The original expression is from certain language". It is not how expressions work, they are not the same as Titles.

Titles "describe the songs" while Expressions tell "What songs/contents are about" which should be understood by all playerbases.


pishifat wrote:

i also don't really agree with this. both expressions and songs try to communicate something to their audience
Reply
> I agree that songs try to communicate something to their audience but not for expressions.

Expressions should not play a role to restrict the target audience because it's already the job of Songs, their Titles, and their inner contents.

For a clear example, if we turn Seth Everman's (or someone else's) video expressions to Thai, will all the contents be instantly made for Thai people? Hopefully not. As I said, expressions are used to communicate universally, because the key of expressions is the intention to do, not the language.

We should make players clearly understand what the contents are about and let them decide themselves if they consider playing.

Despite the reasons given, I see your points on why using translated expression still should not get extra treatments.
This thread is not intended to be a serious RC proposal at first, so there are certain flaws in my ideas.

Please archive this thread if necessary.
Thank you!
Please sign in to reply.

New reply